STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1223

The lens has been funded 100%.

And to quote a certain Governor: "This bickering is pointless." ;)

Apologies for stealing your images Ronster but wanted to make my own point/suggestion about this scene:

The problem here I feel(in the original, not just your edit Ady), is that there is a straight cut from the one scene to the next, indicating no passage of time, where as we can clearly see 'the big one' pretty far away in the first shot.

I would suggest one of the following:

1) Have the asteroid in the first shot approaching much faster and/or bigger in the first place (would make the most sense to preserve original material while at the same time while creating better continuity, but no idea if it would look decent or not).

2) remove it entirely from the cockpit scene, as the audience would just assume it's present off-screen below the Falcon, as the next shot show's them descending. (may be the optimal solution).

3) Screen wipe between the two (certainly the most inelegant, but probably the easiest and most 'Star Warsy').

That scene bugged me too. Making it a bit larger and slightly changing it's position would help a lot. 

No problem Metalmunki...

I started thinking about the way that they handled showing the deathstar as a massive space station...Getting closer and closer over various shots and although that asteroid is not as big as the Deathstar.

perhaps it is missing from this shot if you want to convey it is the big one without writing it off.

But the other issue is that we need to see a smaller object so we can put the "Big One" in perspective. It's missing the much needed external space shot of the falcon approaching something much larger. But that probably is either very difficult or not possible / worth it.

Perhaps the soundtrack can be cut at "closer!" said by C3-PO and an external shot used re-timing the music cue on an external shot but that is a dodgy thing as it may take the sequence too far from what we are used to... but it may also work. My gut says though cannot touch cue alterations in this bit.

I would say that to do it the same as they handled the deathstar shots would require the shot of the "Big one" put in the shot where it is missing (pictured above) and perhaps the 2D (adywan) removed asteroid on the shot where he mentions going in closer etc.

But I will say that if it can be made to work as it should it would be great. here is a quick mock up.

That's using the dodgy 2d asteroid :)

"That's no moon...It's a big asteroid"

metalmunki said:

The problem here I feel(in the original, not just your edit Ady), is that there is a straight cut from the one scene to the next, indicating no passage of time, where as we can clearly see 'the big one' pretty far away in the first shot.

 Nope, you're labouring under the misapprehension that these films are playing in real time unless there's a wipe.

It's an absolutely standard aspect of editing grammar that a cut can omit unnecessary time - usually a matter of seconds, sometimes more - from a single scene. I would imagine that most viewers have an innate understanding of this.

If you start to pull on that thread, you'll have a wipe every 30 seconds...

What the hell has happened to these boards?.............

It's inevitable really - a well-meaning invitation for suggestions opens the floodgates for those who, rather than pointing out actual shortcomings in the vintage visual effects, decide to start second-guessing the genuine craftsmanship of filmmakers at the top of their game.

Fortunately the actual work is in the hands of someone who well understands the difference between the two.

Jonno said:

It's inevitable really - a well-meaning invitation for suggestions opens the floodgates for those who, rather than pointing out actual shortcomings in the vintage visual effects, decide to start second-guessing the genuine craftsmanship of filmmakers at the top of their game.

Fortunately the actual work is in the hands of someone who well understands the difference between the two.

 It's not suggestions nobody is actually making any solid suggestions even myself.

That asteroid on the shot where Han says "I'm going in closer to one of the big ones" first of all. Looks nothing like the surface that they fly over in the next shot secondly if it was as big as the asteroid surface in the next shot it would get bigger a lot slower but also be much larger out the cockpit window.

That is what we are doing pointing out the short comings of the original visual effects. And trying to figure out a way of it to work better. I don't think anyone perhaps apart from the team... but even perhaps including them know what the best way to handle it is or just to leave it alone and do nothing about it.

Jonno said:

metalmunki said:

The problem here I feel(in the original, not just your edit Ady), is that there is a straight cut from the one scene to the next, indicating no passage of time, where as we can clearly see 'the big one' pretty far away in the first shot.

 Nope, you're labouring under the misapprehension that these films are playing in real time unless there's a wipe.

It's an absolutely standard aspect of editing grammar that a cut can omit unnecessary time - usually a matter of seconds, sometimes more - from a single scene. I would imagine that most viewers have an innate understanding of this.

If you start to pull on that thread, you'll have a wipe every 30 seconds...

 Not only did you manage to sound utterly condescending, but you're completely wrong in this case.

The big asteroid they are clearly heading towards  is not that close in the cockpit scene, then suddenly is so enormous it's only partially on screen when we go to an exterior effects shot. In this case, having the asteroid visible in such a way in the cockpit scene actually hurts the shot that follows. That cockpit view of a big rock is a limitation of the effects/budget of the time, not some auteur's labour of love.

Jonno said:

It's inevitable really - a well-meaning invitation for suggestions opens the floodgates for those who, rather than pointing out actual shortcomings in the vintage visual effects, decide to start second-guessing the genuine craftsmanship of filmmakers at the top of their game.

Fortunately the actual work is in the hands of someone who well understands the difference between the two.

