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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 22

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EMPIRE TFA ‘SPOILER SPECIAL’ PODCAST (includes an interview with Lawrence Kasdan)

https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/star-wars-the-force-awakens-spoiler-special-with-lawrence-kasdan

For those of you aren’t familiar with it, ‘EMPIRE’ is a brilliant monthly movie magazine here in the UK. Their podcasts are excellent and this is well worth listening to if you have a spare hour and a half.

War does not make one great.

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SilverWook said:

ZkinandBonez said:

The real question is if they’ll actually call him Plageuis, or if he’ll just make some vague comment about having trained Palpatine.
Either way, I won’t really mind if it’s dealt with in the proper fashion.

But if he actually is Plageuis, why the whole Knights of Ren thing? Isn’t Plageuis supposed to be a Sith?

Kylo could have formed his band of knights before meeting Snoke. As we only see them in the Force vision, do we even know these guys are still alive?

That Snoke likes to appear as a 50 foot hologram, (and Kylo apparently is the only one we know that’s met him in person) makes me wonder if he’s pulling a Balok.

I like the Balok idea, and that would kind of make sense. Of course he could be trying to fool Hux instead, or it could be both. He seems old and weak, so it would make sense that he would try and appear stronger than he is. Also, in a recent “review” of the TFA novelization it was pointed out that Snoke appears to fear Luke, and that the Starkiller Base attack on the Resistance base is rushed and seemingly desperate. We could end up with a very frail and weak villain operating everything behind the curtains.

However, Kylo/Ben did not form the Knights of Ren according to a recent interview with Adam Driver. He describes them as a group that existed before his fall to the dark side.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Well lads, buckle in, as I finally sat down to type out my thoughts now that I saw it for the third time last night. Honestly I doubt anyone cares, but I’ve loved seeing everyone else’s thoughts and reactions, so I figured I’d share mine. To be honest, almost all of my thoughts have been shared by someone or another at one point. Everyone is going to have their own truth about how good the movie is, and my thoughts definitely mirror bits and pieces from many of the members here. Main ideas all in CAPS:

REY: Loved her. I thought Daisy knocked it out of the park in terms of acting, and I liked the character a lot. On my second and third re-watches I was able to appreciate the depth and subtlety to her acting. I think the criticism that she became too good with the Force too soon is valid, to an extent. Personally, I believe she did have some Force training when she was little, as well as that when she had her little battle of the minds with Kylo, it ‘awoke’ something in her. (That second point I am nearly sure of; I just wish they showed it in the movie better).

FINN: I thought Boyega did a great job acting the character, nothing to fault there. However, I wasn’t super sold on the character himself, if that makes sense. Some of the things he said and how he acted made him seem more like someone from our world, not someone in the Star Wars universe. The ‘cute boyfriend’ line really stood out to me, for example.

KYLO REN: Fantastic. Adam Driver is an incredible actor, and one of the characters I was extremely skeptical about turned into one of the movie’s strengths. He seemed like a Darth Vader wannabe, and that’s exactly what he was, yet somehow he wasn’t a crappy character, and actually conveyed intimidation. A couple of things there: I think his effortless and effective use of the Force helped with this (I loved that). I also noticed they really always emphasized his heavy footsteps, which added to the feeling of foreboding. Lastly, I saw someone mention on Reddit once (unrelated to SW) how hard it is to act with a mask on (honestly harder than with your normal face), and Driver absolutely nailed the subtle movements and small touches.

BB-8: Another character that I was immensely skeptical of, but turned out to be one of the movie’s strengths. Honestly, everything about BB-8 was great. The subtle movements were spot-on. I had thought the character might be gimmicky, but on the whole, he was very earnest, and was a solid plus to the movie.

POE: Love Oscar Isaac, and think he did well with the time he had here. Honestly, he wasn’t in it that much so there’s not much else to say. I did like the humorous ‘who talks first’ exchange with Kylo, that was the perfect level of humor for a SW movie in my opinion.

PHASMA: Barely in it, her hype was built up too high for some reason. It definitely seems to be a Boba Fett scenario to me. Plotwise, I feel a Captain as important as her would die before taking down the shields, so that annoyed me somewhat, and if she turns out to be a thorn in the Resistance’s side in the future, I’m also going to be annoyed that they didn’t take the chance to kill her.

HAN SOLO: Harrison killed it, and as others have said, he was ‘Han Solo’ and not ‘Harrison Ford acting.’

PRINCESS LEIA: Not much to say here. I personally wish she had more to do and say, but if she wasn’t up to the acting task, so be it.

LUKE SKYWALKER: Definitely wish he was in the movie more. I still think that’s a mistake, but with that being said, I recognize this is a trilogy of movies to tell a story, so his role may simply be more geared towards the next couple of movies. In terms of him disappearing and hiding, I really don’t like that. I don’t think that is how Luke Skywalker would act. In terms of his physical appearance, I absolutely loved it. Just loved it. A great look for him.

