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THX on 35mm Tech IB preservation - HELP NEEDED (work in progress) — Page 6

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Interesting. So this cut could be yet another version we’ve not yet seen.

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Educate me, poita. What is channel registration?

That’s impossible, even for a computer.

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I think he’s referring to the color channels not lining up perfectly. So you get green or red outlines because the colors aren’t meshing correctly. I might have my terminology wrong, though.

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SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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poita said:

SilverWook said:

I haven’t had a close look, but it appears to be the same cut as the US sequence in the opening minutes, and not the weird ‘end at the start’ version, but I don’t currently have audio, so don’t know if the narrative is there.

Well, the film has been released twice in Italy, maybe the Italian cut we know only happened once, like a sort of test by WB to see if the film would have been more successful that way.
I’ll be sad if it’s not there but it will be easier for an American cut. What’s the very first shot of the film? Surely there is no Buck Rogers, right?

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SilverWook said:

… the bill is folded into the shape of a dendrite, which is the small object characters in the film labor to earn credits to buy …

When viewing that dendrite, it seemed to be a missed Monty Python opportunity. Well, almost missed . .

. . for a sideways Grant. 😃

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Did someone say… Grant??

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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 (Edited)

silverwheel said:

Educate me, poita. What is channel registration?

Here is an example of color registration issues:

https://someimage.com/A8lNp9P

This is a crop from the photo that THXITA posted on page 1. Look at the handle of the little tray. Do you see how the blue and red channels don’t line up in that particular area? That’s a common issue with IB prints since you’re essentially laying three images on top of each other in a film laboratory.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Here is the segment for Spaced Ranger:

https://we.tl/QqRu36MOrd

This is heavily compressed and in 720P the original files are much, much grainier 😃

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poita said:

Here is the segment for Spaced Ranger:

https://we.tl/QqRu36MOrd

This is heavily compressed and in 720P the original files are much, much grainier 😃

Thank you for the sample, Poita! Indeed the color registration is pretty bad… But I can’t imagine it being very difficult to fix. They used tools for the Wizard of Oz restoration to ensure that all the channels lined up perfectly - but then again, we probably don’t have access to those tools.

On the bright side, the print looks clean and the colors intact.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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They had the separate color elements for Oz though.

Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison to the 16mm.

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Well, if I’m not mistaken (and I very well could be), the raw scan would have the different color layers separated already since it scans each frame’s red blue and green channel. You’d just have to take those different layers and recombine them more precisely.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Mavimao said:

Well, if I’m not mistaken (and I very well could be), the raw scan would have the different color layers separated already since it scans each frame’s red blue and green channel. You’d just have to take those different layers and recombine them more precisely.

Well, if colour filters and light were perfect, then yes.
However the real world isn’t as kind, so separating out a layer perfectly, with no crosstalk between the other layers is very difficult from a print. You can do it ‘well’, but doing it perfectly is a lot of fiddling around. Then you have the problem of when to do it in the chain, if you do it before dirt and scratch removal, then the dirt and scratches become harder to repair, if you do it after, the separations are harder to isolate, so it takes a bit of work.

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Mavimao said:

poita said:

Here is the segment for Spaced Ranger:

https://we.tl/QqRu36MOrd

This is heavily compressed and in 720P the original files are much, much grainier 😃

Thank you for the sample, Poita! Indeed the color registration is pretty bad… But I can’t imagine it being very difficult to fix. They used tools for the Wizard of Oz restoration to ensure that all the channels lined up perfectly - but then again, we probably don’t have access to those tools.

On the bright side, the print looks clean and the colors intact.

