DuracellEnergizer said:
Fang Zei said:
An EU reboot would also be a huge slap in the face to all the fans who've made the company millions of dollars by continuing to buy the books. It could result in the exact kind of backlash Lucasfilm is trying to avoid.
Boo hoo. Anal-retentive idiots like that deserve to be slapped in the face.
I agree, Duracell. Fan service should never be at the expense of a good movie and/or a good saga.
Can't the EU continue on it's merry way while the new films come out?
AFAIK, this isn't even an issue with Trek fans, and that particular EU has been around a lot longer.
Where were you in '77?
I tend to appreciate it when an author (or filmmaker, or what have you) makes an effort to keep continuity with what came before. I'm the kind of nerd who loved the mini-episode of Doctor Who "Night of the Doctor" because of what I perceived as charitable acknowledgement of the audio dramas that the neglected 8th Doctor has been featured in.
My tendency would be to look at Star Wars VII and hope that they do their best to situate the story within the established storylines that have filled in the gap for the past 20+ years. Ideally they'd not depend on details from the EU, but just establish their new films in the same continuity.
In the end, I want them to make the best film they can, though it'll be a little uncomfortable to let go of the continuing narrative that has been contributed to for so long. I think that's because we've come to love the characters and have enjoyed watching their lives unfold. I wouldn't be angry about rebooting the EU, but maybe somewhat melancholy about the past couple of decades' worth of stories that have formed a cohesive continuity.
I get the impression from the rumors, taken with salt, that the 'story group' likes the EU quite a bit as well and has an interest in preserving it. As a fanboy nerd anal-retentive kind of guy, I would be very appreciative of a frank, clear-cut announcement of, for example: "Everything set after Vector Prime is no longer in continuity. That is all." I'd prefer that over having to parse everything once details about the movies come to light and having to fuse them together with a wholly unrelated EU continuity.
In the end, any upsetting of continuity is well worth getting more films. I'd throw out all the books and EU stuff if it meant getting one more movie with these characters. But surely one can understand how a fanboy would feel sad about being told, for example, "The Solo children you know never existed."
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
SilverWook said:
Can't the EU continue on it's merry way while the new films come out?
AFAIK, this isn't even an issue with Trek fans, and that particular EU has been around a lot longer.
You have no idea how long I've been trying to say this.
SilverWook said:
Can't the EU continue on it's merry way while the new films come out?
AFAIK, this isn't even an issue with Trek fans, and that particular EU has been around a lot longer.
Ah, but the Star Trek EU isn't canon, isn't meant to be canon, and makes no pretentions of being canon, unlike the Star Wars EU, which has had The Rod of Continuity rammed straight up its backside by elevated, anal-retentive fanboys who can never see the forest for the trees.
Yet, most of the Marvel years have been ignored.
Where were you in '77?
Hal 9000 said:
But surely one can understand how a fanboy would feel sad about being told, for example, "The Solo children you know never existed."
Stargate SG-1 tells me that Ra was never the last of a humanoid race who built a network of stargates, but instead was one of billions of parasitic snakes who merely used a network of stargates built by a race of superhumans who became glowing jellyfish. I ignore that series and its spinoffs.
A Nightmare on Elm Street 4-6 and Freddy vs. Jason tell me that Freddy Krueger survived the events of A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and killed off all the surviving kids from that movie, making Nancy Thompson's death totally meaningless. I ignore those sequels.
Highlander 2 revealed that Connor MacLeod and all the other Immortals from the first movie were aliens from the planet Zeist, Highlander 3 showed that Conner never actually won the Prize when he defeated the Kurgan at the end of the first film, and Highlander: Endgame had Conner die, losing his head to his own kinsman. I ignore each and every one of those movies.
Poltergeist II and III turn the primal, enigmatic Beast from the first movie into some goofy singing ghost preacher. I ignore both sequels.
Star Wars Episodes I, II, and III show that Anakin Skywalker was a murderous asshole, that Luke and Leia's mother was a selfish, racist airhead, that Obi-Wan was a senile old coot, that Palpatine was Henrietta from Evil Dead 2, that Yoda was a constipated frog on speed, and that the Jedi Order was made up of aloof, child-snatching, cultist enforcers. I definitely ignore those pieces of shit.
So, where am I going with all this? It's simple, really -- if someone fucks the canon up in such a way that pisses you off, then IGNORE IT and CREATE YOUR OWN. It's all fiction anyway -- no piece of it is anymore "real" than another.
Hal 9000 said:
I tend to appreciate it when an author (or filmmaker, or what have you) makes an effort to keep continuity with what came before.
QFT
It shows first that you know what came before, second that you care about it.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Let me ask this: What if Nolan decided to maintain consistency with New Earth?
With new what now?
TV's Frink said:
With new what now?
"New Earth" is the universe in which most DC Comics occur.
Why are you bringing up either Nolan or Earth, neither of which have anything to do with Star Wars?
TV's Frink said:
Why are you bringing up either Nolan or Earth, neither of which have anything to do with Star Wars?
I was trying to say that a Star Wars movie that takes place in the same universe as te EU (what some are advocating) would be like a Batman movie that takes place in the same universe as the Batman comics.
.
darklordoftech said:
TV's Frink said:
Why are you bringing up either Nolan or Earth, neither of which have anything to do with Star Wars?
I was trying to say that a Star Wars movie that takes place in the same universe as te EU (what some are advocating) would be like a Batman movie that takes place in the same universe as the Batman comics.
Ouch. That would be terrible
I'm not a fan of Nolan's movies, but I agree that any attempt to make a Batman movie set in the comics' universe would really, really, really suck.
darklordoftech said:
TV's Frink said:
Why are you bringing up either Nolan or Earth, neither of which have anything to do with Star Wars?
