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The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe — Page 2

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xhonzi said:

Tom Veitch referred to "Prison Ships used to Transport Jedi during the Clone Wars" early in Dark Empire.  It boggles my mind what he might have been thinking when he wrote that.

Zahn wrote that the Dark Side cave on Dagobah was so since several Dark Jedi from Bpfassh (sp?) died/were destroyed there.  Kind of an interesting thought.

Of course the spaarti cylinders are an interesting item.  The whole bit about how it took a year to grow a full blown clone and the issue with the force driving them mad...

I get the impression from Zahn that cloning Jedi was definitely a big goal during the Clone Wars, but was darn near impossible.

I think Luke&Leia's mom gets a name in one of the books.

I think Luke's dad was called "Tam Skywalker" in one of the early Marvel comics.  But he was called Anakin before the OT was over (at least according to Kenner), so you can probably safely throw that out.

The Archie Goodwin Star Wars daily comic strips referred, once, to Luke's father as a "Tan Skywalker". I'm assuming this would be pronounced like Han but with the T. However, as we all know, Vader/Luke's dad is called and referenced as Anakin Skywalker several times (by Luke and Obi-Wan). 

The "Tan" name has been ret-conned as an honorific title given to great pilots by the society where the supercomputer is from that says this name. 

-Someone, someday, needs to bring back the LIGHT SIDE to Star Wars.  Has anyone else noticed striking similarites between the character of Anakin/Vader and George Lucas, or is it just me? 

-It's called STAR WARS. NOT "Episode IV: A New Hope". Kids, get this straight.  

-Please read the Archie Goodwin daily SW comics: Too good to be forgotten! 

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Star Wars Purist said:


The "Tan" name has been ret-conned as an honorific title given to great pilots by the society where the supercomputer is from that says this name. 


*eyeroll*

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

 

Star Wars Purist said:


The "Tan" name has been ret-conned as an honorific title given to great pilots by the society where the supercomputer is from that says this name. 


*eyeroll*

 

haha!  Star Wars is no stranger to ret-cons.  It all started with Darth Vader's most famous line of dialogue! 

-Someone, someday, needs to bring back the LIGHT SIDE to Star Wars.  Has anyone else noticed striking similarites between the character of Anakin/Vader and George Lucas, or is it just me? 

-It's called STAR WARS. NOT "Episode IV: A New Hope". Kids, get this straight.  

-Please read the Archie Goodwin daily SW comics: Too good to be forgotten! 

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Yeah, but retconning in the EU has gotten so far out of hand that it's become a massive coronary of a joke.

Take the post-ROTJ Marvel comics for example. Those stories outright declare that the Empire swiftly collapsed following the Battle of Endor, leaving only a few remnants here and there. But, more-or-less beginning with the Thrawn trilogy, the later EU in the 90s depicted an Empire that stayed strong following the Battle of Endor, only collapsing several more years of conflict with the Rebels. These two takes on the post-ROTJ Empire don't mesh at all, but that hasn't stopped the losers who run the EU from shoving round pegs into square holes and declaring it all as "canon".

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See they should have gone with Tan being a nickname Anakin hated that got so frequently mentioned that various star systems assume that's his name. Could have some fun with it at least. 

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Yeah, but retconning in the EU has gotten so far out of hand that it's become a massive coronary of a joke.

Take the post-ROTJ Marvel comics for example. Those stories outright declare that the Empire swiftly collapsed following the Battle of Endor, leaving only a few remnants here and there. But, more-or-less beginning with the Thrawn trilogy, the later EU in the 90s depicted an Empire that stayed strong following the Battle of Endor, only collapsing several more years of conflict with the Rebels. These two takes on the post-ROTJ Empire don't mesh at all, but that hasn't stopped the losers who run the EU from shoving round pegs into square holes and declaring it all as "canon".

I haven't read the Marvel series up to the post-ROTJ era, but doesn't that fit with The Thrawn Trilogy, which shows only a few Imperial "remnants here and there", one of which really only shows itself once Thrawn and his great scheme comes into play? I will agree that the Post-Thrawn books such as "Truce at Bakura" and so forth show a very much alive Empire.  Personally, I definitely liked Zahn's vision the best, where the Empire was markedly wounded and limited, yet still present.  The post-ROTJ Marvel series seems unrealistic (even for a Marvel series fan such as myself) and a lot of those post-Thrawn '90s books make it seem as though ROTJ never happened! 

As for all the ret-cons?  Yes.  They're terrible.  I don't mind ones such as the "Tan" one, since an original trilogy film overrides it.  Now when the Prequels and Prequel-related works ret-con things...then I get a little pissed, as I know you yourself did.  We both remember how cool The Clone Wars and Darth Vader & Boba Fett's origins were before Lucas got involved...