I’m actually using the same tools pretty much, but they had the 3 strip seps, so it was a piece of cake, extracting the layers with no ghosting from a print is more tricky, but it certainly can be improved a lot, and in most scenes you wouldn’t notice it in motion. Just is more fiddly as the colour varies from frame to frame, so getting the layers perfectly extracted then adjusted and recombined it a lot more work than if working from a 3 strip scan.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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poita said:

Mavimao said:

Well, if I’m not mistaken (and I very well could be), the raw scan would have the different color layers separated already since it scans each frame’s red blue and green channel. You’d just have to take those different layers and recombine them more precisely.

Well, if colour filters and light were perfect, then yes.
However the real world isn’t as kind, so separating out a layer perfectly, with no crosstalk between the other layers is very difficult from a print. You can do it ‘well’, but doing it perfectly is a lot of fiddling around. Then you have the problem of when to do it in the chain, if you do it before dirt and scratch removal, then the dirt and scratches become harder to repair, if you do it after, the separations are harder to isolate, so it takes a bit of work.

I figured something had to give. Thanks for clarifying! And good luck with the rest of the restoration!

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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poita said:

Mavimao said:

poita said:

Here is the segment for Spaced Ranger:

https://we.tl/QqRu36MOrd

This is heavily compressed and in 720P the original files are much, much grainier 😃

Thank you for the sample, Poita! Indeed the color registration is pretty bad… But I can’t imagine it being very difficult to fix. They used tools for the Wizard of Oz restoration to ensure that all the channels lined up perfectly - but then again, we probably don’t have access to those tools.

On the bright side, the print looks clean and the colors intact.

I’m actually using the same tools pretty much, but they had the 3 strip seps, so it was a piece of cake, extracting the layers with no ghosting from a print is more tricky, but it certainly can be improved a lot, and in most scenes you wouldn’t notice it in motion. Just is more fiddly as the colour varies from frame to frame, so getting the layers perfectly extracted then adjusted and recombined it a lot more work than if working from a 3 strip scan.

Gotcha!

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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A longer sample is uploading via my snail-powered internet, should b up in two hours or so.

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 (Edited)

I love it! Thanks Poita. I understand your pain with slow uploads. It will be curious to see if there’s a narration (once we get the audio). I checked the DVD that was made some years ago from my TV broadcast and I can even see now what was cut.
In the TV broadcast, it starts with the car chase and narration, then you can clearly see a cut to the main titles (audio jumps), after the narrated titles it jumps again to 2’52" where THX is at work (skipping completely LUH opening the medicine box, the nevermind waves and THX bleeding after interrogation).
My bet on the audio from this 35mm is that there isn’t going to be any narration but it will be the same as the US cut. Probably the created the alternate cut seen on TV to make the story more appealing and understandable right off the bat. In fact, by skipping the “nevermind” waves and THX bleeding, the narration is quite straightforward, from THX being happy at work, then we meet LUH, then the drug evasion.
In short, Italy had both the US version and the still mysterious alternate cut where the film starts with the car chase and the whole story is a flashback. I don’t have the VHS so I’m not sure which Italian version ended up on it.

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Wow! This looks great. I can’t wait for the results!

That’s impossible, even for a computer.

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Quick Italian infographic comparison (TV broadcast vs 35mm)

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 (Edited)

I just noticed, TV broadcast is also missing from 21’00" to 22’20". So far this 35mm contains more parts than the Italian TV broadcast, I expect it to be longer too overall.

On a side note, I don’t know if Poita already applied any correction but colors are pretty good regardless of the registration problems. Whites are really great, compared to what I expected.

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 (Edited)

I did a basic white balance and black level adjustment, and a slight tweak to get the skintones in the ballpark.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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 (Edited)

Whoa! Holy crap… poita and thxita, please let me know how I can help finance. (unfortunately unable at the moment) Will do as soon as possible.
EDIT: Why can’t I contact poita?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Fanstastic! I honestly can’t get over how pristine this print is, especially considering its age. I guess it helps that it wasn’t a popular film so it didn’t get shown over and over again.

Also: I can’t say 100%, but it does look like the US cut, but with no Buck Rodgers. The rabbit hole goes further…

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.