THE MUSIC: I was really counting on Williams’ score to be a strength of the movie, and I was honestly let down. I think the lack of a ‘flagship’ song hurt (which was one thing I personally did like about the prequels). After my first viewing, I was definitely disappointed. However, after my multiple views and listening to the soundtrack on a nice sound system at home, I have softened my views. As someone else said somewhere here, it had more of a ‘serial adventure’ type of vibe, rather than an epic vibe. I like epic, so again, for me personally, I was a bit sad. I can acknowledge its effectiveness though. It did what it needed to do, but didn’t contribute much else above and beyond in my opinion. Rey’s theme was the definite strength in my eyes.

HAN SOLO’S DEATH: Sigh. There’s a lot to say here. Undeniable fact: Everyone in the movie theater knew it was coming during that scene. I feel like that is pretty objective. Now, whether that is a bad thing is up for debate (I’m torn). Now, into the subjective realm: there is a lot of talk that it was a disrespectful death or could have been handled better. I can definitely see this, but at the same time, I think my recent generation who has been exposed to Game of Thrones realizes that death in real-life isn’t glamorous. It’s sudden and brutal. So from that angle, I can understand the decision. However, Star Wars is not Game of Thrones, and it is not real life. So maybe the character did deserve better, like going out by sacrificing himself or via some other heroic, noble deed. I think my final conclusion is that it could have been done better, but I’m hard-pressed to say what exactly I wish happened.

SNOKE: A huge weakness. I’m not happy about him and honestly his existence. The look was done poorly, the CGI was unnecessary, and the fact that he was just a clone of Emperor Palpatine was blah. This is a feeling that actually got stronger on my re-watches. A large weakness in the movie.

MAZ: On my re-watches, I also realized she was a weakness. I’m actually struggling to figure it out exactly, but she was just a generally boring character. She just kind of… existed, again if that makes sense. It seemed like she was only there to usher the plot along. And her castle being a ripoff of the cantina was also blah.

PLOT: Speaking of ripoffs and the plot, I think we arrive to the main weakness: the plot. As has been well-documented, it was a straight rip-off/clone of A New Hope. I have seen people trying to argue against that, and honestly, don’t listen to them. It was. That’s all there is to it. I’m honestly fine borrowing elements from the originals, but truthfully, I think it went a bit overboard. Abandoned child, desert planet, secret in a droid, big planet destroyer, LITERALLY A TRENCH leading to the final run to destroy the weapon, etc. This one makes me sad. I expected more from JJ here.

STARKILLER BASE: And how we get to a huge part of the plot weakness, the existence of the Starkiller Base. That was pretty poor. I really don’t know how to justify that. The closest I’ve seen here, and it’s a fair point, is thinking about nukes in our world, and how much they have dominated history since they’ve been developed. I can acknowledge that, but still think it was a poor decision in terms of movie-making to include it.

POLITICS: I think they went too far the opposite direction of the prequels, by not including enough political explanations. The whole Republic and Resistance and First Order thing needed to be explained more. The explanation floating around (from the Visual Dictionary I think) is perfectly fine; they should have included that somehow.

R2-D2 and C-3PO: R2 suddenly waking up at the end was iffy, but I suspect it’s because Rey was there (first time she was at that base). The whole map as a missing puzzle piece that apparently no one knew where it was from also was iffy to me. As I saw someone mentioning here, C-3PO’s color did seem off; he wasn’t as shiny. However, his purpose in life of cockblocking Han Solo was reaffirmed, and was excellently done.

THE LIGHTSABER FIGHT: I can’t understand the criticism of this scene. It was great, honestly the best of the movie. People saying that Kylo shouldn’t have been beaten is just silly to me. He took a shot from a Wookie bowcaster. Finn was a trained soldier who knew how to fight. Rey was shown as very competent with a staff on Jakku, and was starting to get her Force feet under her. The interaction with the environment was great, and just the raw, primal instincts were captured well. And when Rey caught the lightsaber… that legitimately gave me chills.

FINAL THOUGHTS: Wow, sorry I rambled on. That was a lot. Since I was pointing out specific nitpicks, I probably came across more negatively than I actually feel. It was a good movie, don’t let any Debbie Downers tell you it was bad. In fact, it was honestly quite enjoyable. With that all being said, I drank a bit too much of the Kool-Aid, and I was expecting at least a bit more from JJ. I think the most telling facet of all of this, though, is that I’m genuinely excited for Episode VIII. I really do want to see what happens, and I care about the characters.

May the Force be with you.