-Someone, someday, needs to bring back the LIGHT SIDE to Star Wars.  Has anyone else noticed striking similarites between the character of Anakin/Vader and George Lucas, or is it just me? 

-It's called STAR WARS. NOT "Episode IV: A New Hope". Kids, get this straight.  

-Please read the Archie Goodwin daily SW comics: Too good to be forgotten! 

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...Or should I say when Lucas got "re-involved" with Star Wars in the late 90s.  His initial ideas on those subjects in the 70s-80s were pretty great, IMO. Such as his films from that time period! 

-Someone, someday, needs to bring back the LIGHT SIDE to Star Wars.  Has anyone else noticed striking similarites between the character of Anakin/Vader and George Lucas, or is it just me? 

-It's called STAR WARS. NOT "Episode IV: A New Hope". Kids, get this straight.  

-Please read the Archie Goodwin daily SW comics: Too good to be forgotten! 

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I realize I'm a fair bit late to discussion, but I just thought I should share this:

"Silent Drifting" from 1979. 

Wookiepedia plot summary:
"After Han Solo used some skillful piloting of the Millenium Falcon to destroy some TIE fighter, Princess Leia mentioned that Jedi pilots developed that same maneuver and she tells of one particular event involving Obi-Wan Kenobi. Kenobi was traveling as a passenger on a pleasure cruiser when he was notified by Captain Quasar that Merson pirates had been spotted in the Merson asteroid field....."

It almost seems like it was written specifically to avoid any possible contradictions to Lucas' still developing canon (I'm guessing they were aware of ESB being in production at this time). It makes no reference to either the Clone Wars or Anakin. However it does show a considerably cockier Obi-Wan than we got in the PT, and it's interesting how he was simply travelling as a passenger on a "pleasure cruise." It's quite the deviation of the monk-like Jedis of the PT. Obi-Wan does however turn down an "addictive stimulant" at some point, so he's still the disciplined warrior that was implied in the OT.
Obi-Wan also seems to be wearing a costume somewhat similar to what Luke ended up with in ROTJ. Which is interesting considering that this was written in 1979.

I also found a interesting pre-prequel reference to C-3PO's origins: 

According to some notes made by Lucas in 1977 he was constructed at a Cybot Galactica plant on the planet Affa in 112 BBY.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Affa
(The EU has apparently retconned this into the TPM/PT lore so that he was originally built on Affa only to later be dismantled and discarded on the streets of Mos Espa where Anakin eventually found and rebuilt him.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
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DuracellEnergizer said:

Since I abandoned my original PT rewrite, I've been looking forward to doing another whole new one. However, this time I don't want to just make things up out right out of the blue, augmenting it with bits and pieces taken from various sources. This time I want to work within the confines of the Expanded Universe, the Expanded Universe as it existed prior to the release of TPM; there is nothing I want to contradict, regardless of whether I like it or not.

Basically, I'm asking for help in pooling together all the bits and pieces of info pertaining to the EU's original conception of the PT storyline/characters. I know many of posters here aren't into the EU or, at least, are casual fans at best with no intimate knowledge of that aspect of the SW Universe. However, any help would be appreciated, even if it's just basic references to books or links to offsite blogs/sites/etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

A little bit late, but this thread (http://boards.theforce.net/threads/literature-project-the-clone-wars-dossier.3648410/) compiled before AOTC has every reference to the Clone Wars in the EU before the PT.

If you dig deeper into fanlore such as the early PT fanfic, the CW in some circles were commonly viewed as an army of Boba Fetts against the Jedi. Probably a result of the early Bantha Tracks that identified Fett's armor as that of an Imperial Shocktrooper that fought the Jedi during the CW.

http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/displayimage.php?pid=2452

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Frey said:

eldar360 said:

A little bit late, but this thread (http://boards.theforce.net/threads/literature-project-the-clone-wars-dossier.3648410/) compiled before AOTC has every reference to the Clone Wars in the EU before the PT.

 Linky no worky.

 Right here. http://boards.theforce.net/threads/literature-project-the-clone-wars-dossier.3648410/

Screw lightsabers, I’ll stick with regular swords. At least they won’t blow up in my face like this franchise has.

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ZkinandBonez said:

I realize I'm a fair bit late to discussion, but I just thought I should share this:

"Silent Drifting" from 1979. 

 I think someone did post those at some point several years ago, but the links are probably dead now. I really like that design for the jedi. It's simple, but it's very cool, and it makes me wish we had got something similar with the actual prequels (although I'm keener to forgot those films.)

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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 (Edited)

Tales of the Jedi says that there can only be one Dark Lord of the Sith at a time. Because Vader was always said to be a "Dark Lord of the Sith", only one at a time implies that Palpatine isn't one. Also, in Empire's End, when Palpatine goes to Korriban, there's no throne for him although there is one for Vader.

