Is the Hobbit prequel trilogy suffering the same problems as the Star Wars prequel Trilogy? — Page 6

Scruffy said:

** My own hobby horse is Luke's dilemma throughout RotJ, and his debate with Obi-Wan Kenobi. As originally envisioned, Luke was right and Kenobi was wrong. There was good in his father, and we see that the old man is good at heart when Darth Vader's aged spirit turns out to be a kindly old man. In the revision, Kenobi was right. Anakin Skywalker really had died when he became evil, and thus his redeemed ghost has the aspect of a young, not-yet-corrupted man. I think this is due to the aging auteur shifting his sympathy from the idealistic youth to the cynical senex, but I might be overthinking it. I don't think there's anything in the LOTR EE that really reverses the story told in the theatrical editions like that.

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This.

Alderaan said:

I haven't seen the new Hobbit films and probably won't. I really liked The Fellowship Of The Ring when it came out, I must have been 19 or 20. But when I watched it again in 2010 I didn't think too highly of it anymore, and Peter Jackson is a terrible, terrible director in my opinion. I think if people go back and watch these films at an older age, they may form a different opinion, similar to how a lot of PT fanboys stopped liking those "movies" once they grew up.

Return of the King was absolutely insufferable when I watched it in 2003. Other than Viggo Mortensen's performance, there was nothing redeemable about that flick at all.

 You're so right.  In my early 30's I was so impressed with these movies, but now that I'm in my early 40's I know better.

...

Or maybe you just don't like anything fun.

Fink, I've got some bad news for you. The human brain stops maturing at about 25. If you haven't grown past the "oooh look at all the flashy things" stage of your life by 30, it ain't gonna happen by 40.

I don't find slow paced, exposition stuffed, overacted films much interesting.

The editing in LOTR particularly makes me want to throw up.

Alderaan said:

Fink

 Wrong.

moviefreakedmind said:

TV's Frink said:

Alderaan said:

I haven't seen the new Hobbit films and probably won't. I really liked The Fellowship Of The Ring when it came out, I must have been 19 or 20. But when I watched it again in 2010 I didn't think too highly of it anymore, and Peter Jackson is a terrible, terrible director in my opinion. I think if people go back and watch these films at an older age, they may form a different opinion, similar to how a lot of PT fanboys stopped liking those "movies" once they grew up.

Return of the King was absolutely insufferable when I watched it in 2003. Other than Viggo Mortensen's performance, there was nothing redeemable about that flick at all.

 You're so right.  In my early 30's I was so impressed with these movies, but now that I'm in my early 40's I know better.

...

Or maybe you just don't like anything fun.

I myself was quite young when the LOTR films came out and I have fond memories of seeing them with friends from school, and re-watching them in my twenties I actually think I appreciate them more since when I was younger I watched them more for the action whereas now I enjoy the story much more. I can't stand it when people try to speak for everyone, and to assume that the majority of people who enjoyed the LOTR films (which were nearly universally acclaimed by critics, all of whom were likely fully matured adults) were just clueless children or fanboys is a pretty absurd statement. 

 Completely agree with this. Along those lines I don't think there were any children in the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences when they gave Return of the King eleven Oscars. Say what you will about the validity of those awards, but they are voted on by industry professionals (i.e. more qualified film viewers than most of us I dare say) so I doubt they would give a record amount of trophies to an immature and "terrible" work. 

Speak for yourself Alderaan. I think Frink's got it right.

I saw the films of the LOTR trilogy haphazardly over a -- what? -- six year period, never one after another, and so I never really got into the story or understood who all the characters were. I'll probably watch them properly someday, but not until I finish reading the books; until then, they're completely anathema in theory if not in fact.

Now, with that hullabaloo out of the way ...

When I've seen the LOTR movies I was in my early 20's and I love them. I have re-watched them recently, a decade later and I still love them.

YMMV. Much like some of the prequel fanboys, I liked them more when I was younger and found myself bored to death and rolling my eyes upon rewatching. Actually I always hated the Return of the King.