Oh wow, never mind you're just an ass. Ady has changed comparative distance shots before based on continuity, this is no different. He might not wish to change it feeling that it works just fine as it is, and that's totally fine because it's his vision, but please don't assume you're somehow more qualified to opine than the rest of us. You aren't a special snowflake.

metalmunki said:

Not only did you manage to sound utterly condescending, but you're completely wrong in this case.

The big asteroid they are clearly heading towards  is not that close in the cockpit scene, then suddenly is so enormous it's only partially on screen when we go to an exterior effects shot. In this case, having the asteroid visible in such a way in the cockpit scene actually hurts the shot that follows. That cockpit view of a big rock is a limitation of the effects/budget of the time, not some auteur's labour of love.

 I certainly didn't mean to appear condescending with that post - you genuinely didn't (and don't) appear to grasp what that edit is conveying.

I'm not arguing that the continuity in the asteroid's physical appearance couldn't use some work, if you really scrutinise it (something I hadn't done personally until I saw these stills). It's the notion that there's an error in the size of the rock that bothers me, as if ILM's budget couldn't stretch to a larger piece of styrofoam or something.

The establishing shot is scaled exactly as intended, because the Falcon is some distance away, then there's a brief passage of flight that we don't see (or need to see), then we see the Falcon's approach over the surface. It's very deliberate and quite elegant, focusing on the rhythm of the scene rather than slavish moment-by-moment depiction of every event.

Oh wow, never mind you're just an ass.

Quite likely.

Ady has changed comparative distance shots before based on continuity, this is no different.

It's different in that this isn't a mistake.

but please don't assume you're somehow more qualified to opine than the rest of us. You aren't a special snowflake.

A strange thing to say, considering you're the one questioning the visual flow of an incredibly well constructed sequence in an incredibly well structured film. It's an absolute masterclass in editing, and one which I'm admittedly quite defensive about since the horrific mangling of the climax in the SEs. If that taught us anything: you don't have to see everything.

The unseen passage of time happens a lot in ESB. e.g. In Echo base, we go straight from seeing Threepio in the control room to seeing him in the hangar.

This does not indicate that Threepio has teleportation abilities. It indicates we've jumped forward a bit. There's nothing unusual about this and it happens a lot in film in general.

Likewise, there is no problem at all with the size of the asteroid in that first shot. Seeing it close up in the next is the indicator to say we've just skipped forward.

The only thing I might suggest for the asteroid (as mentioned a while ago in this thread) is to slow it down or stabilise it entirely to give it a bit more mass.

Jonno said:

A strange thing to say, considering you're the one questioning the visual flow of an incredibly well constructed sequence in an incredibly well structured film. It's an absolute masterclass in editing, and one which I'm admittedly quite defensive about since the horrific mangling of the climax in the SEs. If that taught us anything: you don't have to see everything.

 You know what, I retract the last remark. It was a step too far on reflection. I'm being defensive as it felt the point I was making was being dismissed out of hand.

I agree you don't have to see everything, which is why I think removing the 'roid from the cockpit view would actually improve it. I think an argument can be made for whoever was responsible for it being there, isn't adhering to your own conclusion.

However, you like it as is and I accept that. I just don't agree with it :)

brash_stryker said:

The unseen passage of time happens a lot in ESB. e.g. In Echo base, we go straight from seeing Threepio in the control room to seeing him in the hangar.

this was mentioned some time ago, and I see it as a continuity error - bad cutting ("jump cut"), because better material wasn't there (or other stuff was "lost")

I think we need to see the asteroid in question, it is like the pointing out that Han did with the cave he had seen ...

better have a correction of model or inserted shot - not like the overdone flight the Falcon did to arrive at Yavin IV

PS: it's hard to post when the server gives error reply :(

Adywan...as you can see everyone has lost their mind and now were discussing asteroids/wipes/etc..etc...I feel like my mind is turning to jelly with all of this tit for tat about nothing. Next we'll be debating where Yoda's toilet should be. It just seems were going on about stuff that we've all accepted and were trying to change the ESB until its unrecognizable. Please finish this edit so they can at least change the subject onto why the wipes go this way instead of that and what is the difference between them. I'm not trying to rush you but I'm burned out on this ridiculous nit picking. Helpful and meaningful suggestions are one thing but we've just gone off the deep end here. The last 3 pages are like....huh? Anyhow...REALLY looking forward to watching this edit...Love what I've seen so far, great job.

If I could make a suggestion to deal with Luke and Leia's infamous kiss, shorten it so that it lasts only a fraction of a second. This would greatly reduce the creepiness factor without eliminating the character dynamic between Han and Leia, and seem more natural as a quick action that's part if a heated argument. The time could be compensated by lengthening Leia's death stare at Han after the kiss, emphasizing that the purpose of the moment is between her and Han.

timdiggerm said:

Guys, it's only actually creepy if Luke & Leia know they're siblings... which they don't. It's maybe sorta creepy if the viewer knows? Maaaaybe? But I'm hoping in the Revisited saga, the viewer won't.

Any speeding it up would only introduce weird sped-up-ness.

 I dunno man that's how I get over the fact that it's in the original but if we're getting what may be the definitive version of the trilogy then we can go without any incesty-type-stuff. And I should have clarified that I don't mean just speeding up the film, but using that as well as other editing tricks to make the kiss shorter in general.