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SS4DarthPayne said:
FINN: I thought Boyega did a great job acting the character, nothing to fault there. However, I wasn’t super sold on the character himself, if that makes sense. Some of the things he said and how he acted made him seem more like someone from our world, not someone in the Star Wars universe. The ‘cute boyfriend’ line really stood out to me, for example.

I actually brought this up too, either in this thread, or one of the other threads, but yes, “cute boyfriend” took me out of the film for a few seconds there. Another poster pointed out to me that “girlfriend” has been mentioned in another SW film, Attack of the Clones. I had forgotten about it, but at least the actor who played Owen said it in a subdued tone rather than the fanboyish delivery by Boyega. Also, soon after, he said, “Droid, please” which to my ears sounds like internet speak, i.e. “Droid pls”

It really comes across as too Earthy.

The Rise of Failures

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SilverWook said:

And we have our first member named for a sequel character, I think?

I believe so. And - I’m a little bit jealous. 😉

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TavorX said:

SS4DarthPayne said:
FINN: I thought Boyega did a great job acting the character, nothing to fault there. However, I wasn’t super sold on the character himself, if that makes sense. Some of the things he said and how he acted made him seem more like someone from our world, not someone in the Star Wars universe. The ‘cute boyfriend’ line really stood out to me, for example.

I actually brought this up too, either in this thread, or one of the other threads, but yes, “cute boyfriend” took me out of the film for a few seconds there. Another poster pointed out to me that “girlfriend” has been mentioned in another SW film, Attack of the Clones. I had forgotten about it, but at least the actor who played Owen said it in a subdued tone rather than the fanboyish delivery by Boyega. Also, soon after, he said, “Droid, please” which to my ears sounds like internet speak, i.e. “Droid pls”

It really comes across as too Earthy.

Earthy! That’s a great way to put it. Agreed on all accounts - I felt the same about the ‘Droid please’ line

May the Force be with you.

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Saying Maz’s bar is a cantina ripoff is like saying Applebee’s is a knockoff of TGI Fridays. A bar filled with aliens is going to be pretty much the same wherever you go in the SW universe. The sort of people Han usually deals with aren’t going to hang out at the GFFA version of Chuck E. Cheese’s. 😉

Sleazy dives are more interesting than the Buffalo Wild Wings Anakin and Obi Wan visited in AOTC, or Dex’s diner.

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Where were you in '77?

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To me, it kinda felt like “well, we have to put a Cantina scene in the movie.” It felt shoehorned in and not necessary. Maz could’ve been based anywhere, really. Didn’t have to be a bar.

Not huge things, but I also wasn’t really a fan of 1) First Order spies being there, 2) a Resistance spy being there, and 3) Finn seeking transport with a couple guys like Ben and Luke were trying to do in ANH.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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SpilkaBilka said:
Not huge things, but I also wasn’t really a fan of 1) First Order spies being there, 2) a Resistance spy being there, and 3) Finn seeking transport with a couple guys like Ben and Luke were trying to do in ANH.

I actually thought that was a really clever way to show us that the Resistance and the First Order are on a pretty equal footing in the galaxy at this point in history. That is as apposed to the OT where the Rebels were a small group of freedom fighters, and the Empire spanned the galaxy. Now, thirty years later, they are two more or less equally sized military forces, each with their own spy-network.
(It’s also a decent plot-reason for having the Resistance show up to save the day during the FO attack.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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I get the plot reason for it. It’s just that it’s a couple more coincidences to add to the pile in a movie that has so many coincidences.

It’s hard to describe, but I didn’t really like the “set up” of having spies there. Also, for many reasons I won’t get into here, the Maz sequence just kinda took me out of the movie for a while. Pacing is one of them.

Again, let me just say, these are minor points. Overall, I think it’s a VERY good movie, but one that has some big problems. I’ve only seen it once but I’m dying to see it again (seeing it in a couple days). Absolutely can’t wait for it to come out on blu ray, and for Episode VIII.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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Will the BluRay version have “NOOOOOO” spliced into Han’s death scene?

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SpilkaBilka said:

How has no one on this site made a “and then the DSIII blows up” joke yet???

No, no one has word for word of what you said (to my knowledge).
However, yes, just about every single Star Wars fan, including most on this site, has pointed out Starkiller = Death Star III. It’d be an overused joke by this point and TFA isn’t even released on DVD yet!

The Rise of Failures

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Swazzy said:

I just found the line they used to have Alec Guinness say Rey’s name

“Come here, little one! Don’t be afREYd.”

[And here it is in TFA @57]LINK REMOVED

I find it so amusing how they pulled this off. It’s such a fanedit-y thing to do.

Or perhaps it’s the other way around. My cynical side postulates that the name “Rey” was chosen specifically to match sounds uttered by Guinness.

They told me they’d fixed it!

