DominicCobb said:
swagmasta69 said:
DominicCobb said:
swagmasta69 said:
adywan said:
swagmasta69 said:
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.
So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
Very broad strokes. In many ways the overuse of CGI was because scripts weren’t ready in time to build sets and scenes were created whole cloth in post. Read the Secret History of Star Wars or, hell, just listen to the PT commentary tracks.
I’ve done both (not in a few years mind you) and I don’t remember anything about CGI being used because of time constraints.
Watching the AOTC behind the scenes recently they say that back then CGI still actually took longer than building a set/model.
I think the actual amount of time building a practical vs. CG set is variable, but that wasn’t what I was getting at. I merely meant when they were built. Practical sets need to be built before hand, CG afterwards. Georgie didn’t finish his script in time so they had to make things afterwards (that’s where the accusations of laziness come from).
Calling the criticism of excessive CGI “demonization” seems a little extreme. I know some here claim to hate CGI but the truth is CGI is an important and useful tool. Hating CGI is silly, but none of us here really do. We just hate excessive CGI. Lucas just went overboard on AOTC and ROTS (there is a lot of CG in TPM but a reasonable amount. The problem is just that when you’re creating whole sets out of CGI it becomes very hard to suspend your disbelief and accept the live action characters as actually part of that environment. The beauty of the original Star Wars was how grounded in reality it was (the used universe aesthetic and all). Even though it was a galaxy far, far, away, everything felt real. In AOTC and ROTS, while pretty, the galaxy just does not have the same tangible feel as it does in all the other films.
I see what you mean, but I think it’s just a generational thing. Even knowing of the extensive CGI use in the PT, I actually find Coruscant to be more interesting and immersive than any OT location, so I guess one of the many reasons I enjoy the prequels more than a lot of this board is because the special effects used don’t mess with my suspension of disbelief.
I did grow up in the “video game generation”, after all.
I watched TPM all the time as a child and when AOTC came out on VHS I watched that a ton too.
I was raised on those and the unaltered OT VHS trilogy and I actually enjoyed the PT more as a child.
Of course, I now fully appreciate the OT, but seeing ROTS in theaters just completely blew my mind.
I’m rambling. I guess I’m saying nostalgia is strong- but I did go through a prequel hating phase (Plinkett and all that) and when I came out of that, I actually liked the prequels on what I percieve to be true, albiet flawed (though not nearly as flawed as people claim), vision.
I find the PT to be as good as the OT.
/ramble