Out of curiosity (and apologies if you already answered my question in this thread), what do you think of the book?

The Hobbit book suffers from the same problems as the Prequel book.

I never read the LOTR books, just saw the films. I'm being a little harsh on Fellowship, it's an OK film, but they got worse. Two Towers was annoying and derivative, King was downright unwatchable for me.

I wonder if Peter Jackson will do a biopic of JRR Tolkein if he can't get the rights to the other books in the estate? 

The Prequel Trilogy suffers from George Lucas and his 20 years of building up flashy toys which he spewed upon the world.

I'm beginning to understand the OT were a happy accident.

SilverWook said:

I don't think the market can support three movies about him that don't form a trilogy. ;)

http://www.slashfilm.com/tolkien-biopics/

 Don't worry; Jackson will produce the least faithful portrayal of the author. He will probably devote four hours to the time he was frightened by a spider. And those other two biopics will never get off the ground.

luckydube56 said:

I'm beginning to understand the OT were a happy accident.

Well Lucas had not very much to do with the making of the OT anyways; he shot footage for the first film, and had much more talented people assemble a masterpiece. Plus he did not direct the Empire and Jedi, and the less involved he was, the better the product. When George made the PT, it was more of a spinoff made by one delusional person than the great collaboration SW was.

And BTW, Peter Jackson hasn't shown restraint in his films since the Frighteners.

I definitely see a lot of the same problems with the Hobbit trilogy as I did with the Star Wars prequels. Sadly, I've already lost the will to list all of my numerous grievances, but fortunately I can just copypasta from a little post I made on another forum upon my original viewing of the first Hobbit movie.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah, "The Hobbit"...Most of its problems stem from the fact that the studio decided to extend the book into three movies (and thus having to pad and otherwise clutter up the story with filler). While they will make more money this way, it sabotages any hope for a decent narrative. And for every scene they manage to pull off (Riddles in the Dark), there are two or three total failures (overly silly trolls, rock 'em sock 'em stone giants, etc.). If the movie isn't putting you off with scenes inundated with inane silliness, it's boring you with mindless cgi filler (not to mention the tonal inconsistencies, the destruction of Bilbo's character arc, seemingly endless fan service, etc.)...

It seems to be going the Star Wars prequels route (though not quite as badly)...

In one word: Disappointing.

I think there is a lot of truth to be found in the following parody:
http://www.cracked.com/article_20315_if-hobbit-was-10-times-shorter-100-times-more-honest.html


FADE IN:

INT. IAN HOLM'S HOUSE

IAN HOLM sits down to write a book. Or if you're reading this in 48 FPS, a GIANT IAN-HOLM-SHAPED BLOB OF MAKEUP sits down to write a book.

IAN HOLM (voice-over)

Once upon a time, a city of dwarfs built a completely unsustainable economy based on gathering precious raw materials and then keeping them. To avoid the debt ceiling, they dug deep fiscal cliffs into the earth, until the city was finally conquered by the great and terrible dragon Cleverdick Humphersnatch.

(pause)

Or was it Smaug.

ELIJAH WOOD

(barging in)

HI, UNCLE BILBO! Look, kids, it's me, Frodo!

(waves)

IAN HOLM

Um, yeah, trying to start an epic trilogy here. Did you stop by to do anything useful?

ELIJAH WOOD

Not really, except to position this scene right before the beginning of Fellowship, which means we're about to take nine hours of film to tell a story that you wrote down in about two. Better settle in and get ******* comfy.

IAN HOLM

The hell I will. I'm turning into Martin Freeman.



EXT. HOBBITON - YEARS EARLIER

MARTIN FREEMAN is practicing his puzzled-blinking skills when IAN MCKELLEN arrives.

IAN MCKELLEN

Hello! You may remember me as the old man who does fireworks at birthdays.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

Yeah, like in Fellowship. So do you just crash parties whenever you need only a handful of XP to level up?

