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Help Wanted: Attack Of The Clones - How To Fix This Pooper

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Okay, so I’ve come to the conclusion that AOTC is by FAR the hardest Prequel to fan edit.

The mystery plot makes no sense.

The plot structure dissolutes any possibility for tension, and is so jumbled and weird that it’s hard to RE-structure into anything different at all.

There isn’t enough with the Lars Family.

The “forbidden love” subplot is too stupid to leave in, but too major to leave out.

Seriously, the hell is with that mystery plot?

The Seperatists and Dooku are the main villains, but they don’t appear until the very end. And Dooku dies within the first few minutes of Episode III. He has no time to be a major villain.

Seriously…the Clone Mystery Plot. SERIOUSLY.

The effects are horrendous. Just horrendous. Even Episode I looks a million times better.

Those are the UNFIXABLE things IMO. So…fellow OT-Ians…

How would you fix these unfixable things in your respective (or theoretical) fan edits?

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Q2 (thunderclap), Spence, and Seciors have all made very decent edits IMHO.  I'm not sure if it's ever going to get better than these ones though.

 

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My edit will do...

The mystery plot makes no sense.  Won't exist.

The plot structure dissolutes any possibility for tension, and is so jumbled and weird that it's hard to RE-structure into anything different at all.  It has a more straightfoward structure, but giving the film tension is going to be hard.  If there is any more tension, it may be stuck in the politics.

There isn't enough with the Lars Family.  Can't do anything about this.

The "forbidden love" subplot is too stupid to leave in, but too major to leave out.  I'm still debating on if they're love should be forbidden, it's more an issue in Episode III if it can be changed.

Seriously, the hell is with that mystery plot?  Again, won't exist.

The Seperatists and Dooku are the main villains, but they don't appear until the very end. And Dooku dies within the first few minutes of Episode III. He has no time to be a major villain.  While there isn't much new footage, their appearences will be spread about.

Seriously...the Clone Mystery Plot. SERIOUSLY.  Again, won't exist.

The effects are horrendous. Just horrendous. Even Episode I looks a million times better.  Hopefully, the intense colour correction and 35mm conversion of the film will help.

Those are the UNFIXABLE things IMO. So...fellow OT-Ians...

How would you fix these unfixable things in your respective (or theoretical) fan edits?   So I think most can be fixed, and at least others can still be drastically improved.

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stretch009 said:

 

Q2 (thunderclap), Spence, and Seciors have all made very decent edits IMHO.  I'm not sure if it's ever going to get better than these ones though.

 

Don't forget L8wrtr.

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TV's Frink said:

stretch009 said:

 

Q2 (thunderclap), Spence, and Seciors have all made very decent edits IMHO.  I'm not sure if it's ever going to get better than these ones though.

 

Don't forget L8wrtr.

L8wrtr's is actually my favorite. BUT...I mean...it's still SO BAD. :(

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As many may know, I was/am reediting this film, but I am well aware that my edit will never be perfect. The film is fundamentally broken at the most basic story level. 

To fix this film, you'd need to shoot major new sequences, which in turn might require reshooting existing things for the sake of consistency. And before you know it, you're reshooting and recasting the whole thing!

The completist perfectionist part of me thinks I should first release my "F**k it, it'll never be right but this is the best you're gonna get" edit, and then go back and radically deconstruct it, keeping the few acceptable scenes and filling in the gaps with title cards explaining all the impossible things that ought to be there.

For a start, there'll be the words "NEW ANAKIN" flashing throughout the film :-p

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I do have a question, would it be possible to add scenes from other films to make it make more sense add a new spin?

In terms of main characters that's obviously an issue, but could we add Grevious in? And fit in more battle scenes? Could we for example add in some of the Coruscant outside battle scenes from RotS into AotC, could some of the extra scenes like the politicians chatting be added from RotS to AotC.

One of the edits starts with Dooku and Palpatine having that chat they have at the end "the war has begun" etc - Which I actually think is the best way to begin the film.

"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran

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Funnily enough, I've been scouring the web looking for some kind of Scifi/fantasy movie where forces of pallid pale (vampire/zombie-like?) humanoids are seen in battle. I would love to find such a gem as they'd be insertable as 'Seperatist Clones' and the Troopers would just be ordinary republic soldiers then. I've been trying my hardest to eliminate the Clone subplot as it currently exists as it's completely stupid.

 

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Movies off the top of my head (which you may or may not of thought of), which could prove useful; Star Ship Troopers (and all the awful sequels), Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Serenity (and therefore Firefly), Dune, Aeon Flux, Equilibruim, Screamers, Ultra Violet, Judge Dredd, Prometheus,

Left of centre; V for Vendetta (the Clandestine board meetins where they talk to the Chancellor on the screen, could easily be swapped box in box for Palpy). In the Name of the Rose (who doesn't love Sean Connery looking like a Jedi/Monk?).

Hope that helps for 1 or 2 films you may not of thought of.

