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What Didn't You Like About ROTS? — Page 5

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Lord Haseo said:

Dek Rollins said:

Lord Haseo said:

A couple of the lightsaber duels

None of the lightsaber duels were any good.

If so then all of the duels in the OT were utter garbage…

No, they weren’t. Regardless of story, the OT duels were designed like real sword duels, while the PT duels were ballets. They weren’t fighting how real sword masters would fight. The “styles” exercised had so many wholes in them you can hardly count. The OT duels were choreographed by a swordplay expert, to look like real sword fights. Even Vader was played by Bob Anderson for all of his stunts in ESB and ROTJ. So he was actually sword fighting. He also personally trained Mark Hamill for the sequels. I can definitely forgive Ben’s awkward spin when comparing it to the PT duels.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Dek Rollins said:

Lord Haseo said:

Dek Rollins said:

Lord Haseo said:

A couple of the lightsaber duels

None of the lightsaber duels were any good.

If so then all of the duels in the OT were utter garbage…

No, they weren’t. Regardless of story, the OT duels were designed like real sword duels, while the PT duels were ballets. They weren’t fighting how real sword masters would fight. The “styles” exercised had so many wholes in them you can hardly count. The OT duels were choreographed by a swordplay expert, to look like real sword fights. Even Vader was played by Bob Anderson for all of his stunts in ESB and ROTJ. So he was actually sword fighting. He also personally trained Mark Hamill for the sequels. I can definitely forgive Ben’s awkward spin when comparing it to the PT duels.

Obi-Wan vs Vader was basically two old men hitting with sticks. It was horrible but at least there’s a couple of good lines of dialogue in there.

Luke vs Vader on Bespin was the best duel in the series in my opinion. Both in choreography and in terms of story.

Luke vs Vader on The 2nd Death Star was okay. There is a sequence where they do the same swing for like 8 seconds that kills it for me. Now the sloppiness of the duel after Luke is enraged isn’t a problem for me though.

With the exception of Luke and Vader’s first fight I’d take most of the PT duels over the other two. Except for the Yoda vs Dooku and Mace vs Sidious.

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Watch Barry Lyndon. That will show you the light.

Obi-Wan vs Vader was basically two old men hitting with sticks.

So, because they weren’t being flashy, it’s now a horrible fight? Because that’s what a sword duel is about, entertaining an audience with flashy tricks and spins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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I might as well have said “Beetlejuice” three times.

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Dek Rollins said:

Watch Barry Lyndon. That will show you the light.

Obi-Wan vs Vader was basically two old men hitting with sticks.

So, because they weren’t being flashy, it’s now a horrible fight? Because that’s what a sword duel is about, entertaining an audience with flashy tricks and spins.

The sword play in the Obi-Wan vs Vader duel was atrocious. That’s why I think it’s a horrible fight. I mean the duel in ESB isn’t overly flashy in it’s sword play and it’s my favorite. The sword play in ROTJ is at least competent for the most part.

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The swordplay in that fight isn’t good, but they were still figuring out how to do the lightsabers. GL tried using glowing rods (with wires running to wall sockets nearby) to create an in-camera effect that wouldn’t require post-production rotoscoping. It didn’t really work, so on later films they just used colored sticks which gave the actors much more freedom of movement.

I will say I’m amazed that aside from fixing rotoscoping errors, GL hasn’t put some sort of messy CGI in this bit of the film, since so many people (even on this very site!) complain about it.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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pittrek said:

I thought Clones was pretty good. Except the entire movie, it was pretty enjoyable.

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We have two old guys, one of whom is a guy who’s only kept alive by a life support suit he wears and who has mechanical limbs and the other of whom is not trying to win. It wouldn’t make much sense for them to be bouncing off the walls fighting each other like cartoon characters. The ANH duel gets the job done. The story was more important than the effects. As it should be.

