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Rate 'The Last Jedi' (NO SPOILERS) (was: Rate TFA (NO SPOILERS)) — Page 7

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Darth Id said:

Sorry to break it to everyone here, but Citizen Kane is a boring, overwrought wreck of a film.

I’m really surprised at how low the consensus rating for SW77 is on this site. People who rate it in the 8 range: why aren’t you on a Citizen Kane geek site instead of this one?

Because not everyone is a fan of just one thing.
Also, how the heck is 8 a low rating? There are film-buffs/snobs out there who would (metaphorically) lynch me for rating an SW film that high.

EDIT: Bingowings also has a good point. It’s kind of hard to geek out over something like an Orson Welles film. SW has multiple films, books, comics, games, etc. Citizen Kane is just one classical movie. Hardly forum worthy.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:
It’s kind of hard to geek out over something like an Orson Welles film. SW has multiple films, books, comics, games, etc. Citizen Kane is just one classical movie. Hardly forum worthy.

Bad argument. Even if there was just Star Wars (1977) we could still easily “geek out over” it. For example, Blade Runner is just a single film and it is easy to “geek out over” it. The way I see it, Citizen Kane just doesn’t have enough depth, width and appeal to provide the grounds for “geeking out over” it. It is just a boring snobbish film.

真実

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imperialscum said:
The way I see it, Citizen Kane just doesn’t have enough depth, width and appeal to provide the grounds for “geeking out over” it. It is just a boring snobbish film.

I found it pretty riveting the first time I saw it. The lack of conversation about it by modern filmgoers says more about them than the movie. Or it could be that it’s been talked about to death already.

I like lasers and lightsabers and trench runs, but I also like thinking sometimes, too.

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Jay said:
The lack of conversation about it by modern filmgoers says more about them than the movie.

I don’t like this kind of attitude. Just because you find it special, please don’t assume it is special for the fact and that there is something wrong with everyone who doesn’t find it special.

I like lasers and lightsabers and trench runs, but I also like thinking sometimes, too.

There is plenty of thinking material besides lasers and lightsabers and trench runs.

真実

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imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:
It’s kind of hard to geek out over something like an Orson Welles film. SW has multiple films, books, comics, games, etc. Citizen Kane is just one classical movie. Hardly forum worthy.

Bad argument. Even if there was just Star Wars (1977) we could still easily “geek out over” it. For example, Blade Runner is just a single film and it is easy to “geek out over” it. The way I see it, Citizen Kane just doesn’t have enough depth, width and appeal to provide the grounds for “geeking out over” it. It is just a boring snobbish film.

Yeah sure, but I’d still say that Blade Runner has more of an implied fictional world that is just begging to be explored. Although even that discussion will never reach SW proportions. Citizen Kane on the other takes place in the real world, so there’s not much to discuss other than plot and film-making techniques.
Either way, I like SW because it’s entertaining, fun, and has it’s fair share of clever moments, and I enjoy Citizen Kane because it’s thought provoking, intriguing, moving, not to mention one of the most visually impressive films of all time.
But I get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea; it’s slow, very heavy on dialogue and implications, and it’s not what I’d call ‘entertaining’. And although I’m not part of the "it’s the best film ever, period!" crowd, I’d say its cultural status proves that it’s at least a damn good classical movie.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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To me, Star Wars is a 9.5 and Empire is a 9.5 and Jedi is an 8. Raiders of the Lost Ark is a 10.

The Force Awakens is an 8.

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Oh man, any world created by Philip K. Dick is a damn good world to want to explore and it keeps you thinking about it.

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I clearly haven’t watched enough Indiana Jones since I found your rating surprising, lukcydube56. Raiders of the Lost Arc is rated higher than ESB on Rotten Tomatoes and rated only slightly lower on IMDB.

Last time I saw that movie, I was probably 7 or 8 years old and have little flashes of scenes in my head. Damn.

The Rise of Failures

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boredom3031 said:

Oh man, any world created by Philip K. Dick is a damn good world to want to explore and it keeps you thinking about it.

That goes without saying (or at least it should).