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I remember the orignal trilogy before the prequels. Names like Anakin and the jedi were so mysterious. Im sure we all assumed anakin WAS a great hero that tragically turned to evil. So to get this out the way. In the prequels anakin was not a hero. Obi Wan was the hero yet not the main character (not even in episode 1). Without getting into that my point is the biggest problem with the prequels is ANAKIN and not necessarily the actors take on him its his entire character.

Ok to the point. This is what i remember from comic books and storys before the prequels and i might be off on some of this. Anyway anakin is suppose to be bad fuckin ass. I mean whooping yodas butt on a volcano bad ass. Obi Wan is suppose to be a very powerful and reserved jedi. His master was yoda not qui gon. He was a direct student of Yoda. Oh btw i cant remember if yoda fights Vader before or after he puts on the black suite and mask. And i dont remember if obi wan defeats vader alone or with yodas help. Regardless vader is defeated but brought back by the emperor. The story doesn’t end there. Obi wan and yoda confront vader once more. Sorry there was never a showdown with the emperor that was supposedly being saved for episode X with luke destroying him. i guess all i want to add is that these characters never need much treatment. The basics of these guys was eliminated and we got confused and stupid jedi blinded by the darkside. That was lucasfilms prequels. Anakin needs to be remembered as a great hero. Obi wan doesn’t need to tell jokes or be of any comedic value other then his wise humor. Good luck.

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I remember the orignal trilogy before the prequels. Names like Anakin and the jedi were so mysterious. Im sure we all assumed anakin WAS a great hero that tragically turned to evil. So to get this out the way. In the prequels anakin was not a hero. Obi Wan was the hero yet not the main character (not even in episode 1). Without getting into that my point is the biggest problem with the prequels is ANAKIN and not necessarily the actors take on him its his entire character.

Ok to the point. This is what i remember from comic books and storys before the prequels and i might be off on some of this. Anyway anakin is suppose to be bad fuckin ass. I mean whooping yodas butt on a volcano bad ass. Obi Wan is suppose to be a very powerful and reserved jedi. His master was yoda not qui gon. He was a direct student of Yoda. Oh btw i cant remember if yoda fights Vader before or after he puts on the black suite and mask. And i dont remember if obi wan defeats vader alone or with yodas help. Regardless vader is defeated but brought back by the emperor. The story doesn’t end there. Obi wan and yoda confront vader once more. Sorry there was never a showdown with the emperor that was supposedly being saved for episode X with luke destroying him. i guess all i want to add is that these characters never need much treatment. The basics of these guys was eliminated and we got confused and stupid jedi blinded by the darkside. That was lucasfilms prequels. Anakin needs to be remembered as a great hero. Obi wan doesn’t need to tell jokes or be of any comedic value other then his wise humor. Good luck.

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Endor wasn’t the first time that Palpatine had died.

Palpatine and Jorus C’baoth had been close.

The Clone Wars involved “clone masters” and clone madness.

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Vader actually fell into a volcano, as stated by Lucas in interviews.

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Was it stated by Lucas (the good Lucas of the 70’s and 80’s) or Luucas (his evil clone that took control of his business in the 90’s)?

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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I think Luucas co-directed ROTJ with Lucas, so he was definitely around by the 80’s.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Was it stated by Lucas (the good Lucas of the 70’s and 80’s) or Luucas (his evil clone that took control of his business in the 90’s)?

It was stated in 1977.

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Wasn’t radioactive waste also proposed as the reason of the suit, at some point? I think I read something like that somewhere here.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Wasn’t radioactive waste also proposed as the reason of the suit, at some point? I think I read something like that somewhere here.

Yes, that was in the second draft of ESB. That draft was written after the interview I mentioned but before the Lucas-Kasdan story conference where Lucas famously said that “anyone can use The Force.”

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In Tales of the Jedi, Onderon is ruled by a dark side - wielding family. Maybe the Palpatine family could be similar?

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Frank your Majesty said:

Wasn’t radioactive waste also proposed as the reason of the suit, at some point? I think I read something like that somewhere here.

    Wasn't it stated by McQuarrie or someone that Vader's suit was a means to get him from ship to ship through a vacuum? 
    Does Vader need to be so horribly marred? Could he have taken a sabre through a lung and adopted modified Sith armor?
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The Republic was stated to have had anti-alien elements such as Tarkin that became the Empire. It’s likely that the Republic leadership was entirely human. Anti-alienism doesn’t seem to be an issue in the prequels.

The Thrawn trilogy says that the Dagobah cave came to be as a result of yoda slaying a “dark Jedi” there.