IAN MCKELLEN

Ha ha, of course not. Now prepare yourself, I've come to bring you on a thrilling adventure! Please don't let the fact that I perform 90 percent of this movie on a green screen make you feel like I'm phoning it in.

MARTIN FREEMAN

I decline your offer of adventure. There, all done, movie's over.

IAN announces a PARTY at MARTIN'S HOUSE on his DWARFBOOK PAGE and sets it to PUBLIC, causing the house to be instantly swarmed by DWARF PRINCE RICHARD ARMITAGE and his TRAVELING CAVALCADE of RIDICULOUSLY BEARDED WARRIOR-CALLIGRAPHERS.

MARTIN FREEMAN

Dick move, Ian. Dick move.

IAN MCKELLEN

Lalala, I'm three studios away and I can't hear you.

The DWARFS act rudely and MARTIN stutters an objection. This repeats for roughly ETERNITY until finally IAN MCKELLEN throws a TANTRUM in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as he did in FELLOWSHIP. It feels CHEAP and CONTRIVED. The AUDIENCE begins to sense a PATTERN developing.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

OK everyone, settle down. Martin, we need your help to steal a jewel from the dragon who took my kingdom. And we must act soon, as there are rumors that the dragon is gone, and others may try to seize our homeland.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

I'm a bit confused. If the dragon's gone, there's no problem. If we're just stealing a jewel from it, you don't get your kingdom back. And if the plan is to kill it, you don't need me to steal the jewel, instead you need about 3,000 more dwarfs.



RICHARD ARMITAGE

Look, we need your help to sneak past the dragon that we're going to kill anyway that doesn't even exist! Is that so hard to understand?!

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

Well, you did a song about what an uptight ******* I am, so I was going to say no. But then you sang about being really sad, so OK. I'll go with you.

MARTIN takes ONE STEP FORWARD.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

NO, NO ******* WALKING, STOP RIGHT GODDAMN THERE. For YEARS this franchise has taken NO END of **** about the walking. "Waah waah waah, they just walk everywhere, it's all walking, waaaah," in every single goddamn comment thread, every last ******* online forum. Well THAT ENDS NOW. If we're going to travel in THIS movie, it's going to be COOL and AWESOME and NOT AT ALL LEISURELY.

(pause)

Now, choose your pony.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(excitedly)

Ooh, Rainbow Dash, please!

EXT. FOREST

SYLVESTER MCCOY, nobody's favorite DOCTOR WHO, arrives as nobody's favorite wizard, PEDERAST THE BROWN. He demonstrates his wizardly prowess to the audience by having a FACE covered in ****.



SYLVESTER MCCOY

Some nefarious evil has arisen in Mirkwood! I must go warn Ian McKellen while still having **** ALL OVER MY FACE.

EXT. HILLSIDE

MARTIN has a word with GRIZZLED OLD DWARF KEN STOTT.

MARTIN FREEMAN

So what's the deal with Richard Armitage? Besides being our Viggo surrogate, I mean.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

Hm? Is somebody about to relate my epic backstory? I'll go stare nobly into the distance while you do that, don't want to intrude.

KEN STOTT

Right then. Long ago, Richard and some of the dwarfs from the prologue decided to retake the kingdom of Moria. You remember, from the other movies. However, they were thwarted by a computer-generated albino named Manu Bennett, but not before Richard cut off his hand, kind of like what happened to Sauron in the prologue to the other movies.

(smiles)

Don't worry, though, I'm sure he won't show up later in a desperately transparent bid to give this movie its very own big bad.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

Do the rest of you have backstories?

KEN STOTT

I dunno. Possibly. We're pretty bland actually, I mean three of us are doing double duty as evil trolls.

MARTIN FREEMAN

As what?

EVIL TROLLS

AS US! YOINK!

(grab Martin)

Now listen up, dwarfs, three of whom are also us! If you fight, we'll kill Martin; but if you surrender, we'll eat all of you, including Martin.