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TheWanderingNomad said:
In Star Wars, we had a set up of how important the Death Star was – the stolen plans, the destruction of Alderaan – and the political state of the galaxy – Obi Wan talking about the destruction of the Jedi and the Imperial officers on the Death Star discussing the disbanding of the Imperial Senate. In contrast, the Starkiller base was just there – there was no sense that the Resistance was trying to find it. You cared about the destruction of Alderaan because it was Leia’s home planet. Why should we care about the never-before-mentioned Hosnian system? (And how did they see the destruction from Maz’s castle?)

That shot with the planets destruction being visible from Maz’s castle established beyond any reasonable doubt that Takodana is in the Hosnian system.

They told me they’d fixed it!

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trimboNZ said:

TheWanderingNomad said:
In Star Wars, we had a set up of how important the Death Star was – the stolen plans, the destruction of Alderaan – and the political state of the galaxy – Obi Wan talking about the destruction of the Jedi and the Imperial officers on the Death Star discussing the disbanding of the Imperial Senate. In contrast, the Starkiller base was just there – there was no sense that the Resistance was trying to find it. You cared about the destruction of Alderaan because it was Leia’s home planet. Why should we care about the never-before-mentioned Hosnian system? (And how did they see the destruction from Maz’s castle?)

That shot with the planets destruction being visible from Maz’s castle established beyond any reasonable doubt that Takodana is in the Hosnian system.

Apparently, it is a quarter of the way across the galaxy from the Hosnian system.

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There’s this little detail that I’m not sure someone already mentioned, but wow. I totally forgot about Rey marking the days in her little hut. When I first saw it in theaters, I was initally thinking, “For what reason is she marking the days that pass?”

Then, I stumbled upon some TFA fanart, and NOW did it fucking hit me. She was obviously doing a “Days passed of no sign of parents returning”. Touching little detail that I forgot happened since I only saw this film once and rarely seen mentioned.

The Rise of Failures

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SpilkaBilka said:

To me, it kinda felt like “well, we have to put a Cantina scene in the movie.” It felt shoehorned in and not necessary. Maz could’ve been based anywhere, really. Didn’t have to be a bar.

Not huge things, but I also wasn’t really a fan of 1) First Order spies being there, 2) a Resistance spy being there, and 3) Finn seeking transport with a couple guys like Ben and Luke were trying to do in ANH.

A seedy den crawling with spies for both sides was a thing when sound movies were new.

We might get a Casablanca planet in Star Wars yet.

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Where were you in '77?

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ZkinandBonez said:

SpilkaBilka said:

To me, it kinda felt like “well, we have to put a Cantina scene in the movie.” It felt shoehorned in and not necessary. Maz could’ve been based anywhere, really. Didn’t have to be a bar.

Not huge things, but I also wasn’t really a fan of 1) First Order spies being there, 2) a Resistance spy being there, and 3) Finn seeking transport with a couple guys like Ben and Luke were trying to do in ANH.

I actually thought that was a really clever way to show us that the Resistance and the First Order are on a pretty equal footing in the galaxy at this point in history. That is as apposed to the OT where the Rebels were a small group of freedom fighters, and the Empire spanned the galaxy. Now, thirty years later, they are two more or less equally sized military forces, each with their own spy-network.
(It’s also a decent plot-reason for having the Resistance show up to save the day during the FO attack.)

SilverWook said:

A seedy den crawling with spies for both sides was a thing when sound movies were new.

We might get a Casablanca planet in Star Wars yet.

All of this. One of the interesting things the movie does is take what is obviously the ANH plot template, but then fill each element with something original. And this might not even qualify as one of the copied elements - where the hell else are smugglers going to congregate and meet contacts? Their moms house? If this was a Tarantino film maybe.

Although I did almost roll my eyes when they showed the band.

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Honestly, I think it would have been unbelievable if there weren’t spies there. And anyway, I thought the First Order spy might have actually been a bounty hunter?

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Swazzy said:

I just found the line they used to have Alec Guinness say Rey’s name

“Come here, little one! Don’t be afREYd.”

[And here it is in TFA @57]LINK REMOVED

I find it so amusing how they pulled this off. It’s such a fanedit-y thing to do.

I’m sure they were excited about all of the fan points they were going to get for this. And boy, did I give them. This was just beautiful. In fact I doubt they ever would have thought of it without /giving themselves/ fan points for doing so.

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trimboNZ said:

Swazzy said:

I just found the line they used to have Alec Guinness say Rey’s name

“Come here, little one! Don’t be afREYd.”

[And here it is in TFA @57]LINK REMOVED

I find it so amusing how they pulled this off. It’s such a fanedit-y thing to do.

Or perhaps it’s the other way around. My cynical side postulates that the name “Rey” was chosen specifically to match sounds uttered by Guinness.

Seems more irrational than cynical.

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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but was the lightsaber ignition sound for anakin/lukes saber accurate to the OT? it sounded different to me