Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 218

Bingowings said:

emanswfan said:

Listening to the soundtrack last night, thanks Amazon.

Definitely better than John William’s PT scores and right up there with the originals. The score has such a freshness and familiarity at the same time

I couldn’t agree less. This for me was the weakest Star Wars score. Even the crappiest prequel moments had memorable themes. The only motifs that I recognised were from the OT.

In my defense, I had only listened to it once at that point, and did seem to assume that the lack of new identifiable themes was more because I wasn’t familiar with it yet, as it had been so long since hearing a new SW soundtrack. That said the I liked the overall style and atmosphere to it more than the PT scores still, to me it sounds fresh yet nostalgic, with hints of older music stylings.

Yes there does seem to be fewer memorable themes making it feel a bit more like a non-Williams score. But I mean come on there’s still at least 4 new memorable themes that come to my mind: Kylo Ren/First Order, Rey, Resistance March, and Jedi Steps, all of which I really enjoy.

Frank your Majesty said:

emanswfan said:

there’s still at least 4 new memorable themes that come to my mind: Kylo Ren/First Order, Rey, Resistance March, and Jedi Steps, all of which I really enjoy.

And that’s just as many memorable themes as I can list from from Empire: Imperial march, asteroid field, battle of Hoth, Yoda. And apart from the Emperor’s theme, what memorable music is in Jedi (and don’t say Jedi rocks 😉), what have the prequels other than duel of the fates, the trade federation march, love across the stars and battle of heroes?

THIS.
First time I saw the movie no major themes jumped at me, that’s true, but after listening to the score just 2 or three times and watching the movie a second time, everything is revealed to my hears. Kylo Ren/First Order, Rey, Resistance March, and Jedi Steps ARE the major themes indeed, and very good ones (although the resistance march is weaker compared to the Imperial march, of course, and even the Trade Federation march).
Anyway, Star Wars always have the majority of the music that just follows the action superbly without stealing the show AND some major themes that pops at key moments. I don’t think TFA is any different. It’s just that I think Williams was told to use some old themes from the OT more than in the PT. And rightfully so. TFA is an “homage deluxe” to the OT, so there are cool new themes, but they indeed are diluted in all the great themes we already know. Even the superb Jedi Steps at the very end can’t resist of being followed directly by the Force theme. It’s not fair for Jedi Steps. But it does not means this new music is not splendid.

ROTJ is full of memorable themes. Luke and Leia, Jabba, The Emperor, Battle in the Forest etc.

The PT too. I can honestly say I didn’t leave the cinema with a single theme in my head that wasn’t a memory from the previous movies.

Bingowings said:

So who is this Smoke then? Someone new or a mask concealing someone very old?

Not sure if anyone has said this, but:

If you play the Darth Plagues (spelling?) opera song (I cannot remember what is called) and Snoke’s music from TFA, it’s almost the same. Not sure if this is coincidence, but it’s interesting, to state the least.

My biggest issue with the score was the lack of the rousing and dynamic thrust that the original scores had. I think some of this is due to the fact that it’s the first Star Wars score not recorded by the London Symphony. I also think whoever orchestrated the score lacked imagination when it came to coloring as a lot of the music just fills the background, rather than soars. I understand that most scores are supposed to be in the background, but Star Wars was always robust and dramatic. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it wasn’t memorable and the only legitimate gripe I have with the movie.

But in his defense, how long has John Williams been doing this? It’s unrealistic to expect him to continue coming up with new themes over and over. The man is a genius, no question.

I always thought the music in the Plagueis scene was diagetic, coming from whatever the hell that Cirque du Soleil thing Anakin and Palpatine are watching. I guess it could still be a reference, but I’ve never read that as being “Plagueis’s Theme” or anything like that.

MJR80 said:

Bingowings said:

So who is this Smoke then? Someone new or a mask concealing someone very old?

Not sure if anyone has said this, but:

If you play the Darth Plagues (spelling?) opera song (I cannot remember what is called) and Snoke’s music from TFA, it’s almost the same. Not sure if this is coincidence, but it’s interesting, to state the least.