RICHARD ARMITAGE

Well that is the stupidest choice ever, no way will we ...

(surrenders)

Goddammit.

The TROLLS commence a display of COMIC BANTER and TROLL TAINT while the AUDIENCE struggles to decide which is more NAUSEATING.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

God, but this sucks. If I wanted to see ugly green monsters make jokes about bodily functions, I'd be watching Shrek.

MARTIN FREEMAN

Time to display the wits and cunning that justify making me the hero of this story!

But instead IAN MCKELLEN shows up in the NICK OF TIME and SAVES EVERYONE, a device that is already BEYOND OLD and isn't even the last time it happens IN THIS MOVIE. They prepare to move on when SYLVESTER MCCOY arrives with his **** FACE.

SYLVESTER MCCOY

Look, Ian, I found this sinister necro-blade in my forest. Also, my face is covered in ****.

IAN MCKELLEN

My word, this could be terribly important. I am in your debt and YOU HAVE **** ALL OVER YOUR GODDAMN FACE.

SYLVESTER MCCOY

Uh-oh, wargs are attacking! Don't worry, I'll distract them and MY ENTIRE ******* FACE IS UTTERLY CRUSTED OVER WITH ******* ****.

**** MCFACE gets on his MAGIC RABBIT SLED and attempts to re-enact RETURN OF THE JEDI.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

Seriously. A ******* rabbit sled?

IAN MCKELLEN

Yeah, it's part of a game we play to see who can **** off more people on the Internet.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

That is the worst chase sequence I've ever seen. How is it possible for special effects to look less convincing than they did 10 years ago?

INT. RIVENDELL

MARTIN, IAN, RICHARD, KEN, and 10 OTHER CHARACTERS THAT WE HAVE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO EVEN MENTION THEIR NAMES YET AND GUESS WHAT, WE NEVER WILL, arrive to see HUGO WEAVING.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

Hello, Hugo. It turns out we need your help, because I just realized my entire plan hinges on a map I cannot even ******* read.



HUGO WEAVING

Ah, that's only because you don't have the latest backlit touchscreen RuneReader, as I do. Observe!

RICHARD ARMITAGE

Wow, it shows where the secret door we need is, and that it can only be found during a stupidly long laundry list of circumstances, and guess what, they're all happening now! Thanks, Hugo!

HUGO WEAVING

(to camera)

Yes, it's the RuneReader Glow, only $149.99 at major retailers everywhere. Why not make this Christmas a special one? WE'RE sure as hell failing at it.

INT. RIVENDELL - MYSTICAL COUNCIL ROOM

The COUNCIL OF FAMOUS ACTORS gathers to DISCUSS ****.

CATE BLANCHETT

Welcome, Ian. Did you like how I turned in place, creating a pretty spiral pattern with my crazy long dress? If you missed it, don't worry, I do it in every ******* shot.

IAN MCKELLEN

(gravely)

I have disturbing news. There is a shadowy threat that is manipulating events while remaining unseen.

CHRISTOPHER LEE

So you mean to tell me we're facing some kind of phantom mena-

(pause)

Oh crap. Not again.



HUGO WEAVING

Hold on a moment, Ian. All we have to go on is the word of someone who's been smoking chronic and watching too much late night "Marble Hornets." You really made Christopher Lee fly all the way to New Zealand at his age for this?

CHRISTOPHER LEE

Actually, I filmed my scenes in London, to be composited in later.

IAN MCKELLEN

Thus ruining my only chance at having one scene where I didn't have to act at tennis balls on a stick. Thanks, dickhole.

CATE BLANCHETT

Well, although we've all run out of information, I think we should discuss this further. In fact, I'll use my telepathic powers so that we can have TWO of the most excruciatingly boring conversations ever filmed, AT THE SAME TIME.

HUGO WEAVING

Excellent idea, Cate. Commence the droning!

