The thread where we make enemies out of friends, aka the abortion debate thread — Page 25

darth_ender said:

Bingowings said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the baby had red hair just like my carrots...the colour...I don't have hairy carrots...oh now it sounds rude and weird and I didn't meen too.

To me it occurred that this might have been trying to get back at me.  "Oh look, I said something mean, oops I'm sorry, but not really."  At the same time, I wasn't sure since you make these silly comments a lot.  But you have a tendency to be very oblique, making your points with subtlety, sarcasm, analogy.  I honestly don't get what you mean more than just on this occasion (meaning, probably around 50% of the time when you are using such tactics, if not more).

well said here, Ender.  

Warbler said:

darth_ender said:

Bingowings said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the baby had red hair just like my carrots...the colour...I don't have hairy carrots...oh now it sounds rude and weird and I didn't meen too.

To me it occurred that this might have been trying to get back at me.  "Oh look, I said something mean, oops I'm sorry, but not really."  At the same time, I wasn't sure since you make these silly comments a lot.  But you have a tendency to be very oblique, making your points with subtlety, sarcasm, analogy.  I honestly don't get what you mean more than just on this occasion (meaning, probably around 50% of the time when you are using such tactics, if not more).

well said here, Ender.  

And yet you guys believe texts like the Bible and the Book of Mormon which are much more contradictory, include more flights of fancy and use them to arrange the events in your life.

If you want cold logic and bare facts you are digging in the wrong place.

Bingoists make up about 50% of the people in my living room and I'm the only other person in my living room. My utterances in regard to ice-cream and carrots have no political influence and don't limit the chances of people to live their lives the way they see fit.

I never post tactically by the way.

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

Bingowings said:

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

 you admit to this yet are suprised that Ender couldnt figure out whether or not what you said was a dig at him?

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

 you admit to this yet are suprised that Ender couldnt figure out whether or not what you said was a dig at him?

Maybe I overestimate the intelligence of the contributors of these boards including yourself. The alternative is to act like you are all children and write very slowly in big text.

To be fair to everyone, and I might be wrong, but the c-word is considered more offensive here than there.

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

 you admit to this yet are suprised that Ender couldnt figure out whether or not what you said was a dig at him?

Maybe I overestimate the intelligence of the contributors of these boards including yourself. The alternative is to act like you are all children and write very slowly in big text.

 Bingo, stop acting like a jerk.

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

 you admit to this yet are suprised that Ender couldnt figure out whether or not what you said was a dig at him?

Maybe I overestimate the intelligence of the contributors of these boards including yourself. The alternative is to act like you are all children and write very slowly in big text.

 Bingo, stop acting like a jerk.

 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

*sigh* what's the use. 

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

darth_ender said:

Bingowings said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the baby had red hair just like my carrots...the colour...I don't have hairy carrots...oh now it sounds rude and weird and I didn't meen too.

To me it occurred that this might have been trying to get back at me.  "Oh look, I said something mean, oops I'm sorry, but not really."  At the same time, I wasn't sure since you make these silly comments a lot.  But you have a tendency to be very oblique, making your points with subtlety, sarcasm, analogy.  I honestly don't get what you mean more than just on this occasion (meaning, probably around 50% of the time when you are using such tactics, if not more).

well said here, Ender.  

And yet you guys believe texts like the Bible and the Book of Mormon which are much more contradictory, include more flights of fancy and use them to arrange the events in your life.

Ooh, good move!  I confess to not understanding what you mean, so you attack my faith in religious texts.  Nice one!  And you said you don't post tactically.

If you want cold logic and bare facts you are digging in the wrong place.

Bingoists make up about 50% of the people in my living room and I'm the only other person in my living room. My utterances in regard to ice-cream and carrots have no political influence and don't limit the chances of people to live their lives the way they see fit.

When I said that you hadn't offended me with the statement and that I'd just wondered what you might have meant, I didn't think it would cause you to get so upset.  It was a flippin' question.  I don't really care.  I was just curious, and you seemed to persist at it, so I wanted honest clarification.  Such a styled response is well within the realm of your methods.  I don't care if you even had meant it to insult me.  However, I trust you (unlike some) when you reassure me that your intentions were not to offend.

I never post tactically by the way.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tactically

Definition 3 seems quite fitting to nearly all your posts, as you employ great linguistic skill to convey your messages, though I must admit, perhaps you have overestimated the intelligence of some of us.  But we are pretty slow.  After all, we believe in some silly old books after all.

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

 I enjoy your zaniness.  It's part of your charm.  But I don't always understand it.  That's okay.

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Sometimes I post opinion, sometimes I post zany surreal nonsense and I leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to figure out which is which.

 you admit to this yet are suprised that Ender couldnt figure out whether or not what you said was a dig at him?

Maybe I overestimate the intelligence of the contributors of these boards including yourself. The alternative is to act like you are all children and write very slowly in big text.

