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I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.
You argue poorly.
Indiana Jones reference?
- The Holiday Special
- The Force Awakens
Really? ‘The Holiday Special’ is so bad it’s like a physical and mental act of shear endurance and will-power to sit through the thing. It’s not even so bad it’s good in an ironic way. At least TFA had some explosions, some bright coloured lights and not even one long, boring and dry instructional video about the proper operation of a entirely fictional electronic device.
Dude…it’s obvious hyperbole lol
Have you seen some of the other posts in this thread? Nothing here can be described as obvious hyperbole…at least from the point of view of those posting it.
The Holiday Special is a different kind of monster though…
I knew there would be talk about that one, and I sort of did it as a joke, but I’m also kind of serious, which is why I actually did it. When I saw TFA, nothing struck me with any positive thought about what I just saw. The first thing I did when the credits started was begin thinking about how the whole plot was just Star Wars made worse, and none of what was happening at any time made me feel any emotion for the scene. The Holiday Special has a Riff Tracks appeal, and I generally found its cheese more entertaining than TFA. It’s just an unoriginal modern blockbuster that didn’t have anything in it that felt like Star Wars to me. Also realize that I don’t like any of those and just put them in so someone wouldn’t ask me to finish my list and face the truth.
Frink, I respect you and your opinions, and your contribution to this site. Your posts make me laugh on a daily basis I’m sure. But, I just don’t agree with you and some others about how “TFA nailed it” and all that.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.
You realize the creator went completely crazy after 1980, right?
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.You realize the creator went completely crazy after 1980, right?
Are you sure it wasn’t you who went completely crazy after 1980?
Because ROTJ has the best scenes in the saga.
- The Holiday Special
- The Force Awakens
Really? ‘The Holiday Special’ is so bad it’s like a physical and mental act of shear endurance and will-power to sit through the thing. It’s not even so bad it’s good in an ironic way. At least TFA had some explosions, some bright coloured lights and not even one long, boring and dry instructional video about the proper operation of a entirely fictional electronic device.
Dude…it’s obvious hyperbole lol
Have you seen some of the other posts in this thread? Nothing here can be described as obvious hyperbole…at least from the point of view of those posting it.
The Holiday Special is a different kind of monster though…
I knew there would be talk about that one, and I sort of did it as a joke, but I’m also kind of serious, which is why I actually did it. When I saw TFA, nothing struck me with any positive thought about what I just saw. The first thing I did when the credits started was begin thinking about how the whole plot was just Star Wars made worse, and none of what was happening at any time made me feel any emotion for the scene. The Holiday Special has a Riff Tracks appeal, and I generally found its cheese more entertaining than TFA. It’s just an unoriginal modern blockbuster that didn’t have anything in it that felt like Star Wars to me. Also realize that I don’t like any of those and just put them in so someone wouldn’t ask me to finish my list and face the truth.
Frink, I respect you and your opinions, and your contribution to this site. Your posts make me laugh on a daily basis I’m sure. But, I just don’t agree with you and some others about how “TFA nailed it” and all that.
Good for you I guess.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.You realize the creator went completely crazy after 1980, right?
Are you sure it wasn’t you who went completely crazy after 1980?
Because ROTJ has the best scenes in the saga.
I am pretty sure I did, but that is completely besides the point. ROTJ has some nice moments, that is correct. I am not saying the damage happened overnight.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.
So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
Very broad strokes. In many ways the overuse of CGI was because scripts weren’t ready in time to build sets and scenes were created whole cloth in post. Read the Secret History of Star Wars or, hell, just listen to the PT commentary tracks.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)Very broad strokes. In many ways the overuse of CGI was because scripts weren’t ready in time to build sets and scenes were created whole cloth in post. Read the Secret History of Star Wars or, hell, just listen to the PT commentary tracks.
I’ve done both (not in a few years mind you) and I don’t remember anything about CGI being used because of time constraints.
Watching the AOTC behind the scenes recently they say that back then CGI still actually took longer than building a set/model.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
Now, I’m not sure what your getting at with this sentence. Are you one of those people that think he had planned for the PT to exist the whole time? For those that use “that’s why he called them Episodes V and VI” as an excuse to think this, that is not why he originally used the episode numbers. He used them in yet another way to recreate the feel of coming into a theater to see some Flash Gordon serials, and you just came in the middle of the story. And ROTJ Vader wasn’t any closer to PT Annie than in the first two.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
Now, I’m not sure what your getting at with this sentence. Are you one of those people that think he had planned for the PT to exist the whole time? For those that use “that’s why he called them Episodes V and VI” as an excuse to think this, that is not why he originally used the episode numbers. He used them in yet another way to recreate the feel of coming into a theater to see some Flash Gordon serials, and you just came in the middle of the story. And ROTJ Vader wasn’t any closer to PT Annie than in the first two.
George had some ideas for the PT in 1980 but I’m sure whatever ideas he had were long gone by the time the mid - late 90’s came around
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
Now, I’m not sure what your getting at with this sentence. Are you one of those people that think he had planned for the PT to exist the whole time? For those that use “that’s why he called them Episodes V and VI” as an excuse to think this, that is not why he originally used the episode numbers. He used them in yet another way to recreate the feel of coming into a theater to see some Flash Gordon serials, and you just came in the middle of the story. And ROTJ Vader wasn’t any closer to PT Annie than in the first two.
