Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video "Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars" Discussion.) — Page 2

Flash Gordon is 1930’s. 😉

Trying to explain the space slug scene is like trying to find scientific accuracy in the Monstro the whale sequence in Pinocchio.

Smoking Lizard said:

SilverWook said:

Trying to explain the space slug scene is like trying to find scientific accuracy in the Monstro the whale sequence in Pinocchio.

True. But we’re not trying to find scientific accuracy in the space slug. At least I’m not.

Well, we haven’t technically seen anyone leave their ships while still in space prior to ESB, so I don’t really see how the space slug is breaking any rules. Also, planets, space stations, meteorites, they’re essentially just Lucas’ swapping out islands in a fantasy/myth with planets to make it more interesting so Han has essentially just been sucked up by a "whale/“sea-monster” kind of scenario.

Smoking Lizard said:
I’m not so sure about that. I see your point, but I think the whole slug thing was unnecessary. Just sort of a 1950s “Flash Gordon” thing that Lucas was fond of.

Well, sure, I can sort of agree with that. But since SW is essentially a fairy-tale/myth in space I don’t have any problems with them throwing in a few monsters every now and then. Also it does serve as their hiding space from the Empire, only to eventually force them to leave their hiding space, thereby forcing them to go to Bespin, etc, etc.

Smoking Lizard said:
My objection to the space slug isn’t so much that it has its own gravity, as maybe the asteroid it lives on is large enough to have its own gravity, but that the slug is living in a vacuum. And worse, the characters step out of the MF into what they believe is a vacuum. That, I think, is a case of TESB breaking its own rules. If TIE pilots need life support space suits to survive space, so does Han Solo, when he leaves the safe confines of his ship.

To quote myself from earlier;

ZkinandBonez said:
The big confusion here I think comes from the fact that SW borrows from so much sci-fi that it does give the impression that it actually does make some scientific sense at times…

I think details such as the TIE pilots having spacesuits on comes down to two things;

1. Suspension of disbelief. Even in something has scientifically illogical as SW there’s a requirement for certain familiar imagery since the setting is already recognizable as sci-fi. However since it’s not really important, they manage to stretch that logic in the scenes where it’s more obviously fantasy/myth inspired, e.g. the space-slug, anything Force related, etc.
2. Aesthetics. Like I’ve said before SW seems to often just goes for what looks cool and interesting. Also it’s important, especially for the kids, that the stormtroopers remain faceless, both to make their deaths seem less violent and for its symbolic value. And since there’s not much reason for someone to wear their armour inside a fighter, the Rebels simply wear helmets after all (even though a space suits would make more scientific sense, but they’re mirroring WWII fighter planes not real space travel), they simply added a space-suit-armour allowing them to make even the TIE pilots as faceless as all the other Imperial grunts.

Rebel pilots were originally conceived as having air masks, (much like modern fighter pilots) but it was probably nixed so the actor’s faces could be seen. You can see a prototype rebel helmet here.
http://www.starwarshelmets.com/original_rebel_pilot_helmets.htm

TIE pilots really don’t have as much armor as Stormtrooper does, (just a chest piece with a back plate) it’s very similar to the AT AT driver costume.

Lucas always insisted Star Wars was a space fantasy, not science fiction.

Exactly, so like I pointed out earlier, certain logical details are left out to make it more cinematic; e.g. we get to see the faces of our heroes while the villains remain faceless drones, and there’s just enough tech stuff thrown into the frame to make it look convincing enough so as to allow for a suspension of disbelief.

PS, I’m assuming this is the prototype you were referring to;
http://www.starwarshelmets.com/protoxwing.jpg
(It certainly looks more realistic, but it would have made the final trench-run scene a lot less interesting and emotionally engaging.)

That’s the one. I didn’t think that site allowed linking to their images, unless I’m thinking of a different one.

I have noticed characters in movies like Top Gun and Independence Day seem to take their oxygen masks off a lot. 😉

Smoking Lizard said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I think details such as the TIE pilots having spacesuits on comes down to two things;

1. Suspension of disbelief. Even in something has scientifically illogical as SW there’s a requirement for certain familiar imagery since the setting is already recognizable as sci-fi. However since it’s not really important, they manage to stretch that logic in the scenes where it’s more obviously fantasy/myth inspired, e.g. the space-slug, anything Force related, etc.

2. Aesthetics. Like I’ve said before SW seems to often just goes for what looks cool and interesting. Also it’s important, especially for the kids, that the stormtroopers remain faceless, both to make their deaths seem less violent and for its symbolic value. And since there’s not much reason for someone to wear their armour inside a fighter, the Rebels simply wear helmets after all (even though a space suits would make more scientific sense, but they’re mirroring WWII fighter planes not real space travel), they simply added a space-suit-armour allowing them to make even the TIE pilots as faceless as all the other Imperial grunts.

I do see your point there. It’s well thought out. I especially agree with you on the notion of making the bad guys being faceless – it makes it easier for the audience when they are killed and it makes them look more menacing.

Still, however, I think space fantasy has its limits. Humans floating about the vacuum of space goes over the line, in my mind.

Sure, it can definitely push its own limits to far. But I guess it also comes down to the viewer, I for one don’t really care about the sudden gravity in the space-slug, but I can see how that’s going a tad too far for some people. I would just argue that it can’t be classified as a “mistake” in a franchise that doesn’t really have any regard for scientific accuracy in the first place. I do however agree that they’re pushing their luck as far as suspension of disbelief goes, but I guess it depends on the viewer whether it pushes it too far or not.

One thing is for sure though, I’d rather have them stretching my suspension of disbelief than adding pseudo-scientific explanations/excuses like Midichlorians. The irony is that in trying to explain the fantasy elements in the PT they failed to create a suspension of disbelief in many people. I guess SW is all about finding a balance.

luckydube56 said:

Jay said:

luckydube56 said:

I knew the first Star Wars had charm when C3P0 and R2D2 scamper across a narrow corridor of the Tantive IV while Stormtroopers and Rebel fighters were shooting at each other. The scene is utterly ridiculous and simultaneously wonderful and engaging because of that fact. In the midst of this deadly situation, those two goof ball droids walked right across and managed to not get shot! Even my child mind could perceive the irony.

I always thought this scene foreshadowed their coming adventure, and the trilogy as a whole really. These two were blessed by fate and bound to come through unscathed — after being repaired a few times, of course 😃

It’s important to remember that the Force is a guiding agent that pushes characters in the Star Wars universe together and into “coincidental” circumstances, and their actions are an entertaining blend of destiny and self-motivation, but it can be difficult to discern the difference between the Force and just plain lazy writing.

That may also be true from a certain point of view. I prefer to see it as a not so wise smuggler once said “I call it luck”.

I think the biggest take away from the video is criticism of a science fantasy fairy tale by way of logical inconsistency is ironic.

I’m pretty sure that was the whole point of the videos.

EDIT: I guess that’s what you actually meant(?)