I do hope Snoke has some other name that will be used as it’s just a bit rubbish.
I suspect he’s some old sith dude hanging out on the outer rim for 100s of years waiting patiently for an opportunity.
There’s quite a lot of KOTOR chat going around, never played it but it seems to be in my Steam Library maybe I should give it a go
p.s For those that wish to indulge in a bit of TFA humour emo Kylo feed https://twitter.com/KyloR3n/
double post sorry
cyclista said:
I’d say Rowling definitely intends that the Good side is the right one, whereas Lucasfilm seems conflicted
This is a thing that I’m tired of. The prequels should have taken a noble man, Anakin Skywalker, and given him some kind of hamartia, and allowed that to lead to his downfall and ultimate turn to the dark side of the force.
Instead, we got one pointless movie about a kid, and then two movies about a whiny teenager who was already rotten to the core, that attempted to construct an alternate reality, one that absolved the bad guy from any responsibility of his actions. The underlying message was, frankly, disgusting.
This is the subtext of the Star Wars “Saga”, the one the prequel fanboys follow Episodes 1-6:
“It’s OK if you make mistakes and do bad things. It’s not your fault, it was someone else who made you do the evil things you did, like the Emperor. This is your story Anakin. We’re all here for you and we all love you and blah blah blah …”
This is like the parent who raises the spawn of the devil because they never hold their child accountable. Everything is an excuse. Someone else’s fault. Their baby makes only small mistakes in life, and nothing big is ever their fault.
Now, go back to 1977. Think of how bleak films of the late 60’s and 70’s were. Think of how fresh the original Star Wars was, because it gave us the good guys who were genuinely good and struggling against the forces of evil and they won. It was unambiguous. It was full of hope. Then think of Empire, how even though the film was so much richer and deeper, it was still, at its core, unambiguous good versus unambiguous evil.
Over time, George Lucas’s story turned into something else that betrayed the heart of those first two films we all know and love. We wound up with a new universe, one that I frankly don’t care for in Star Wars. It was the single biggest thing wrong with the design of the prequels (not the execution). And if we see any more emo bitchy adolescent angst from the likes of Kylo in this new trilogy, I’m going to be really pissed off about it. I loved the dude when he had his mask on, because he was coming across as a pure bad-ass. I don’t need that villain to take off his mask and show me his tender heart, how he’s really a good guy deep down inside and we all need to turn him back to the good side. Fuck that guy. I want Rey to defeat him. I want to see him punished for all the evil things he’s done. This isn’t General Hospital. I want to see the good guys win and the bad guys lose. That is Star Wars to me.
I don’t need that villain to take off his mask and show me his tender heart, how he’s really a good guy deep down inside and we all need to turn him back to the good side. Fuck that guy. I want Rey to defeat him. I want to see him punished for all the evil things he’s done. This isn’t General Hospital. I want to see the good guys win and the bad guys lose. That is Star Wars to me.
I don’t think we will see him turn good. Although similar to Anakin is some respects who turns to the Dark side out of desperation, at least in the case in ROTS, but you get hints at it when talking to Luke - “It is too late for me” etc. Kylo seems hell bent on the dark side out of choice alone. He’s much younger than Vader and not as battle hardened so we don’t get the pure mechanical villain.
This
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
cyclista said:
I’d say Rowling definitely intends that the Good side is the right one, whereas Lucasfilm seems conflictedThis is a thing that I’m tired of. The prequels should have taken a noble man, Anakin Skywalker, and given him some kind of hamartia, and allowed that to lead to his downfall and ultimate turn to the dark side of the force.
I figure you’re referring to the “Lucasfilm seems conflicted” part of that statement, and I think there is another way I mean 'conflicted". First of all, I am with you 100% about several of the things you say. Kylo Ren: fuck that guy. I don’t care about his redemption. When Han touched his face before falling, it was sad in a pathetic kind of way, the emotional connection of a father to his revolting serial-killer son. The tragedy was there on so many levels. And if Leia tries to “save” her son in the future, I understand, but I will in no way be rooting for her to succeed. I want him gone, like I wanted Geoffrey from GoT gone. He’s a whiny scumbag and I don’t care about what he wants.
I also agree about Anakin’s arc in the prequels. He was also a whiny loser (though not a scumbag) and I don’t see why we should care about his turning to the good; does he get a pass on the millions he’s killed if he does? What?! Hell no.
I’m glad he saw the light before he died, and I think that was a fine turn of events. There’s no Christian-like God or Hell that we know of in Star Wars, and I think in that case even if he is beyond social redemption, cosmically speaking he can be sort of a flipped bit from 0 to 1 (or the reverse, whichever) if his soul is immortal (but not destined for Heaven or Hell), which in the SWU does seem to be the case. But this isn’t the same as the ridiculous suggestion that everything is ok now, and that if Vader had lived he’d be hanging out with the Rebels at their base and shit. Nope.