Still, I don’t think I’ll ever watch the film adaptation of Radio Free Albemuth ever again, Alanis Morissette notwithstanding.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

boredom3031 said:

Oh man, any world created by Philip K. Dick is a damn good world to want to explore and it keeps you thinking about it.

That goes without saying (or at least it should).

Still, I don’t think I’ll ever watch the film adaptation of Radio Free Albemuth ever again, Alanis Morissette notwithstanding.

It should, but have ran into people not fans of his work what so ever, it boggles my mind.

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Jay said:

imperialscum said:
The way I see it, Citizen Kane just doesn’t have enough depth, width and appeal to provide the grounds for “geeking out over” it. It is just a boring snobbish film.

I found it pretty riveting the first time I saw it. The lack of conversation about it by modern filmgoers says more about them than the movie. Or it could be that it’s been talked about to death already.

I like lasers and lightsabers and trench runs, but I also like thinking sometimes, too.

Agreed.

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imperialscum said:

Jay said:
The lack of conversation about it by modern filmgoers says more about them than the movie.

I don’t like this kind of attitude. Just because you find it special, please don’t assume it is special for the fact and that there is something wrong with everyone who doesn’t find it special.

I don’t like this kind of attitude. Just because other people find it special doesn’t mean it’s not.

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TavorX said:

I clearly haven’t watched enough Indiana Jones since I found your rating surprising, lukcydube56. Raiders of the Lost Arc is rated higher than ESB on Rotten Tomatoes and rated only slightly lower on IMDB.

Last time I saw that movie, I was probably 7 or 8 years old and have little flashes of scenes in my head. Damn.

Raiders is a damn near perfect “fun” action flick. It is a very good and well made film in its own right. But it doesn’t have those extra things that take a movie from very good to 10/10 for me. It doesn’t have the emotional depth of Star Wars, let alone Empire Strikes Back, and nothing as suspenseful as the trench run. It also lacks the creative originality of the galaxy far, far away.

That said, it is still a very well made and entertaining movie.

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DominicCobb said:

imperialscum said:

Jay said:
The lack of conversation about it by modern filmgoers says more about them than the movie.

I don’t like this kind of attitude. Just because you find it special, please don’t assume it is special for the fact and that there is something wrong with everyone who doesn’t find it special.

I don’t like this kind of attitude. Just because other people find it special doesn’t mean it’s not.

There is a big difference between just holding an opinion and mocking people who don’t hold the same opinion.

真実

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imperialscum said:

There is plenty of thinking material besides lasers and lightsabers and trench runs.

I like Star Wars enough to have started a web site dedicated to it and kept it running for almost 13 years. They’re great movies and a lot of fun. That said, there are reasons why enjoying Star Wars — every episode, I through VII — requires one to turn off their brain a bit and “enjoy the ride”. There’s nothing wrong with that, but let’s not assign more depth than is actually there in order to build the films up. They’re not thinking films, and that’s fine.

imperialscum said:

There is a big difference between just holding an opinion and mocking people who don’t hold the same opinion.

I didn’t mock anyone. I implied that modern moviegoers are less discerning, which I think is largely true. General consensus on Citizen Kane is that it’s a cinema classic. For a long time now, most film fans have thought it’s something special; your opinion is clearly in the minority and doesn’t negate the general consensus.

Please note that I never said liking action/adventure movies doesn’t make one less discerning. I love action movies. I can watch Demolition Man and Total Recall (the original) over and over and love them every time, but that doesn’t make Citizen Kane boring in comparison.

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You must have hit it pretty close to the mark to get him all riled up, huh Jay?

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Alderaan said:

TavorX said:

I clearly haven’t watched enough Indiana Jones since I found your rating surprising, lukcydube56. Raiders of the Lost Arc is rated higher than ESB on Rotten Tomatoes and rated only slightly lower on IMDB.

Last time I saw that movie, I was probably 7 or 8 years old and have little flashes of scenes in my head. Damn.

Raiders is a damn near perfect “fun” action flick. It is a very good and well made film in its own right. But it doesn’t have those extra things that take a movie from very good to 10/10 for me. It doesn’t have the emotional depth of Star Wars, let alone Empire Strikes Back, and nothing as suspenseful as the trench run. It also lacks the creative originality of the galaxy far, far away.