 I appreciate Warbler coming to my defense, but I wish that my ongoing attempts at smoothing over the personal hurt (though admittedly trying to continue a reasonable and respectful debate) don't seem to be working.  Instead of getting worked up and making personal jabs, why not address points I've made.  I have what I feel is an excellent example of a comatose man.  I'd love to hear your rebuttal.

Too often I make deep points, points that I really want addressed rather than ignored.  Looking back over this thread, I remembered and sought out this post by CP3S.  He never addressed my points because he felt it would be uninteresting.  I found it to be a bit of a cop out, and I wished he'd addressed my thoughts, no matter how boring or philosophical he found them.  Abortion deals with the most fundamental morals of humanity, and too often my best arguments remain ignored.  I often wonder if my arguments are extra strong when folks lack the courage to address them. Or perhaps I've overestimated the intelligence of those who contribute to these boards. 

Along a different train of thought, I remember when Frink shared his first inkling of his story to me.  He asked about another exception to abortion that hadn't come to mind: that of the physical health of the child.  Ah yes, here it is.  At the time I advocated a position of letting nature take its course, but understood his reasoning.  Very recently my opinion has changed somewhat, and admittedly because of a greater understand of LDS Church policy.  This is a quote on that policy:

You can call that posting tactically if you wish but I can it posting opinion.

Face facts your religious texts true or false are more wonky than anything I've written and I have never asked anyone to alter their behaviour based on my wonky text.

You claim to have reached some level of authority with understanding your churches utterances and yet get yourself in a tizzy because you can't figure out if a comment about my gardening success is a dig at your wife's pregnancy.

There is nothing wrong with having a religion made up containing rather dull fairy tales largely engineered to lever yourselves into an occupied continent. Most religions are like that and are totally valid as made up things you want to believe.

You can wear your special clothes, pay for your special buildings, sing special songs. It gives you a sense of purpose and I'm all for that.

It's no different from being a comic book nerd. wacky stories, strange costumes, huger more elastic canon but basically the same sense of community. I dare say there is a comic book priesthood of some kinds. Keepers of the secrets of Uatu.

Comic nerdom is prone to conversations like these too. We have all served in the flame wars.

The difference is nobody has ever limited the life choices of another individual based on Superman or Atomic Mouse. And yet religion is used as one excuse to keep your country out of the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, for example.

I refuse to take lectures on jerkness from Warb. He gets freaked out by clothes FFS. You are all weirdos. Well done :-D

Bingowings said:

You claim to have reached some level of authority with understanding your churches utterances and yet get yourself in a tizzy because you can't figure out if a comment about my gardening success is a dig at your wife's pregnancy.

 Alright my ignorant friend, you have demonstrated a complete lack of attention and I haven't even bothered reading the remainder of your post.  I know you would rather react emotionally than rationally in spite of every olive branch I offer, but for now I will simply draw your attention, limited as it may be, to the above portion of your quote.  I will read and respond to the rest later.

Level of authority: what I mean is that I have read the church's policy and understand it better, which has in fact already altered my opinion (wherein I stated before, if you have followed the links, that I accept such in others though I believe in giving life a chance).  Good heavens, what a crime!  My reference to authority is based entirely on the officially published statements of the Church, not self elevation as it appears.

As for the tizzy that you are so sure I'm worked up over (though in fact if you'd read my posts at all, you'd see I felt no tizzy), you don't at all get what I felt was a dig.  Not for a moment did I feel you were making a dig at my wife's pregnancy.  I FELT YOU WERE POSSIBLY, AND NOT EVEN DEFINITELY, TAKING A DIG AT THE SINCERITY OF MY APOLOGY TOWARDS TV'S FRINK!!!!  It looks like I'm the one who needs to write slowly with big letters.

DO YOU GET IT???  IS IT REALLY THAT HARD???  AM I THAT UNCLEAR???  OR DO YOU SIMPLY GLOSS OVER MY POSTS WITHOUT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND?

IN THE FUTURE, READ MY POSTS THOROUGHLY BEFORE YOU RESPOND LIKE AN IGNORANT MORON!!!!!

AND WHEN SOMEONE OFFERS YOU PEACE, YOU COULD ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATE YOUR SUPPOSED PACIFICISTIC INCLINATIONS RATHER THAN INCESSESANTLY PURSUING HOSTILITY!  GEEZ MAN!!!!

I never said it was a crime or wrong to rise to a level of authority within your church.

To do so, one assumes, requires a degree of nous that if applied to my posts would be able to determine if I am writing a comment about my garden or an insult about your wife (which was the reason I was dragged back here to your title proclaimed divisive thread).

The things you believe as a Mormon are unconventional, to say the least and derive from a source which is also unconventional and conclude in ways which may not be obvious to most people.

If you can make that journey, if you can read faith out of  material of that nature and that background you don't need me to explain why I thought you were being a bit of a cunt a few pages back, probably by accident.

