DESPECIALIZED EDITION QUALITY CONTROL THREAD - REPORT ISSUES HERE — Page 6

For what it’s worth, I think ROTJ 2.5 is the most perfect of the trilogy so far. I look forward to SW and ESB coming up to the same level of quality so my quest for the original trilogy can finally be over.

-G

Oh, and that Bambi story is horrific BTW. I’m not surprised about Disney doing it - they have a long history of awful revisionism with their animated classics’ “restorations” but I would never have believed Mr. Harris would condone something like that.

Disney did not do it. That was not Disney’s decision. It was the restoration team’s. In fact, all of the Disney restorations went back to their original title sequences from before Disney had Buena Vista as a release arm. The early films were released by RKO and RKO is credited at the head of the films. While he didn’t state it directly, his tone when he spoke implied that this was not the way Disney wanted it, but they were over-ruled and the restoration team had complete freedom. But that could have just been what I inferred.

And that is why I brought up the notion of “ethics” in restoration. You obviously have a much more “purist” point of view. But it is not one shared by most people who do film restoration professionally. In Spartacus, they added back the scene with Tony Curtis and Lawrence Olivier about snails and oysters which was meant to imply that Crassus was bisexual. The Legion of Decency and Motion Picture Production Code objected and the scene was cut before the film’s release. Even though the filmmakers wanted it in there. The restoration team found the negative, but the soundtrack was lost for the scene. So they had Tony Curtis re-record his part. Since Olivier was dead they had Anthony Hopkins who was once Olivier’s protege to do an impression. Should they have not put the scene back just to replicate the original release even though it was not what the filmmakers wanted?

And I disagree with you about the quality of the LPP. When Darth goes up to Needah to ask about the shuttle, I noticed that Darth was considerably darker. I thought, “Wait, this wasn’t changed, was it?” I then went to your photo comparisons to see that it was in fact from the LPP. You also praised the Silver Screen Theatrical Version that Team Negative1 did saying it was better than the Despecialized 2.5. But I found it to be grainy, soft, and undersaturated compared to yours. Maybe that is because I have seen the original version of Star Wars three times. Every time was in a movie Palace with 1,000-2,000 seats and a new print (Once in 70mm, the other two times 35mm).

Oh, BTW you reference “sub-par blue-screen optical compositing” in the Rancor scene. There was no blue screen used in that scene. It is all hand roto. That is why the Matte lines are so bad. Just thought you might like to know. But in the five shots I brought up, even in the current special editions, the comps have the same level of quality. That is why I question if they really were redone and probably only re-color timed.

But anyway, thank you for all your work.

Harmy said:

If the BD had a seamless branching choice of either version, then the version without that scene would have been a restoration.

How myopic… The restoration of Spartacus was done photochemically in 1990 for a theatrical release. Long before DVDs or Blu Rays.

This is why I’d like to ask everyone to stay strictly on topic - we can discuss the reported problems but not anything else!!! Thank you!!!

Harmy, I realize some of my comments here have been a bit incendiary. In spite of what I may think about ROTJ v2.5 and the contrast and darkness of the LPP. I want to thank you for all your hard work and I really love what you have done to date with Star Wars and Empire.

As I said earlier, while it is nice, I still prefer your Despecialized version 2.5 over Team Negative1’s Silver Screen Theatrical Version. Not only Picture quality (better saturation, sharpness, and less grain) but also having 5.1 as well as subtitles, chapter stops, and commentary tracks.

I eagerly await and remain optimistic about Despecialized 3.0 in 1080p of all the films.

Harmy said:

Despecialized v3.0 will he much better, in that it will be much more like ROTJ v2.5.

How do you mean? Less custom mattes and more whole sale cutting of shots from 35mm prints?

Hopefully the larger raster size will help with my problem of increased darkness and contrast of 35mm bumping next to the blu ray material.

Dat_SW_Guy said:

ROTJ v.2.5
00:30:34-00:30:38- Sarlacc has stationary, narrow and thin black line, and sometimes flickers.

The Grindhouse and the JSC also have that line. I’d leave it alone if I was making the call.