Thanks for introducing me to he word “hamartia”, by the way.
Yeah, I agree about these characters having personal responsibility required of them, in the final analysis. But leading up to that analysis there does need to be considered the fact that these kids (Kylo and Anakin) are damaged and full of more power than they can handle - think Tetsuo. Great power requires great control and a stable foundation, and this is something Harry Potter has, despite his crappy childhood. Anakin and Kylo are just too fucked up to resist their own power - and they both have cunning opportunistic handlers all too willing to manage it for them. So they have responsibility, and they are accountable, and we are justified in hating them, but they are victims of circumstance (part of which is the sly ambitions of others) as well. In a lot of ways I think Mace Windu’s scorn could have hurt Anakin’s chances of being able to do good, in that Mace could have been one more influence encouraging his wisdom and better judgement rather than just giving him suspicious looks and discouraging comments, though I doubt he could have fixed the problem alltogether.
As for “conflicted”, I simply refer to the “balance to The Force” aspect of the SWU, which I think goes back to ANH and ESB. And also why I invoked The Dark Crystal. I don’t think it refers to it being ok to destroy Alderaan or murder people, more to a presence of passion without corruption, rational thought without sterility, temperance without inertia.
As for Leia and Chewie not consoling each other: I took as Chewie not realizing Leia already knew Han was dead. I thought maybe it was too difficult for Chewie to bring himself to tell her. Put yourself in Chewie’s shoes. If your best friend died, would it be easy for you to be the one to tell his/her spouse? As for Chewie taking off with Rey to find to Luke, I had no problem with it. Even with Han dead, Chewie would still want to do his duty.
This is honestly the BEST answer I’ve seen for this criticism. I never could quite pinpoint why Chewie didn’t, but after reading this, I fully back this.
Not bad as far as imaginary justifications go, but this still isn’t visible onscreen, and ultimately this would only be satisfactory if it was referenced or constructed in some way in extended footage or the next movie. If Leia knows there’s something to console Rey about, she knows there is definitely something to console Chewie about.
My guess is that it was a not-exactly-successful attempt to show that “Leia knows something”. So fine, maybe we will see exactly what in the next film. But the aggregate is still that whether we are discussing Leia and Chewie or some other events succeeding Han’s death, the effect of his death was really flat onscreen. Which sucked because he proved himself compelling for the entire prior part of the film. I’m not demanding a ten minute funeral scene or something, I’m just saying that we needed to see way more emotional fallout, somehow.
And I stand by the following that I wrote earlier, just because it would be cool and expand Chewbacca’a character:
Chewbacca should for the most part leave the rebellion as a consistent soldier and become a sort of bounty hunter specializing in collecting sith heads, or if that is too NC-17, then sith lightsabers, which Luke or Rey or Finn modify to produce white, blue, or green blades. Chewie can show up at some point in a room that everyone is in and drop an armload of sith lightsabers onto a table while everyone in the room stares at them and goes pale. The modified lightsabers can be given to new jedis in training, and the combo of sith hardware and jedi colors can be a small symbol of the light and dark sides beginning to find balance.
And Chewie’s look should definitely change to reflect his state, maybe more weapons, dirtier fur. Maybe some of the war leaders on Kashyyyk could be used as stylistic references as well, for cultural consistency.
It’s been done already. 😉
Where were you in '77?
MULLET
WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF THAT
I’M ADDING MULLET TO THE LIST
BRILLIANT
Duracell, I have some bad news…
Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77
The real question is if they’ll actually call him Plageuis, or if he’ll just make some vague comment about having trained Palpatine.
Either way, I won’t really mind if it’s dealt with in the proper fashion.
But if he actually is Plageuis, why the whole Knights of Ren thing? Isn’t Plageuis supposed to be a Sith?
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.
Duracell, I have some bad news…
I’m not quite sold that it confirms anything.
John Williams probably has ‘fine tuned’ what he believes is a dark mysterious theme for the appropriate scene. Prequel soundtrack bits slip in the TFA soundtrack in other places too. Could merely be an evolution of what John Williams thinks Star Wars should sound like, so it happens to blend Prequel/OT/New’ish elements together.
The last thing Abrams or Disney would want to be a distinguished product would be to imply, “Yo, I know you all were burned bad by the Prequels, but dudes, if you wanna know why this baddie is in our new stories, go back to the Prequels to know why!”
It really sounds too ridiculous that Palpatine had a higher up throughout the OT. Just sounds like more, “HAHA, TWISTS TWISTS CUZ, TWISTS!” fodder.
From what I’ve read, this Snoke character has seen the Empire rise and fall, but so far, I haven’t read a blurb saying he’s seen multiple powers rise and fall, like the Republic.
Just for the love of Jar Jar, let Snoke be a new character that has no ties to anyone. Just an old alien whom has seen the flaws of the previous Empire and has his own vision of how to run the Galaxy/Force.