That said, it is still a very well made and entertaining movie.

Everyone’s got their own criteria. According to some, intellectualism is the key to everything and Star Wars lacks enough of it to rate very high.

The original Star Wars is SO visceral and will always reconnect me to my childhood. What does that count for? To some, nothing. But to me it is why I will always hold it in my top 3 of all time.

Ok so Raiders doesn’t have nearly the number of emotional moments. And there are no deep intellectual aspects that you can wax scholarly and endlessly about. But in the aspects that it does choose to take on and emphasize, it is perfectly executed. To say Raiders is somewhat shallow (if I may paraphrase) is both true and irrelevant in the context of the film. It never set out to be a deep film experience. It is one of high adventure and in that regard it didnt fail in any way.

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luckydube56 said:
To say Raiders is somewhat shallow (if I may paraphrase) is both true and irrelevant in the context of the film. It never set out to be a deep film experience. It is one of high adventure and in that regard it didnt fail in any way.

I agree with you, that’s why I said Raiders is an excellent and extremely well made film.

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Alderaan said:

luckydube56 said:
To say Raiders is somewhat shallow (if I may paraphrase) is both true and irrelevant in the context of the film. It never set out to be a deep film experience. It is one of high adventure and in that regard it didnt fail in any way.

I agree with you, that’s why I said Raiders is an excellent and extremely well made film.

Sorry I didnt mean to sound scolding.

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Jay said:

imperialscum said:

There is plenty of thinking material besides lasers and lightsabers and trench runs.

I like Star Wars enough to have started a web site dedicated to it and kept it running for almost 13 years.

I know and I am very grateful for that. 😃

That said, there are reasons why enjoying Star Wars — every episode, I through VII — requires one to turn off their brain a bit and “enjoy the ride”. There’s nothing wrong with that, but let’s not assign more depth than is actually there in order to build the films up. They’re not thinking films, and that’s fine.

I believe all that is a matter of an opinion. Maybe some people prefer to put more thought into scientific/technical aspects rather than into philosophical/social aspects. Why would the later be superior to former? Not that Star Wars is lacking on either anyway, in my opinion.

imperialscum said:

There is a big difference between just holding an opinion and mocking people who don’t hold the same opinion.

General consensus on Citizen Kane is that it’s a cinema classic. For a long time now, most film fans have thought it’s something special; your opinion is clearly in the minority and doesn’t negate the general consensus.

I am aware that many people like Citizen Kane and consider it special. I have never disputed that. However, just because majority hold a certain opinion it does not make it a fact. Especially since film is essentially an art and art has no objective measure.

I didn’t mock anyone. I implied that modern moviegoers are less discerning, which I think is largely true.

You implied that based on what? Based on them not appreciating the same films you/majority do, or in other word them holding different opinion on an entirely subjective matter such as film?

真実

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Mother, tell your children not to understand, oh mother.

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I recently watched Citizen Kane on the big screen and it really hit home for me then why this film is so revered. I’d seen it, God knows how many times, on a TV and thought it was alright. But when projected up on the large screen, you fully understand the awesomeness of the craft (the makeup, the cinematography, the sfx - there are a lot more than you’d think), the details on the sets, the acting… Everything just made sense. It’s a very “cinematic” film that uses the unique aspects of the medium to convey meaning and emotion.

That said, I think Magnificent Ambersons is a much more emotional story and if it wasn’t for the studio messing it up, it could have dethroned CK as his masterpiece.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Looks like I delayed watching TFA for so long this thread isn’t about rating TFA anymore? Oh, well, on the OP’s 100-point scale, with high and low markers:

The Third Man: 100
ESB: 80
SW: 75
ESB:SE: 70
ROTJ: 60
SW:SE: 60
TFA: 55
ROTJ:SE: 40
Holiday Special: 20
TPM: 8
AOTC: 6
ROTS: 3
Battlefield Earth: 1

At least for me, ratings for TFA are subject to change over time as the newness wears off, expectations change, etc. Certainly the best new thing in the Star Wars universe in 30 years, but 55 is pretty average.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)