The COUNCIL indulges in roughly NINE PAKISTANS WORTH of DRONING until everyone is COMATOSE.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

**** it, we might as well walk now.

EXT. MISTY MOUNTAINS

MARTIN and the DWARFS get caught in a battle of GIANT ROCK'EM SOCK'EM STONE GIANTS!

STONE GIANT

WHY AM I FALLING IN SLOOOW MOOOOTIOOOOONNNN?



KEN STOTT

You guys wouldn't even BE fighting if you knew how much butthurt this was going to cause among fans of the book.

Half the dwarfs get BODY SLAMMED by 20 TONS OF ROCK but are FINE. Then they all trip a FLOOR TRAP and fall 10 MILES DOWN A JAGGED STONE PIT and are still TOTALLY FINE because Tolkien hadn't invented CRUSHING DAMAGE yet.

INT. CAVE

HUNDREDS OF GOBLINS capture the DWARFS, but not MARTIN, because he DUCKS. Then ONE GOBLIN finds MARTIN and they FIGHT!

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

Literally not one hour ago, I specifically mentioned that I've never handled a sword before, and I'm holding my own against a ******* monster. This is just lazy.

MARTIN and the GOBLIN fall ANOTHER 10 MILES DOWN A ROCKY CREVASSE, but MARTIN lands on a TWO-INCH MUSHROOM and is ENTIRELY, UTTERLY, NOT EVEN A ******* SCRATCH, FINE.

INT. ANDY SERKIS' CAVE

MARTIN finds THE ONE RING in a manner COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from how we saw it happen in FELLOWSHIP.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

The one time it would be a good idea to imitate that movie, and we DON'T do it. Right.

ANDY SERKIS

Greetings, hobbits! We challenges you to a battle of questionses! Smssh fplssh GOLLUM, ssghsss indecipherables gibberishes preciousnesses!



MARTIN FREEMAN

Ah, FINALLY, I can display the wits and cunning that justify making me the hero of this story!

(pause)

Except that I'll have all my answers spoon-fed to me by our surroundings, or your own words. And I'll stumble onto the winning question entirely by accident.

ANDY SERKIS

(shrugs)

That's OK, it's still the best scene in the movie. HOBBITS-EATING TIME!!!

(attacks)

But thanks to the ONE RING and a SILLY 3D EFFECT, MARTIN ESCAPES and finds his way OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN even though the WHOLE POINT of the question game was to get ANDY to show him the way OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN.

INT. ELSEWHERE IN THE CAVE

Just as all seems hopeless for the DWARFS, they are rescued by IAN MCKELLEN, in the NICK OF TIME, YET ******, and begin fighting their way out of the mountain in a CHASE SEQUENCE copied FRAME-BY-FRAME from PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN 2. However, their way is blocked by the enormous, hideous DAME EDNA GOBLIN KING!

GOBLIN KING

Not so fast! You must first defeat ME, a villain not one-tenth as scary as the Balrog that we've already seen you defeat!



IAN MCKELLEN, with all the collected writings of Middle-Earth at his command, decides to KILL the GOBLIN KING using a joke stolen from JASON X, the FRIDAY THE 13TH IN SPACE movie.

CORPSE OF J.R.R. TOLKIEN

(vomits blood)

Then everyone falls ANOTHER 30 MILES and the 12-ton GOBLIN KING falls ON TOP OF THEM and THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING, TOO, WHY THE **** NOT.

EXT. BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN

The COMPANY regroups.

MARTIN FREEMAN

There you are, Ian! Did everybody get out safely?

IAN MCKELLEN

(shakes head)

Alas, we have paid a high price for our freedom. Prepare thy tears as I relate the noble sacrifice of ... wait a minute ...

(looks around)

... holy ****, ALL the dwarfs are still alive. All goddamn 12 of them. Do I have to start putting red shirts on these ********?

KEN STOTT

Ian, thank God you only show up exactly when we need you.

