Star Trek Into Darkness Full Spoiler Discussion — Page 4

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

(at this point if you believe the universes were identical before Nero came, then you're crazy),

um . . . isn't that whole basis for this alternate timeline, that Nero changed time and that why everything so different from the universe of the original Trek?

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

it could be a CG Ricardo Maltaban (they won't go back to the well, why not?).

with all the other characters being played by different actors, it wouldn't make sense for Maltaban to still be Khan.    There is also another problem: Maltaban is dead.

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

 And Spock may not have undergone Pon Farr yet...

wouldn't his relationship with Uhura prevent Pon Farr?

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

 

SilverWook said:

The dramatic tension of Kirk's sacrifice is slightly deflated, because the audience has already been told Khan's got magical healing blood. (Which is apparently unknown to 23rd century medicine, and none of Khan's frozen comrades seem to have.) You can see the resolution coming a light year away.

really??  cause I didn't.   Yeah you see Khan using his blood to heal the girl, but SHE WASN'T DEAD, and Kirk was.   When Kirk died, I honestly thought the next movie as going to be "The Search for Kirk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun

Did you read what I wrote?  THE GIRL WAS NOT DEAD.  Kirk was dead.  

If Kirk had lay dying in sickbay of some sort of incurable illness, then it would be clear that Khan's blood was going to heal him.    But was it clear that Khan's blood could bring something back to life?  No.   And, as I said before,  I was not expecting it. 

Yes, I read what you wrote. It was still telegraphed well ahead of time Khan's blood was important somehow, especially since it's something never talked about in either Space Seed or TWOK.

that Khan's blood was important? yes.  That Khan's blood could heal the sick? yes.  That Khan's blood could bring the dead back to life?  no. 

Maybe it was predictable, but I for one did not predict it. 

That's why they showed McCoy and the necrotic (they used that word) tribble.

How did that Tribble die anyway? I thought McCoy was more ethical than to experiment on small fuzzy animals. ;)

They didn't even use the classic Tribble sounds.

One other Khan nitpick is in Space Seed, Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty know something of Khan's history once he's been positively identified. They even express some admiration for Khan (to Spock's surprise) as he was somewhat benevolent compared to his contemporaries. "The best of the tyrants."

It might have been better had they tossed off a line about Harrison having had extensive facial surgery.

Joachim would have been a good choice. Cumberbatch even has a passing resemblance to Judson Scott.

Its obvious the audience for this never saw star trek II or would know its a ripoff film.

They also never saw Generations where Kirk died.  They seem to think that is an original concept as well.

The original series was substantively better but was not action paced and full of explosions and cgi.  Even Khan was better he was not shooting the place up or punching people in fast motion but was a powerful character because of Montalban's presence.  He was badass without having to take down 20 Klingons by himself.

The films subtext seemed to boil down to Starfleet is the USA, Marcus is W Bush.  Trying to start a war with the Kilngons based on lies equals Bush and Iraq.

The Nero event equals 911.

Getting Khan with the twist he is captured but not killed is getting Bin Ladin.

The torpedoes meant for Kronos were obviously supposed to be an allegory for long range unmanned drone strikes into  other sovereign nations.  To get terrorists.

It is against every rule of law in Starfleet and the Federation.

Kirks speech at the end of our values not being undermined is almost the same as what Obama said the US did after 911 now on what Republicans called his apology tour.

Or he could be quoting Picard from the drumhead episode of TNG as well, don't know.

Khan goes nuts and crashes the Vengeance only because he believes his people were in the exploded torpedoes.  Maybe he would have not crashed it had he known, or maybe he would have anyways.  But they could have him surrender because they had his people.  That is leverage they don't use.  Leverage that worked for Admiral Marcus at least at first.

Kirk is also a dumb jarhead easily manipulated because the script requires him to be.   Really hated that the original series Kirk may have been impulsive and willing to violate the prime directive when it was the right thing to do, but he was not dumb.  Pine Kirk is really a dumb patsie for Marcus.  Pike's faith was indeed misplaced.

Just got back from the movie.

Overall, I'm very conflicted about this movie. On the one hand, it has good action, reasonably good characters, and some genuinely engaging scenarios.

On the other hand, it really retreads the Wrath of Kahn, to the point where it begins to ruin WOK and this movie. So despite it being really fun and engaging as a sequel to the first movie, as a Star Trek fan I would rather not have even seen it.

One quibble: When Kirk says that Spock threw him under the bus, it took me out of the movie a bit. Anachronisms bug me.

Forgot about that line i actually laughed out loud in the theater when Kirk said it.  "Spock you threw me under the Bus!"

I also thought Scotty in the bar on his cel phone was funny, though extremely juvenile.  James Tiberius perfect hair.LOL.

The movie also made me feel like i was watching a videogame without actually being able to control it.  I felt the same about the last movie but this time even more so.

I guess the film is for the new generation its not aimed at me i am too old to get star trek for the 2 second attention span generation.

Robocop playing W Bush was really over the top who came up with that idea,lol.

NeverarGreat said:

Just got back from the movie.

Overall, I'm very conflicted about this movie. On the one hand, it has good action, reasonably good characters, and some genuinely engaging scenarios.

On the other hand, it really retreads the Wrath of Kahn, to the point where it begins to ruin WOK and this movie. So despite it being really fun and engaging as a sequel to the first movie, as a Star Trek fan I would rather not have even seen it.

One quibble: When Kirk says that Spock threw him under the bus, it took me out of the movie a bit. Anachronisms bug me.

As the trolleys are still operating in San Francisco in the 23rd century, buses of some sort probably are as well. It's no more anachronistic than people saying they filmed something with a digital camera. ;)

Ok, I got to see it tonight in IMAX 3D.

I'm a bit late seeing this, so I know I am just repeating what a lot of what you guys have said already. I kept away from this thread for weeks, and I am glad I did.  Well I am going to have my say about it anyway. I am not happy with what I saw story wise.  They blew a great chance to do something different with this series, and I wish they would have. The film was good fun up until we learn Cummerbund is Khan.  All overblown action and no dramatic substance to back it up. They relied too much on quotes from TWOK, and all the other TWOK, TOS references (Tribbles ,The Gorn race, British Carol Marcus, etc.) are so out of place and not in keeping with continuity even with the timeline split made me squirm in my seat.  Bad script!!!  I Don't like the guy who is playing Scotty in this part.  I need to watch "The Wrath of Khan" ASAP to get this crap out of my head. Not as excited for Episode VII as I was before tonight.

People do lose/gain accents over a certain length of time in their lives. And the movie tie in comic already had them encounter the Tribbles.

The "guy playing Scotty" is a major OOT advocate, so go easy on him. ;)

SilverWook said:

People do lose/gain accents over a certain length of time in their lives. And the movie tie in comic already had them encounter the Tribbles.

The "guy playing Scotty" is a major OOT advocate, so go easy on him. ;)

I like Simon, I really do. He seems like a very nice guy, and I did enjoy some of his other films. I just don't like him as Scotty.  Did I ever tell the story of how I met BiBi Besch at a NYC Comic/Trek convention in 1983, and just the two of us spent a few hours walking around the convention merchandise room together. She was a wonderful and kind person, and a was privileged to be her personnel guide and companion that afternoon. A memory I will treasure forever.