STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1181

How's that big-ass computer monitor working for you, Ady?

:)

DarkRha said:

I saw that someone on facebook suggested adding Imperial ground troops during the battle of hoth for scaling purposes, however I like the idea of ground troops only because it will make sense of the rebel ground troops in the trenches since there is no way they could take down the walkers with their blasters alone. Just random ramble as I wait for the final masterpiece!

 i too wanted ground troops added to the hoth battle. In my research it was clear from evidence of story boards that I found in the "empire strikes back notebook" published in 1980 that Lucasfilm had story boarded  imperial troops battling with the rebels. However it seems to have been dropped.

In JW Rinzlers "The Making of the Empire Strikes Back". There were no scenes filmed with imperial troops in the trenches. No costumes made or extras. The book talks at length about the second unit filming of the rebel trench scenes in finse....no imps. It is Intersting that Rinzler does not show the dropped storyboards and makes no mention of imperial troops at all. 

perhaps it was budget, perhaps technical issues with the effects shot. Who knows. the interesting thing is that they planned it and then dropped it at some point.

there was some filmed scenes with a wierd rebel tank That were deleted. i think it is from that recently discovered making of video from Germany? Anyways you can you tube it. Attached is a link to a photo of it.

http://www.therpf.com/f79/esb-rebel-hover-tank-hoth-87501/

And just by googling I found all this stuff.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/echo-base-the-battle-of-hoth/

mattcion

I knew I find it.

here is the link to the behind the scenes video.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/echo-base-the-battle-of-hoth/

I don't know, it kind of makes sense to not have any Imperial ground troops in this battle. The Empire has these huge walkers that are almost impossible to take down, so just let them stomp their way in and take out the shield generator so that Vader & Co. can land. Why risking losing men at this phase of the battle?

Sure, they probably didn't expect snowspeeders to be able to knock them down with tow cables, but they could easily stomp and pick off any Rebel ground troops in their way, whose blasters aren't going to do any good.

[Vader to infantry:] "You boys just sit tight. We'll let the walkers do the heavy lifting, then you can clean up what's left of their ground troops. Oh, and if you find R2-D2, take him out. I have a feeling he's going to really muck up my plans later."

Bluecardinal You are 100% right. tactically it makes more sense to sit tight in an armoured vehicle that is impervious to the fire you are taking when assaulting an entrenched position.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/

here is a funny article written about the battle of hoth from a tactical perspective.

matticon

BlueCardinal said:

Sure, they probably didn't expect snowspeeders to be able to knock them down with tow cables, but they could easily stomp and pick off any Rebel ground troops in their way, whose blasters aren't going to do any good.

 Exactly why it makes the rebel ground troops' presence there completely pointless. The way I saw it you've got the big walkers for the heavy lifting...the chickens to protect the big ones....and the ground troops to protect the chickens. The rebs needed something to be shooting at...otherwise they're just wasting their time (and dying while doing it).....but the point IS rather moot as Ady has said he's not doing it.

there were storyboards for ATATs stepping on rebels....

I agree that shots should not be added.....I had hoped, however, that troops would be worked into existing shots. They'd be tiny to small in the shots...but it WOULD have given the rebels a reason to have all been plugging away until the end of the battle. The battle is super busy and involved on the rebel side....but when you switch over to the imperials they're just lumbering on....not at all bothered by the shooting that is going on. The rebels on the ground should have been shown having SOME effect....even if it WAS just to stall/delay. They need to die for a reason. Right now they die for NO reason.

Again, I sound like I'm still pushing for this....but I'm not. I'm simply pointing out what, to me, seems like a major flaw in the visual storytelling of the battle sequence. Guys in a trench with rifles aren't shooting at armored vehicles.

BlueCardinal said:

I don't know, it kind of makes sense to not have any Imperial ground troops in this battle. The Empire has these huge walkers that are almost impossible to take down, so just let them stomp their way in and take out the shield generator so that Vader & Co. can land. Why risking losing men at this phase of the battle?

Because it's Vader (and by extension, Palpatine).  Since when did these guys ever display a conscience, or military cunning?  Especially about an unlimited renewable resource like Easy-Bake Stormtroopers?

