Boston Marathon Explosion(s) — Page 7

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

And I don't think the nuts that shot up Columbine, VT, Fort Hood, Tucson, the theater in Colorado,  and Sandy Hook, were anti-gun-nuts attempting to get more gun control legislation passed.   

 Why not?

You have to be a sick psychopath to do what they did.  Why would any motivation be any more likely/unlikely than any other?

I have never once heard of any evidence that shows gun control was the motivation for anything of these nuts to do their shootings.  If you have some, please show it.

It is possible in the future that some nut might it into his head to do one of these shootings in an effort to get gun control legislation passed?  It is.   But was that the motivation for the people that did the shootings I mentioned?  I haven't heard that it was. 

Honestly, I don't suppose any of these shooters were anti-gun-nuts.  I believe there is something wrong with them... but not that.

However, I am willing to suppose that someone set them up that was.  Someone that let the proverbial lion run wild in the proverbial village because it met their own agenda.

set them up?  how?    prove this. 

xhonzi said:

And, barring that, I firmly believe that anti-gun-nuts decided it was the perfect opportunity to push legislation... one that they have been praying for.

I suppose it is possible that the some anti-gun people are happy about the shootings, in that it gives them the opportunity to get gun control legislation passed.    But I believe the overwhelming majority of anti-gun are upset about the shootings as I am and just want to get gun control legislation passed in order to save lives. 

on the other hand I could argue that maybe gun nuts set up the guys that did the bombings in order show that nuts will still kill people ever if they do not have guns. 

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

...I think more are saying, "What if this isn't what it appears to be?  If it's not, then it's probably someone trying to manipulte my actions.  What reaction are they looking for?  That's the one I don't want to give."

not really sure what any of that has to do with the Boston bombing or conspiracy theories of it and other things like it.  

If the intended reaction is that people get mad (or scared, or whatever), and pass all sorts of new freedom-limiting laws (or whatever)... then that's the reaction we must not give.  If we do, then we have been manipulated to give these sickos just what they want.

whether or not gun control legislation is a good idea has nothing to do with what these sickos what.  

Lets say for the sake of argument that gun control could save lives and prevent massacres, are you telling me we shouldn't pass it merely because it is what the sickos want?   

Leonardo said:

Warbler said:

can we really conclude that Al Qaeda would only go after political targets?

Why waste good money and explosive on targets that don't interest them?

how do you know targeting the Boston Marathon wouldn't interest them.  

Leonardo said:

They are a political organization,

no they are not, they are a terrorist organization. 

Leonardo said:

They hit the WTC because, guess what, there was money there, World TRADE CENTER! It was a huge kick in the nuts not just to american economy, but to world economy!

they also did it because they knew the World Trade Center contain many, many people.   They did it because they knew it would spread fear. 

Leonardo said:

That they wouldn't go after targets where there are many Americans gathered together for them to murder? 

If you're going by that reasoning they should've done that during the Super Bowl. Juiciest occasion right there!!

of course they might go after the Superbowl.   Just because they haven't yet doesn't mean they won't try.    

Leonardo said:

I don't think they're concerned with just killing people for the heck of it. If you really think that the baddies want you dead just because they're bad, I'm sorry but you're naive.

you're being ridiculously politically correct and naive.  OF COURSE THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE!  THEY ARE A FUCKING TERRORIST ORGANIZATION! THEY CARRY OUT FUCKING TERRORIST ATTACKS! THE BOSTON BOMBING IS A TERRORIST ATTACK! THEY HAVE MURDERED AMERICANS AND THREATEN TO DO SO AGAIN!   HOW CAN YOU SAY THEY WOULDN'T BOMB THE BOSTON MARATHON?!?!    