I was trying to say that a Star Wars movie that takes place in the same universe as te EU (what some are advocating) would be like a Batman movie that takes place in the same universe as the Batman comics.
The comics and the movie are two different takes on the character. Different universes. The EU means Expanded Universe, not Different Universe. This is why Lucas specifically forbid writers from delving into the Clone Wars period and tried to make the prequels fit with the EU instead of disregarding it completely. However, since he doesn't have a good grasp of continuity as it is, the effort was rather wasted.
I believe that a good writer with a mind for continuity could play off of the expectations created by the EU to heighten the dramatic effect of Episode 7.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
NeverarGreat said:
darklordoftech said:
TV's Frink said:
Why are you bringing up either Nolan or Earth, neither of which have anything to do with Star Wars?
I was trying to say that a Star Wars movie that takes place in the same universe as te EU (what some are advocating) would be like a Batman movie that takes place in the same universe as the Batman comics.
The comics and the movie are two different takes on the character. Different universes. The EU means Expanded Universe, not Different Universe. This is why Lucas specifically forbid writers from delving into the Clone Wars period and tried to make the prequels fit with the EU instead of disregarding it completely. However, since he doesn't have a good grasp of continuity as it is, the effort was rather wasted.
Taking bits and pieces of the EU that he likes and sticking them in the PT =/= trying to make the PT fit with the EU.
DuracellEnergizer said:
I'm not a fan of Nolan's movies, but I agree that any attempt to make a Batman movie set in the comics' universe would really, really, really suck.
Realistically: yeah, probably. I wouldn't go as far as to say that "any" attempt would suck, though. It's not impossible, it's just incredibly unlikely to happen, all things considered.
Well, I admit I'm biased -- I hate modern mainstream superhero comics.
NeverarGreat said:
The comics and the movie are two different takes on the character. Different universes. The EU means Expanded Universe, not Different Universe. This is why Lucas specifically forbid writers from delving into the Clone Wars period and tried to make the prequels fit with the EU instead of disregarding it completely. However, since he doesn't have a good grasp of continuity as it is, the effort was rather wasted.
The worst thing about this is that in order to UNDERSTAND a movie, you need to read/watch a bunch of related books, comics, mini-series which is a supportive role, spin-off, instead of relying just on events being properly unfolded in the original movie/movies that should serve the purpose of exploring the main storyline. And THAT storyline should hold the gravity center of depicting various events - not side projects.
DuracellEnergizer said:
Well, I admit I'm biased -- I hate modern mainstream superhero comics.
I haven't read a lot of modern superhero comics, but judging by what I've read I'm not a fan either, at least when it comes to the DC and Marvel stuff. I haven't checked out Grant Morrison's work for DC and Marvel, though, and I'm curious about that. We'll see.
DuracellEnergizer said:
SilverWook said:
Can't the EU continue on it's merry way while the new films come out?
AFAIK, this isn't even an issue with Trek fans, and that particular EU has been around a lot longer.
Ah, but the Star Trek EU isn't canon, isn't meant to be canon, and makes no pretentions of being canon, unlike the Star Wars EU, which has had The Rod of Continuity rammed straight up its backside by elevated, anal-retentive fanboys who can never see the forest for the trees.
It's had it rammed there by Lucasfilm. All the while, Lucas himself was saying "there is no Episode VII" and that RotJ is The End of The Story as far as he's concerned, meaning the EU stuff never really happened in his eyes....
....Except now there is an Episode VII, which means RotJ wasn't the end and, well, y'know....
Look, I've barely read anything that takes place post-Jedi. Reading wookieepedia timelines and such has been the farthest extent I've kept up with the story. Since I don't have much invested in it, it wouldn't be the biggest dissapointment if it were to be rebooted.
That said, I think it would be a bit hypocritical of Abrams to ignore Chewie's death after chaining himself to the death of Kirk in Generations as the reason for not including Shatner in the new Trek movies. It would also be kind of a dick move on the part of LFL and Disney to just go "Hey, remember how we killed off Chewie and it was a really big deal? Well, we need to maximize our profits on these new movies, so, guess what? It never happened! Sorry!"
To me, whether or not Chewie is in the movie has absolutely zero bearing on how good the movie will actually be.
As has been stated in this thread by myself and others, hopefully we'll find out soon.
DuracellEnergizer said:
NeverarGreat said:
darklordoftech said:
TV's Frink said:
Why are you bringing up either Nolan or Earth, neither of which have anything to do with Star Wars?
I was trying to say that a Star Wars movie that takes place in the same universe as te EU (what some are advocating) would be like a Batman movie that takes place in the same universe as the Batman comics.
The comics and the movie are two different takes on the character. Different universes. The EU means Expanded Universe, not Different Universe. This is why Lucas specifically forbid writers from delving into the Clone Wars period and tried to make the prequels fit with the EU instead of disregarding it completely. However, since he doesn't have a good grasp of continuity as it is, the effort was rather wasted.
Taking bits and pieces of the EU that he likes and sticking them in the PT =/= trying to make the PT fit with the EU.
Correct. To claim that the prequels were EU friendly is pure revisionism. When TPM was released, fans complained about the absence of Palpatine's three-eyed wife and there being two, not one Dark Lord of the Sith at a time. They also complained about the TPM novelization's Sith history being inconsistent with Tales of the Jedi.
Furthermore, why should Disney continue doing things the way Lucas did them?
Minor inconsistincies can be explained/retconned away by Chee and Hidalgo, outright contradictions like Chewie being alive in an Episode VII set 40 years after RotJ cannot.