"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran

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Whenever I watch something new I'm always keeping my eye out for little gems that might be reuseable as something in a different film, but realistically even if you found your perfect shot of your idea for a new style of clone warrior, the chances of then finding enough of those shots to be able to use in a meaningful way and make them mesh sufficiently would (sadly) I feel be impossible.  Short of a director having made a film and recreated shots with something like this in mind it just seems like it would be too coincidental.

But if you were prepared to settle for human armoured clones (to hide specific features), and I would suggest looking at long running TV series just so there is more footage available, then it may be possible.  This obviously wouldn't give you your ideal image of a clone, but it would allow the current Republic clone army to change to being just similarly armoured individuals recruited from the numerous planets in the Republic, which is in my oppinion an idea that is definitely worth pursuing.

As for suggestions the only series that springs to mind is Stargate Atlantis where the wraith warriors are all clones so look the same, are humanoid but clearly not human, and have a bad guy look to them.  Whether there are shots which could be used for this purpose, or even look Star Warsy enough, I haven't a clue.

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When it comes to armoured clones, there's another from the Stargate universe that springs to mind. The Kull warriors. And there's a particualar shot where an entire army of them is revealed.

 

Kullwarriors.jpg

Obviously replacing the droids in any way is a radical edit, I understand that. I'm just throwing ideas out.

 

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brash_stryker said:

When it comes to armoured clones, there's another from the Stargate universe that springs to mind. The Kull warriors. And there's a particualar shot where an entire army of them is revealed.

 

Kullwarriors.jpg

Obviously replacing the droids in any way is a radical edit, I understand that. I'm just throwing ideas out.

 

Oh good call, I completely forgot about these and only thought of Jaffa and replicators (both which I thought weren't going to cut it).

And I am all for radical ideas, most of what I suggest on these boards would suggest refilming, but if it would help fix even part of the movies I'm all for it.  Frankly I think I'd settle for someone animating a better PT as long as they animated all three consistently, and even more so if they animated the OT to match.

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The Kull warriors or similar being all in black would actually be quite symbolic against the troopers all in white.

Agreed about the animated PT. I'd happily watch an animated fan-made prequel trilogy alongside my Adywan OT. People may argue about continuity being compromised  but when you think about it, you could end up with characters that actually look like young versions of Alec Guinness and Sebastian Shaw. Being animated would just be an alternate style for a different trilogy. Much of the prequels looks like a pixar movie anyway afterall.

There's an animated PT thread somewhere on here.

 

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My solutions are largely listed here.

I read Kull warriors as Krull warriors.

I had this groovy idea of the Slayers from Krull fighting the Clone Troopers.

They could almost be made to fit into TPM.

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Good thread, MrInsaneA. AOTC always was the most broken of the prequels to me. It has a lot of interesting ideas, but the whole thing is just executed horribly. I spent a lot of time thinking about how to fix AOTC as well

My main idea is this: the Republic has ordered the creation of the army. The reason Amidala returns to Coruscant is to vote on whether or not to deploy the army. This set up can be conveyed in the opening crawl. By making the characters aware of the army, it removes the nonsensical 'mystery', as well as all subsequent plot holes from the story, but will also make them seem less dumb.

Obi-Wan's little detective story can be changed, leading him to Geonosis instead of Kamino. It will also allow for the removal of Jango Fett (by turning him into Boba in a less integral part or removing him completely), Dexter's Diner, and the obvious scene with the younglings.

This will free up more time for the actual characters. The deleted scenes between Anakin and Padme might be a bit cheesy, but they are much more natural than what is in the movie. Other scenes could be trimmed down or removed completely. For the Anakin and Obi-Wan relationship to work, I think removing a lot of the "my Padawan" and "yes master' bickering would work wonders.

The character of Count Dooku is the biggest challenge. In my opinion, he should not be a Sith Lord, which detracts from Anakin's fall. Dooku could be turned into a bit the idealist he is described as earlier in the movie. The library scene would be great to have here, if it can be salvaged.

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Forget about ordering any army. This is a republic and it doesn't have an army?! WTF?

Oh George. 

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For my edit of AOTC, I amalgamated other editor's ideas for the various plot threads, largely operating as a curator. 

I more or less mimicked Slumberland for the romance plot. He carved out a nice little bit of characterization early in the film for Padme. She refers to Anakin as a child when they meet, then points out that he's grown up before leaving together. He also converted the lakeside kiss scene into a day-for-night replacement for the fireside scene, though he inexplicably included Padme pulling away from it.

I retained a truncated version of the "forbidden love" angle. It is hinted at that Jedi aren't supposed to do that, but it's not expressed as being strictly forbidden necessarily. It's enough to get the audience to understand (and remember through to the next film) that the two of them need to keep it a secret. (And hopefully the sequel trilogy depict "New" Jedi who are free to marry and procreate, and retcon the PT such that only the latter Jedi were so conservative.)