You also don't need me to telegraph every joke or every surreal flight of fancy so you can pick it out of genuine heartfelt opinion.

We can post in this matter until the sun goes cold if you like. You seem to be flooding the boards with threads of this nature, so maybe you get a kick out of confrontation or something but I prefer Frink flooding the boards of GIFs or people dancing and LOLCatz myself.

At least those make me smile.

Bingowings said:

I prefer Frink flooding the boards of GIFs or people dancing and LOLCatz myself.

Bingowings said:

I never said it was a crime or wrong to rise to a level of authority within your church.

To do so, one assumes, requires a degree of nous that if applied to my posts would be able to determine if I am writing a comment about my garden or an insult about your wife (which was the reason I was dragged back here to your title proclaimed divisive thread).

Ridiculous.  Just ridiculous.  I never felt insulted with regards to my wife.  I never felt my wife or kid were the butt of any joke.  I thought I maybe just didn't always get your sideways means of communication.  I don't think you understand anything unless it is the same.  It's pretty straightforward really.  I thought you were insulting my sincerity, not my wife or child.

The things you believe as a Mormon are unconventional, to say the least and derive from a source which is also unconventional and conclude in ways which may not be obvious to most people.

If you can make that journey, if you can read faith out of  material of that nature and that background you don't need me to explain why I thought you were being a bit of a cunt a few pages back, probably by accident.

I don't need an explanation.  I understand your reasoning.  I think you need an explanation of why you are wrong to think that about me.  I have tried to clarify.  Once again, you think I'm feeling something I'm not.  But I like how you bring in your interpretation of my religion (which you've consistently demonstrated in the Mormon thread as very incorrect) into everything and feel that should mean I can make sense of every bizarre joke you make.

You also don't need me to telegraph every joke or every surreal flight of fancy so you can pick it out of genuine heartfelt opinion.

We can post in this matter until the sun goes cold if you like. You seem to be flooding the boards with threads of this nature, so maybe you get a kick out of confrontation or something but I prefer Frink flooding the boards of GIFs or people dancing and LOLCatz myself.

At least those make me smile.

Yeah, the board is flooded.  Except there's only one on abortion, one on LDS doctrine, one on good news, all worthy of separate topics, all discussing them separately and not overlapping, so I don't know what you're talking about.  You don't like confronting me?  Then shut up and stick with your myriad of incorrect assumptions.

This:

Warbler said:

 Bingo, stop acting like a jerk.

 can hardly qualify as a lecture.

I am sorry that the way Weir dresses seems weird to me.

As for Ender's "title proclaimed divisive thread".  I think he meant the "The thread where we make enemies out of friends" bit as joke.   I don't think he intended that this thread should be divisive.  I think he wanted a thread where the abortion is was debated and discussed an calm reasonable and polite mannor mannor.   I don't think Ender gets a kick out of confrontation, I think he does however get a kick out of calm intellegent debate.

Ah yes, good times.  And so recent.  Thought I would bump this thread with an article I stumbled across tonight, though five years old.

http://www.lifenews.com/2009/09/09/int-1317/

Thank goodness for the dehumanization of the pro-choice argument and the absolute control over medical decisions provided by state-run healthcare!  What would we do without them?

In an effort to not show an extreme view completely unwilling to hear an opposing view on the two separate topics I feel are shown to be faulty with this article, I will point out that I feel that some government involvement in health care can be beneficial, but I've yet to see something that does it right.  And I understand the difficulty justifying treating a child with a 75% chance of not making it.  But this was inhumane and shows what happens when we believe an unborn or supposedly "non-viable" human to be something less than a person.  This is the kind of thing that truly breaks my heart.

Of course a fetus is less than a person it's only formative stimulus has been a swooshing noise and the vague feeling of being warm and wet.

If the parents have invested hopes and aspirations into the progress of the pregnancy it's an important wiggly bundle of kicking flesh to them. If you believe, without any evidence it has a magic ghost put inside by an invisible benefactor it's probably sacred, but a person?

People only become people when they can demonstrate a definable persona.

The person thing starts sort of around the toddler stage when the child stops acting like a screaming muscle and starts acting more like a puppy.

Try asking a baby if it likes yo-yos. If you get an answer more meaningful than spit bubbles, screams, involuntary giggles or flatulence you may be on to something.

I'd like to see a more balanced source of the story than Lifenews.

Here it is from another source.  Not really sure how trustworthy it is. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html

*shrugs shoulders* I tried.

According to my mother that was "a step too far" *shrugs*

She could cope with Benny off of ABBA winning (man with a beard), she got her head around Dana International winning (transgendered non-european) but an Austrian Man with a beard in a dress... time to roll back to the 1970's where...oh look!

or maybe the eighties.

Moth3r said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

Hasn't he just won Eurovision?

 haha : )