The Rise of Failures
- The cgi characters don’t work, specially Snoke, I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t be practical effects
+1
I’m not anti-CGI, but somehow it just doesn’t feel right in the Star Wars universe (for characters - ships are OK).
- While it’s a shame we didn’t get another scene with Han, Luke and Leia together, watching Carrie Fisher again, I don’t think she could handle a bigger role.
I thought it would have been awesome if somewhere in between ROTJ and TFA Leia had retrieved Luke’s lightsaber and it was her who gives it to Rey and tells her about the force (which would remove the need for Orange Yoda and the Mos Eisley Castle, and make Leia more important to the overall story). But then I remembered that Carrie Fisher is frazzled to the point of barely being able to string a complete sentence together on camera and figured Orange Yoda is probably for the best… although a puppet / human in a suit would have been better than CGI.
War does not make one great.
How has luke been training others for 30 odd year or fighting without a light sabre?
Either that, or he built a new one. He’s done it before so it shouldn’t too hard by now.
Also Luke’s definitely been hiding out for several years, so I wouldn’t say that he’s been training Jedi for 30 years.
Whe Luke returned to Endor he had his lightsaber.
Duracell, I have some bad news…
Meh.
At this point, I expect nothing but mediocrity from the ST. If true, this won’t change anything.
When can we pre-order? That’s right, my Star Wars DVD collection is about to double in size. 😉. Already have the soundtrack and the novelization. Alan Dean Foster. Awesome. Someone who wrote the sequel to Star Wars and has a firm understanding of The GFFA.
I already pre-ordered at a Dutch webshop called bol.com! Don’t know if they do international delivery.
I wonder if the score would have been better if it was recorded in London instead of LA? I know William’s age prevented that. Its still a good score, btw.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
Actually I really liked TFA! I know the story is almost the same as ANH but wouldn’t everyone be very angry if JJ brought us a totally new/original/different film than like IV/V/VI? I think they wanted to introduce the new characters in a classic/tradition way in TFA so they are able to bring more new stuf in the next films.
For me TFA was like a great rollercoaster ride 😄 but offcourse it could be better… In my opinion Rey was a little bit (read: a little bit very much) over powered for someone who (as far as we know) is untrained with the force. How strong will Rey be if she gets trained by Luke?
And yeah, me Kylo Ren was amazing, he’s a great bad-guy who even dares to kill his father! Wondering how powerful he will become when he finished his training because it was a little disappointing how weak he was against Rey (Yeah people I know he was shot before but still… Rey was untrained!)
I would rate TFO with an 8
And we have our first member named for a sequel character, I think?
Where were you in '77?
And we have our first member named for a sequel character, I think?
That’s what hit me too. “Oh hello member named after new character”
checks join date
Damn, you claimed yours in time!
Rey said:
I would rate TFO with an 8
I know this is a typo, but it could still kinda work: TFO = The First Order
The Rise of Failures
When can we pre-order? That’s right, my Star Wars DVD collection is about to double in size. 😉. Already have the soundtrack and the novelization. Alan Dean Foster. Awesome. Someone who wrote the sequel to Star Wars and has a firm understanding of The GFFA.
I about spit out my gum. Amazing.
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress
I know the story is almost the same as ANH but wouldn’t everyone be very angry if JJ brought us a totally new/original/different film than like IV/V/VI?
Not everyone. I can watch ANH if I want to watch ANH; I didn’t need to pay to see it again.
I’m fully expecting the same formulaic approach for VIII and IX. Maybe they’ll even treat us to Death Star 4!
MTFBWY…A
When can we pre-order? That’s right, my Star Wars DVD collection is about to double in size. 😉. Already have the soundtrack and the novelization. Alan Dean Foster. Awesome. Someone who wrote the sequel to Star Wars and has a firm understanding of The GFFA.
I love that Anchorhead likes this movie!
War does not make one great.
The real question is if they’ll actually call him Plageuis, or if he’ll just make some vague comment about having trained Palpatine.
Either way, I won’t really mind if it’s dealt with in the proper fashion.
I’m cool with a vague reference to having trained Palpatine (in fact, the idea of an ancient Sith lord, the grand-daddy of them all, is kinda cool), but anything that directly links the new trilogy to the prequels (eg. specifically calling him Darth Plaguis) will make me cry.
War does not make one great.
The real question is if they’ll actually call him Plageuis, or if he’ll just make some vague comment about having trained Palpatine.
Either way, I won’t really mind if it’s dealt with in the proper fashion.But if he actually is Plageuis, why the whole Knights of Ren thing? Isn’t Plageuis supposed to be a Sith?
Kylo could have formed his band of knights before meeting Snoke. As we only see them in the Force vision, do we even know these guys are still alive?
That Snoke likes to appear as a 50 foot hologram, (and Kylo apparently is the only one we know that’s met him in person) makes me wonder if he’s pulling a Balok.
Where were you in '77?