I used part of Secior's idea for Count Dooku. Seciors moved his meeting with Sidious to the front of the film and made it much more clear that Dooku is working for Palpatine by trying to assassinate Padme. I did not reorder that particular scene, so Dooku does begin as a ""mystery"" in my edit as in the theatrical version, though we do find out that Palpatine's behind it all (rather than Nute Gunray demanding Padme's head out of pettiness).

I lovingly borrowed many ideas from the good 'ol Phantom Editor, including his method of removing some of the ""mystery"" plot thread about the toxic dart, and the general order of scenes during that part of the film.

Two small things: I changed the recurring mention of "ten thousand" Separatist systems to merely "one/a thousand," because I feel it alienates the audience a bit less. Incredibly minor, though. I also removed many of the Jedi's commands to Clonetroopers during the battle, implying that the Jedi are going to become dependent upon them during the war.

That's my take on Episode II, following in the textual tradition of fan editing and making use of what others have done. As always, I edit because I want the end product to exist.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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For The love scenes, Cut the fire place scene. (awful) Cut the entire scene with the first kiss by the lake. (atrocious) Re insert the deleted scene of Anakin and Padme going to Padme's home with her parents. Cut the Scene were they are with the Queen of Naboo. (pointless) Trim the scene when they are on the ship going to naboo. I.e. :you've changed so much. Anakin: you haven't changed a bit. You're exactly the way I remember you in my dreams. (Vomit) Cut some of the dialog before they go to the arena on Gienosis Do that and the Love story pretty much works.

As for Anakin. Making him less winy creepy and psychotic. Cut the part were he is say's "why? Why else do you think we were assigned to this. Protection is a job for local security not Jedi. It's over kill master Investigation is pardon in our mandate." Cut the were he blames Obi Wan for his mother's death for "holding him back"??? Cut were he says he is ahead of obi wan, and he's overly critical and doesn't listen and of course "It's not fair!"

As for the mystery plot. Cut any mention of "Syphodias" Who ever he was. Cut all indications of Vicroy Gunray being the one trying to kill Padme. That way it will imply that Count Dooku is behind it. In fact I suggest you Reinstate the scene of Dooku landing on Coruscant to the very beginning similar to what Secior Did for his edit of ATOC setting The Count up as the main villain.

On a side note Cut any indications of Dooku being Called "Darth Tyranus" It's just confusing.     

Cut all of C-3PO's Dialog. In fact cut him completely, until the end of the film at Anakin and Padme's wedding. He was just there as a poor attempt at comedy, like Jar Jar. Oh yeah Cut him too. Like all of him

While there isn't really anything you can do about the Effects (unless you have models and A LOT of time) You can trim and or cut some shots that have really over the top ridiculous CGI. 

Taking all that the film should be at the very least watchable, and at most good. 

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I really wish I could remember who it was because I thought it was a great suggestion and it definitely was not mine (though i may have tweaked it in my memory - hopefully someone will recognise it), but the idea was as follows.

Move the arena battle to the start and have anakin and padme already be a couple. I played around with a few clips some time ago (though never shared them as the quality was terrible), but I used a deleted scene where padme and anakin negotiate for obi wan's release along with padme's ship landing on geonosis. Then cutting these in with shots of obi wan sneaking around the droid factory, all in an attempt to make it seem like obi wan and padme were trying to rescue anakin who had been captured by dooku. 

This then played through to the creatures attack in the arena and the three heroes escaping on the large one (reek I think).  Then in my mind the rest would play out with obi wan researching dooku who simply left the jedi order, the assassination attempt on padme, the Republic building an army but with a suggestion that dooku interfered, and obi wan's missing planet being removed to leave a final showdown between droids and clones on the big battle at the end.

In my ideal version dooku would be a rogue and anakin would have visions which suggest there is a dark jedi threat which nobody has details of (actually anakin), with a possible addition of a scene showing palpatine using force lightning to help corrupt anakin. 

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As in the original somebody set up us the bomb, Padme's ship is destroyed. 

This is followed by an edit of the declaration of special powers with the deleted scene where Padme warns the senate of war. (this truncates all the senate scenes and political council meetings into one).

Then have Obi-Wan inspect the new troops.

Have him return to Coruscant to protect Padme from the bounty hunters (which now have no connection to the Clones) that have been hired by Dooku to placate Gunray.

Ben traces Fett to a landing bay on Coruscant where the fight is moved (no little Boba).

Anakin guards Padme but she convinces him to try and rescue his mother.  He fails, Anakin kills the Raiders but does not confess it.

Ben sees they are responding to the creation of the Clone army by building a larger droid one as Padme predicted. He gets himself captured.

Anakin launches a failed rescue attempt and he and Padme are put in the arena.

War Happen.

Alternate mix is that Tatooine and Geonosis be merged and the clones arrive to liberate it from the Separatists. Adding a Hutt to the arena podium shouldn't be too hard. Anakin is already there after witnessing the death of his mother. Colour grading could make both sandy planet the same place.

The droid occupation explains why years later Tatooine Cantina dwellers don't drink with droids.