To me, ROTJ Vader acts more like Annie in that he is more of a sympathetic character, and the dialogue in the scene with Luke and Vader on Endor just fits more snugly with the PT than much of Vader’s lines/characterization in the other two OT films.
- The Holiday Special
- The Force Awakens
Really? ‘The Holiday Special’ is so bad it’s like a physical and mental act of shear endurance and will-power to sit through the thing. It’s not even so bad it’s good in an ironic way. At least TFA had some explosions, some bright coloured lights and not even one long, boring and dry instructional video about the proper operation of a entirely fictional electronic device.
Dude…it’s obvious hyperbole lol
Have you seen some of the other posts in this thread? Nothing here can be described as obvious hyperbole…at least from the point of view of those posting it.
The Holiday Special is a different kind of monster though…
I knew there would be talk about that one, and I sort of did it as a joke, but I’m also kind of serious, which is why I actually did it. When I saw TFA, nothing struck me with any positive thought about what I just saw. The first thing I did when the credits started was begin thinking about how the whole plot was just Star Wars made worse, and none of what was happening at any time made me feel any emotion for the scene. The Holiday Special has a Riff Tracks appeal, and I generally found its cheese more entertaining than TFA. It’s just an unoriginal modern blockbuster that didn’t have anything in it that felt like Star Wars to me. Also realize that I don’t like any of those and just put them in so someone wouldn’t ask me to finish my list and face the truth.
Frink, I respect you and your opinions, and your contribution to this site. Your posts make me laugh on a daily basis I’m sure. But, I just don’t agree with you and some others about how “TFA nailed it” and all that.Good for you I guess.
Thankyou, and if you enjoy TFA, good for you, I don’t want to ruin that for you. I was just explaining myself since I’m sure so many people would be unable to understand my logic. The point was not saying THS was good, just more enjoyable to watch for myself than TFA was.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
Dek Rollins said:
I was just explaining myself since I’m sure so many people would be unable to understand my logic.
No one on here is going to understand your logic but there’s no point in even talking about about it. That’s why I conceded.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
Your argument has no basis. I mean it doesn’t seem like Lucas needed any money at that point.
真実
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
Your argument has no basis. I mean it doesn’t seem like Lucas needed any money at that point.
Yes because ALL rich people NEVER try to accumulate more currency.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
Your argument has no basis. I mean it doesn’t seem like Lucas needed any money at that point.
Yes because ALL rich people NEVER try to accumulate more currency.
Well he could simply get some other people to write and direct and just take the profit while sipping beer on the beach. Obviously there was some personal reason that he invested his time in it.
真実
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
Your argument has no basis. I mean it doesn’t seem like Lucas needed any money at that point.
Yes because ALL rich people NEVER try to accumulate more currency.
Well he could simply get some other people to write and direct and just take the profit while sipping beer on the beach. Obviously there was some personal reason that he invested his time in it.
If he had given one fuck he would have adhered to the source material. I don’t want to hear it.
imperialscum said:
Well he could simply get some other people to write and direct and just take the profit while sipping beer on the beach. Obviously there was some personal reason that he invested his time in it.
I think an overwhelming factor was toy sales and marketing. I mean, just look at the insane marketing campaign for TPM- one that was only matched recently by the ludicrous TFA campaign. He stated in the Leonard Maltin interviews in 95 that he was planning on only directing Episode I, then handing off II and III to new directors. I think this was still the plan up until the release of TPM, but due to its poor reception, he didn’t want anyone else to make a Star Wars movie that was significantly better than how own. Mind you, this is only speculation, but I think it’s both ego and profits involved, more than a want to tell great stories.
It might be simpler to retitle this thread from “Ranking the Star Wars Films” to “The Lord Haseo’s it’s all about me thread”? Probably a bad idea I know, so let’s try actually discussing the thread topic for a change.
I very much enjoyed the 80s Ewok movies as a kid (Even with blurry home taped VHS copies) but probably they haven’t held up all that well. Anybody rewatched them recently? Are they better or worse than the prequels? Worth checking out again?
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Bloody duplicate post! Argggh!
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)Very broad strokes. In many ways the overuse of CGI was because scripts weren’t ready in time to build sets and scenes were created whole cloth in post. Read the Secret History of Star Wars or, hell, just listen to the PT commentary tracks.
I’ve done both (not in a few years mind you) and I don’t remember anything about CGI being used because of time constraints.
Watching the AOTC behind the scenes recently they say that back then CGI still actually took longer than building a set/model.
I think the actual amount of time building a practical vs. CG set is variable, but that wasn’t what I was getting at. I merely meant when they were built. Practical sets need to be built before hand, CG afterwards. Georgie didn’t finish his script in time so they had to make things afterwards (that’s where the accusations of laziness come from).
Calling the criticism of excessive CGI “demonization” seems a little extreme. I know some here claim to hate CGI but the truth is CGI is an important and useful tool. Hating CGI is silly, but none of us here really do. We just hate excessive CGI. Lucas just went overboard on AOTC and ROTS (there is a lot of CG in TPM but a reasonable amount. The problem is just that when you’re creating whole sets out of CGI it becomes very hard to suspend your disbelief and accept the live action characters as actually part of that environment. The beauty of the original Star Wars was how grounded in reality it was (the used universe aesthetic and all). Even though it was a galaxy far, far, away, everything felt real. In AOTC and ROTS, while pretty, the galaxy just does not have the same tangible feel as it does in all the other films.