As much I would like to see Imperial Troops rush into Echo Base - wouldn't it be nice to have some Speeder Bikes (in Hoth coloring!) chase along the Walkers ?

that would really add to the smaller battles and be even faster than the AT-ST or AT-AT assault ;-)

@ Jacen: Excellent point (and "Easy-Bake Stormtroopers" is hilarious)

Like Muddy, I agree that it is kind of pointless for the Rebel troops to be there. I guess they would rather make an ineffective defensive effort than no effort at all. And to .Mac.'s point, it would be damn cool to see dozens of snowtroopers rappelling down from AT-AT's once the generator's been destroyed. Any chance Ralph McQuarrie did concept art for that?

After all, the huge bodies of those AT-AT's wouldn't just be used for carrying refreshments. "We're not hosting an intergalactic kegger down here."

BlueCardinal said:

After all, the huge bodies of those AT-AT's wouldn't just be used for carrying refreshments.

 WRONG!

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/8895519208_f3ebb6bd55_z.jpg

doubleofive said:

Dammit Muddy, you're not supposed to post images from the workprint! ;-)

 I just felt that it was in the spirit of the conversation ;)

I can hardly wait for, when it comes time for ROTJ:R, a similar sense of seriousness and hopelessness against the Emperor's "entire legion of best troops" on Endor ;)

Entire legion of the empires best troops defeated by teddy bears.

*sigh* Lucas.....Lucas.

.Mac. said:

I can understand what you mean Muddy, how it seems like the Rebel troops were still hopelessly plugging away at the end and dying for no reason... but for me that IS what works perfectly from a visual storytelling standpoint... it emphasizes how outmatched the Rebels were to the Imperials and yet they desperately did ANYTHING they could to try to stop/delay the behemoth walkers...

 We'll have to agree to disagree then. I totally get that the battle is supposed to feel hopeless. It's supposed to end in defeat for the rebs, but as it stands now the battle isn't hopeless......it's pointless. As a commander you don't send your troops out to certain death if there is absolutely zero to be gained from it (you hold them back to fight another day when you might actually have an effect). They're sent out as a delaying action....but none occurs. If they could have slowed them down even a little then there might have been SOME point in sending them out.....but the walkers are completely unaffected by the ground troops and get within range of the shield generator in exactly the same amount of time they would have had there not been ANY ground troops. I think the film fails on this visual level in that it showed a very one sided battle. We have all kinds of shots of ground troops firing away....but they've nothing to shoot at, as their weapons are completely ineffectual (something they'd have discovered VERY early on in the fight, and a point which is driven home when Luke says that even the snowspeeder's weapons are not strong enough). 

And having enemy ground troops would actually have enhanced the hopelessness of the battle.....take out as many of them as you like, those lumbering behemoths towering above them are still coming at you and there's nothing you can do about it. You've done the best you can do, and yet you're still going to fail.

wasn't there a shot from a cannon that should destroy an AT-ST ?

we see that even this "better" ground gun hasn't any effect on the AT-ATs ...

Discussion is the best thing that happens here, so no worries there.

Prior to the battle...no, no-one COULD have known. But the ground troops would have figured it out VERY quickly, and then Luke's announcement to the same effect is made for the audience...very early on in the battle....and yet for the entire rest of the sequence we get shots of rebel troops firing away (aiming horizontally over the ground as well). That's often bothered me. I always felt they needed something to be shooting at once they figure out that their weapons are ineffective against the armour advancing on them....and yet keep shooting.

Muddy has said my thoughts extremely well.  It's bugged me for years that their sacrifice was utterly meaningless.  Their action served no delay, and they should have retreated sooner.  Their leadership should have authorized such a retreat almost immediately.  But as it stands, the efforts of the ground troops didn't even leave a dark spot on AT-AT armor, and thus they continued to give their lives and resources (which, as we know, are very finite compared to the Imperials'), and made no difference.  Better to live and fight another day than pointlessly waste life and ammo.

Personally I don't look at it so much from an in-universe standpoint as I do a film-making one. If the rebels just weren't shown after we find out their weapons are useless (until we see them retreating later) I'd have much less problem with it.......but the fact that they're continually shown to us, fighting some phantom battle, has just always raised flags for me.

Jacen said:

How's that big-ass computer monitor working for you, Ady?

:)

I'd love it with we could have a tour/pics of Ady's workspace - where all the magic happens. :-P

rockin said:

Jacen said:

How's that big-ass computer monitor working for you, Ady?

:)

I'd love it with we could have a tour/pics of Ady's workspace - where all the magic happens. :-P

Like most conjurers I imagine it all happens at the bottom of a very tall hat.

It would have to be to keep all that hair (and the occasional Hobnob) in.