Please read what Ender said.

darth_ender said:

Warbler said:

I've decided to come back in here due to the fact that the news about the events has changed and one suspect has been killed and the other is one the run

darth_ender said:  Of course Warbler was rushing to conclusions with little evidence,

this is what I originally said:

Warbler said:

If I had one guess, I'd guess Al Qaeda did this. 

is that really a rush to a conclusion?  I wasn't saying we shouldn't investigate further.  I wasn't saying we should conclude Al Qaeda did this and that we should just go after them.   I WAS MAKING A GUESS!!!!!

I will admit to making one mistake,  I should have added the following to that original post: "But it is entirely possible that Al Qaeda had nothing to do with this, and of course this should be fully investigated"   

If I had added that, the original post would have more accurately reflected my thoughts and feelings at that point.

But still, I think it was complete wrong to jump all over me and accuse me of racism, when all I did was guess that a terrorist organization(that had previously attacked American and had threatened to so again) was responsible for this terrorist attack. 

darth_ender said:

Oh, and Warbler, while I despise conspiracy theories, I think jumping all over Fan was a poor choice as well.  Better to shut down conspiracy theories with rational discussion than fiery but ultimately pointless words.

no matter how rational you try to be  with conspiracy nuts, and not matter how logical your argument are,  there is no way to shut him down.    And in the immediate aftermath of something like the Boston Bombing, I really don't feel like rationally arguing with a conspiracy nut. 

darth_ender said:

 There is a benefit to asking questions rather than just assuming the official story is 100% accurate, though I think those conspiracy theorists take it way too far.

Asking reasonable questions is one thing,  but that is not was these conspiracy nuts do.    They find out something like the Boston bombing happens and they go "Yippy! another chance a conspiracy theory, lies and false accusations!  Hmm,  how can I make this look like the government did this?"    

There is nothing reasonable or beneficial to what they do.     

I hope you realized that my post was actually defending you, regardless of any misstatements in that defense.

Sorry Ender.   I am just upset that after all this time, people would accuse me of racism just because I'd dare guess that a terrorist organization might might be guilty of a terrorist attack.

darth_ender said:

As for conspiracy theory nuts, they are not trying to spread lies.

maybe not all of them, but some of them are.

darth_ender said:

 They are extremely skeptical of information from mainstream sources, while extremely gullible to information from other sources.  

maybe true of some of them, but some of them whenever an event happens like the Boston bombing, start out with the conclusion that the government did it.   

darth_ender said:

They believe they are pursuing truth, though their methods are very flawed.

their methods are completely irrational, illogical and crazy. 

darth_ender said:

 They are the opposite extreme of most of the American public, who in general are too trusting of official information without being willing to examine other sources.  I'm not a fan either, and I probably err on the side of trusting my government, but it is wise to question.

if you want to question the official information fine, but do it logically and rationally and responsibility, and and coming up with theories at least consider how many people would have to be "in on it" in order of the theory to be true.    And also don't besmirch anyone's name and reputation without good reason.   

FanFiltration said:

darth_ender said:

As for conspiracy theory nuts, they are not trying to spread lies.  They are extremely skeptical of information from mainstream sources, while extremely gullible to information from other sources.  They believe they are pursuing truth, though their methods are very flawed.  They are the opposite extreme of most of the American public, who in general are too trusting of official information without being willing to examine other sources.  I'm not a fan either, and I probably err on the side of trusting my government, but it is wise to question.

I saw a video yesterday that condemns the way Alex Jones misleads people, and this video's presenter does it quite well. 

You Can't Make This Up. Oh Wait, YOU CAN!

10 minutes?  No thanks.  I'm going back to watching my German apocalyptic road movie.

^^A very gentle response.  I hope I didn't come off as too big a jerk, Leo (or anyone for that matter).  I like everyone here, even those I disagree with on motives and such, even those I've specifically disagreed with on this thread.  I obviously am feeling very passionate about this topic at this moment, as I imagine most of us are.