AND Kylo Ren refers to Snoke as being “wise”…
(and in Episode III Palpatine called him “Darth Plagueis the Wise”)

lol…wise, he must be a PT character!

joefavs said:

I always thought the music in the Plagueis scene was diagetic, coming from whatever the hell that Cirque du Soleil thing Anakin and Palpatine are watching. I guess it could still be a reference, but I’ve never read that as being “Plagueis’s Theme” or anything like that.

As a former film student, thank you. I got a bit of a kick out of you using the term diegetic like it ain’t no thang.

Haha, I’m a recovering film student myself.

A good amount of the AOTC score is a hack job and ROTS is no better. ROTS has some good highlights but the original stuff is basically just a collection of “epic” cues with practically no cohesion beyond the force theme. Battle of the Heroes is fantastic but it only occurs once, in the final duel, so hard to consider it a real theme in that regard.

For those who appreciate film scores when taken as a whole, TFA is easily the best of the saga since at least TPM or maybe even ROTJ or ESB (TPM is very solid but unfortunately I find a lot of it boring, plus Anakin’s theme, while nice, doesn’t really fit; ROTJ doesn’t have much in the way of themes that carry and develop throughout the score but it does have some of the biggest highlights of the whole saga).

TFA’s new themes might not be as instantly memorable as some previous ones but they are memorable once you get to listening. Kylo Ren’s two themes, Poe’s theme, the Resistance march, and especially Rey’s theme (one of Williams very best in recent memory) have been stuck in my head for the week and a half.

If I have one criticism of the score it’s that there aren’t too many moments where the music really takes over and drives the film. Williams might have pulled one two many punches in that regard. But otherwise the score is another brilliant musical work as only the master could do.

Just came across this article, looks like there was more content cut from the film than I had previously thought.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Kylo Ren was able to murder the rest of the Jedi students so effectively because he was the only one who had a lightsaber. I’m thinking Luke didn’t want to pass on that knowledge right away, but Snoke showed Ben/Kylo as a seduction tactic. The companion books refer to both Snoke and the design of the cross guard saber as “ancient”, so it wouldn’t be out of place for those instructions to come from him. I figure if Kylo learned from Luke, he’d have built a more conventional saber, and if Kylo didn’t learn from Luke, there’s no reason to think anyone else did. It would also justify his unimpressive performance against Rey, since in this scenario he wouldn’t need to have been a particularly skilled duelist to wipe out Luke’s academy or whatever he called it (Praxeum? 😉).

Of course, speaking of the Praxeum, wasn’t this basically what played out with Kyp Durron and Exar Kun?

I’ve missed the last few pages of discussion. Has this been brought up yet?

http://mashable.com/2015/12/31/star-wars-music-theory/#_bZtq8hIhmqM

The speculation about Snoke is particularly interesting, but hopefully not accurate. Unlike some people who have complained that there’s nothing memorable about the score of TFA, I think it was great.

joefavs said:

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Kylo Ren was able to murder the rest of the Jedi students so effectively because he was the only one who had a lightsaber. I’m thinking Luke didn’t want to pass on that knowledge right away, but Snoke showed Ben/Kylo as a seduction tactic. The companion books refer to both Snoke and the design of the cross guard saber as “ancient”, so it wouldn’t be out of place for those instructions to come from him. I figure if Kylo learned from Luke, he’d have built a more conventional saber, and if Kylo didn’t learn from Luke, there’s no reason to think anyone else did. It would also justify his unimpressive performance against Rey, since in this scenario he wouldn’t need to have been a particularly skilled duelist to wipe out Luke’s academy or whatever he called it (Praxeum? 😉).

I agree. The thought had occurred to me when I was writing a post here a few days ago. Makes perfect sense to me.

I guess the question you ask is, how long was Ben training under Luke? A lot of things are unclear at this point, unfortunately, but it sounds like Ben went off to train with Luke before he was a full grown adult and hasn’t been seen by his parents since. Sounds to me like he could have been a teenager. I suspect it’s been about ten years since his purge of Luke’s academy so he probably wouldn’t have been a student for too long so not having a lightsaber is not inconceivable.

I think it’s possible Luke was avoiding teaching them how to build a lightsaber because he didn’t think it would be necessary. “A Jedi uses his power for knowledge and defense, never attack.”