Edit: oh, didn’t see that it was on the JSC. Had no idea why it wasn’t cleaned up until now. 😃

Ignore This

Not an issue, more of a nitpick really, but some moments in the isolated score audio track for the three films are wrong. Sometimes the track uses the original recordings that are in place of what is actually heard or not heard in the final cut. Although its cool to see the films with the score that John Williams originally intended, it would be nice to have a true isolated score. To help I made a list of all the on the isolated score that do not match up with the cues and edits that are heard or not heard in the film.

Star Wars 2.5

11:27 – 13:05
(Jawas and R2) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

15:23 – 15:30
(Sandcrawler) The cue that was used in the film is missing

1:17:20 – 1:18:55
(Dianoga) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:19:06 - 1:19:47
(The Trash Compactor) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

The Empire Strikes Back 2.0

2:06 – 2:54
(The Probe Droid) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

4:15 – 5:42
(Echo Base) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

7:02 – 8:18
(Echo Base 2) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

15:06 – 16:00
(Snowspeeder Rescue) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

16:19 – 16:50
(The Bacta Tank) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

19:37 – 20:21
(The Imperial Fleet/The Executor) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

25:42 – 26:05
(AT-AT Walkers) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

47:47 – 49:35
(Yoda) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

57:07 – 58:20
(Tie Bombers/Mynock) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:00:28 – 1:02:01
(Luke’s Training) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:05:15 – 1:05:29
(Executor) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:12:52 – 1:13:08
(The Executor) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:39:27 – 1:40:45
(Freezing Chamber Duel) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:42:45 – 1:44:54
(Duel 2) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

1:58:14 – 1:58:38
(The Rebel Fleet) The cue that was used in the film is missing

2:02:10
(End Credits) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

Return of the Jedi 2.5

30:35 – 31:22
(Sarlaac Pit) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

45:08 – 47:15
(Obi-Wan) Uses original recorded score, not the edit/cue heard in the film

(Ewok Battle) I know the insert is lost

REPORT SW 2.5/2.7

00:09:14-00:09:25
Frozen grain on blue escape pod hatch.

REPORT-SW-v2.7 (also, v2.5 - did not check others)
00:06:20
Red light illuminating Leia’s hand/arm looks pixelated/blocky.
Note I also see this in the red glow of the “warewolf” alien’s eyes at 00:44:09.
I am guessing it is triggered by or made more noticeable with saturated/pure red.

REPORT-SW-v2.7
00:31:46
This shot (which is only an example) in 2.7 is noticeably softer (less sharp) than in 2.5. Note that I have not gone through the whole 2.7 yet, so there may be additional shots (I think I remember seeing at least one or two others) that are also softer. Perhaps this is intentional, but nearby shots are sharper.

This shot? http://i.imgur.com/HNimLm8.jpg I think I used harmy’s 97SE for the rest of that scene, starting from that shot. The 2.5 color correction had been pushed so far that there was nothing left (at least for someone with my skillset) to work with, especially in the final shot of the scene. Some of those shots, to me, look super sharpened in 2.5, but it may just be something about the color correction? There’s nothing particularly bad looking about that arm shot, but you have to keep in mind that it’s the same shot that pans over to the characters, which in turn needs to match the other (same) shots of those characters as much as possible. It’s a pain in the ass to color correct shots that are actually two shots, as such. A huge example is Han getting up from Greedo’s table, walking up to the bar, and the Death Star shot that it wipes to.

Anyway, I don’t think there should be anything wrong with the shot. But I don’t know the specifics about the 97SE there. If something was done that would reduce the picture quality or soften the image, or if the encoding was somehow less quality (but I doubt it). I had the lossless files for that as well, so re-encoding shouldn’t have been the issue.

For other shots: If it’s a 35mm shot. Yeah, it’ll probably be softer. It’s sharpened to a degree, but there’s a point where it starts to look bad. It’s better than super-sharpened GOUT.

For the werewolf: Yeah, Harmy used the GOUT for that. This was before we had super resolution techniques and, more importantly, a good 35mm source.

Leia’s hand: No idea. Maybe color correction related, but different from the werewolf.

And looking at the project file again (without the sources loaded) I think that arm shot is 100% untouched from Harmy’s 97 respecialized.

Edit: I’m happy that just looking at the time codes wasn’t enough for me to know what shot it was, and I actually had to load up the file! Also, not knowing the exact settings employed on each shot off the top of my head means the road to recovery is real. Maybe someday I will be able to watch/enjoy this film again. 😉