TV's Frink said:

FanFiltration said:

darth_ender said:

As for conspiracy theory nuts, they are not trying to spread lies.  They are extremely skeptical of information from mainstream sources, while extremely gullible to information from other sources.  They believe they are pursuing truth, though their methods are very flawed.  They are the opposite extreme of most of the American public, who in general are too trusting of official information without being willing to examine other sources.  I'm not a fan either, and I probably err on the side of trusting my government, but it is wise to question.

I saw a video yesterday that condemns the way Alex Jones misleads people, and this video's presenter does it quite well. 

You Can't Make This Up. Oh Wait, YOU CAN!

10 minutes?  No thanks.  I'm going back to watching my German apocalyptic road movie.

they need to put a straight jacket on Alex Jones and lock him up in a padded cell.    At least it seems that FanFiltration isn't as crazy as that.   You can't tell my that Alex Jones isn't a guy first assumes that the government was responsible and then spreads lies and false accusations.    He goes wayyyyyy beyond simply asking questions.   I can't what the video for more than 10 seconds. 

thejediknighthusezni said:

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

     

There's a lot of it about.

There are conspiracies, some of them are government conspiracies.

Real ones without shape-shifting Russian doll monsters so while I'm not an advocate for paranoia it's nuts to label everyone who notices this nuts.

Some are pretty nutty but not all nuts believe in conspiracies.

Alex Jones is to Pepsi what Fox News is to Coke I'm aware of the flavour of both but I refuse to inhale either of them.

it looks like they got the 2nd suspect. 

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

     

quoted for truth.   jediknightusezni also needs to be put into a straight jacket and put in a padded cell. 

thejediknighthusezni said:

       Well, It looks like it boils down to one of three possibilities.      1) Exactly what we are supposed to believe. Chechens and New Elvis and... ... blah blah... jews... ...                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               The media producers and conspiracy nuts have 1 and 2 well covered. Let's take a look at 3.               ... illuminati...        ....                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           ..   ... ...    feces...    Obama and his gang... manifesto...                                                                                                                                                                         It's the immediate emotional response of the sheeple that matters. It blocks or overwhelms anything rational for a majority. New Elvis and "Waco" distracts from the catastrophe and failure while making it about his enemies.

Here's the reason I know your a crazy (or perhaps a troll).

The evidence you present has no bearing on what you believe, and yet to you it is iron-clad proof.

If the Boston Bombers had been Arabs, or Right-Wing Extremists, or Angry Fracophone Quebecer Liberation people, you'd believe the same conspiracy nonsense. 

If the Waco explosion had happened tomorrow, or last month, or if the ricin had been sent by a Portugese college professor in Seatlle, you'd believe the same conspiracy nonsense.

If Texas and the ricin hadn't happened, you'd believe the same conspiracy nonsense and act like all the pieces fit. 

That's why there's no point talking to a loon. Every single thing is evidence for what they believe in, and everything that DOESN'T happen is evidence that the conspiracy is successfully pulling the wool over our eyes.

Don't forget the awful formatting.

Yes, well obviously. That's the biggest issue with any of this conspiracy theory bullshit. The conclusion precedes the evidence. Then either the evidence proves the premise despite a variety of more likely, provable theories, or the lack of evidence proves the premise because the provable theories are arbitrarily targeted as lies on the sole basis of not fitting with the premise. It's the opposite of rational, critical thinking and the reason why anyone who has brains in their skull writes off this kind of crap. Conspiracy theorists are the cheaters who try to force pieces of a child's puzzle together in ways that don't fit but still swear there is a legitimate picture in the random way they have sorted it together.

Warbler said:

they need to put a straight jacket on Alex Jones and lock him up in a padded cell.

No thanks. I'd rather have my freedom of speech, and the security of being able to say and believe what I want without fear of being put in a straight jacket and thrown in a padded cell just because someone disagrees with me, or thinks the things I say are crazy.

Love it, or hate it, Alex Jones is a great example of what makes America kind of awesome. America misses more than she hits, she needs all the awesome she can get her hands on.