IAN MCKELLEN

I am a Knight of the ******* Realm, and if I want to sit out all the parts where you're just walking to places, I will sit those parts out, dammit.

MANU BENNETT

Howdy everyone! I'm here to take my revenge on Richard.



RICHARD ARMITAGE

I'm surprised it took you until now. I mean, how long does it take to shove a barbecue fork through your forearm?

Everyone runs up a TREE the way HEROES DO until IAN remembers he can SET FIRE TO ****, except they waste it on PINE CONES. MANU hacks down the TREES, so now our heroes are dangling over a CLIFF!

KEN STOTT

Oh no, he's threatening us with falling. Has he not been paying attention?

RICHARD ARMITAGE

That does it, Manu, I'm challenging you! There's no way we'd do an entire movie without accomplishing SOME benchmark, so either YOU'RE gonna die, or I'M gonna die, or at least SOMEONE will ACTUALLY ACHIEVE SOMETHING!

(is defeated)

MARTIN FREEMAN

Hey, check this out, guys, now that the trees are flat, we can walk off them.

KEN STOTT

WALKING! How the **** did we not think of THAT?!

MARTIN walks off the TREE and SAVES RICHARD. Meanwhile IAN summons the EAGLES the EXACT SAME GODDAMN WAY HE DID IN THE OTHER MOVIES.

MARTIN FREEMAN

Somebody should really tell Peter Jackson that all of these allusions aren't making this movie more resonant, they're just robbing the originals of a lot of their impact.

PETER JACKSON

(curled up half-asleep on a giant pile of money)

Huhmm?

GEORGE LUCAS

It's OK, Peter. Go back to sleep.

The COMPANY is flown out of DANGER and left at the TOP of a TALL, NARROW PEAK, instead of at, oh let's say, the BOTTOM, because EAGLES ARE ********.



RICHARD ARMITAGE

Martin, you showed great courage, and I now respect you.

MARTIN FREEMAN

(hesitates, frowns)

Meaning both of our character arcs have been compressed into one film. You would think, with TWO MORE TO GO, they could've given that a little more time to develop.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

Well, we still have to get all the way to the Lonely Mountain ...

KEN STOTT

Hey, there it is.

RICHARD ARMITAGE

Aw ****.

END

Oh, I see someone else wants a bunny skyscraper repost.

You wouldn't ...

In hindsight, what was Hollywood thinking when they signed on Peter Jackson to direct any JRR Tolkein films in the first place?!? He has failed us six times in a row, it is clear to anyone with a functioning brain stem that Jackson despises Tolkein with every fiber of his being outside of bloated action sequences that made up a total of three pages in the 1400 page The Hobbit/LOTR saga. 

Now with JJ Abrams set out to fuck up the Star Wars franchise into the red, the director of FOUR Fast & Furious movies ramming Star Trek into oblivion, AND an eighth mediocre Batman movie jerry rigged onto another terrible Superman movie evolving into a Justice League franchise helmed by that lunatic psychopath Zack Snyder, everything we love is being destroyed by those cynical Hollywood bastards.

NeverarGreat said:

Let's just calm down now. If people didn't put up with Hollywood mediocrity, they would be forced to make better movies. And Jackson doesn't despise Tolkien, that's absurd.

Yeah, but Hollywood mediocrity has never been this powerful before. They have an infinite supply of royal flushes up their sleeves; the next five years at the movies will be as predictable as an algebra problem. Superman vs Batman: Dawn Of Justice will easily become the highest grossing film of next year in spite of being equivalent to watching newsreel footage of WWII atrocities. You thought the Rick Berman era of Star Trek was a low point? Star Trek 3 will make you pine for even the blandest episodes of Voyager and Enterprise. And it's even more absurd that you are saying Jackson doesn't hate Tolkien when he doesn't like the themes of the books? And by the end of this year alone we will all wish we were at home watching the Phantom Menace rather than The Force Awakens. 

TWO OUT OF SEVEN PEOPLE, TWO OUT OF SEVEN!