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What I do like about the prequels is a pretty short list, but it does exist:

  • Palpatine was awesome. In an insanely over-the-top scenery devouring “EEEEEEEEVIIIIIILLLLLLLLL” way but awesome all the same. Ian McDiarmid did a glorious job and was really the only actor who looked like he was having fun. Plus the best part of the story is Palpatine manipulating his way into becoming Emperor. It’s like House of Cards meets Star Wars. This might already be a fan edit, but a movie focusing purely on that plotline could be pretty damn good. What would be even better is an alternative prequel trilogy with Palpatine as the protagonist who breaks the fourth wall like Frank Underwood in House of Cards. A man can dream.

  • John Williams’s score was great as always. “Duel of the Fates” is in the running for greatest Star Wars song ever.

  • There was quite a bit of imaginative worldbuilding and creative costume design, set design, etc. Some of it was pretty dumb, but some of it was great too. The Star Wars universe was expanded quite a bit and the effects, though horribly dated now, were groundbreaking at the time.

  • All the seeds for a great, Shakespearean tragedy were in place in the main plotline. It was executed terribly, but the idea was good and there were at least a couple moments in ROTS where it came close to emotional payoff. It also adds a bit to Vader’s arc in the originals, particularly ROTJ, even though at the same time the portrayal of Anakin significantly takes away from his badassery.

  • Ewan McGregor was the perfect choice to play young Obi-Wan. He was misused in the films (especially TPM), but this might really pay off if he gets his own spinoff film now as rumored.

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Indeed. Contrast this with the ROTS duel, which – leaving aside the story largely informed by the OT – is nothing but effects.

The use of blue-on-blue lightsabers is cool though.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Also, Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine as Richard III? I’d pay to see that.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Density said:

What I do like about the prequels is a pretty short list, but it does exist:

What thread do you think you are in?

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I don’t like the reference to the Death Star (like, why do they carry the plans everywhere with them?), especially seeing its skeleton at the end. After the Battle of Yavin, a larger, superior Death Star was almost complete after 4 or 5 years, while the original Death Star took 20 to construct. It doesn’t make sense.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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:\ I was able to forget it before your post. Why did you have to do this!?
20 years in the making… 😄 almost as much as the autostrada Salerno-Reggio Calabria (still in the making!)
I think Lucas’ “official” explaination was that they couldn’t complete it on time because of remonstrances, but he could’ve avoided the problem not showing the Death Star in ROTS: I don’t think that was what fans were looking for, and added nothing but retcons.
What about Motti? I was under the (false?) impression that when Vader said that Motti had constructed the Death Star, he meant it, right from its planning stage to its final form.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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It’s odd but what I don’t like the most in ROTS is the fact that it tells everything I wanted to see on screen during the 3 prequels BUT fails to make it happen on a single movie. Everything is either too rushed or weirdly paced (and dialogues are atrocious).
This movie is upseting not only because it is bad itslef, but because it remembers me all the screentime spent for nothing in episode 1 and 2.

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There really isn’t much to like at all.

Not enough people read the EU.

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ROTS is my favorite of the six movies (I have not yet seen TFA, I am waiting for the Blu-ray).

But what did I not like (as not even my favorite movies are perfect)?

The single scene with Jar-Jar.

Too much focus on Padme and Anakin’s relationship (I don’t like when movies get bogged down in romance sideplots).

General Grievous was a bit cheesy.

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The hammy acting that brought the worst out of even Ewan.

The continuation of Anakin being made a totally crap character with no believable or reasonable actions towards his generally relatable goals.

The Jedi being pretty oblivious. Palpatine being too obvious.

The poor direction.

The continued over-reliance on CGI. “Oh but they used more models than ever bef-” That’s great, but they still used way too much CGI overtop of everything.

The beginning of the undermining of Vader as a character with his first “noooooooo”

The continued horrible love-dialog between Anakin and Padme.

The battledroids getting stupid voices.

Ugh, I’m sure there are more, but I haven’t seen it in a long time now.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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