The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 24

Bingowings said:

muddyknees2000 said:

Ronster said:

...would it not be better for the whole PT if we never saw the Emperor until ROTS and only Palpatine as it is pretty obvious who he is...

While I like this idea quite a lot.....I think you end up losing some of the better scenes that the PT has involving the dark side characters.....Dooku meeting with Palps at the end of AOTC for instance. 

I fail to see how that scene of any narrative value what so ever in it's current form.

It confirms that Dooku is a Sith Lord.

What with the red saber, Sith lightning, generally being a bit naughty this is not really a surprise.

Actually, I quite felt like they were presenting Dooku to us as an in-between type character. The very last scene (which actually somewhat ruined the character of Dooku for me by making him a flat out bad guy and NOT an in-between) does in fact (or did for me) confirm that no, he's not playing anyone...he IS a bad guy. I felt like he was enough of a grey area character, neither black nor white, that he did need to confirm what exactly he was, or who's side he was on, or if perhaps he WAS on both sides (the option I was personally hoping for)

It definitely CAN be argued that this is accomplished elsewhere, but its just a visually beautiful scene.....in a film where much of what you're looking at feels like filler.

To paraphrase Sting."All I see is another PT ship landing scene I want to kill".

I don't think it's visually interesting let alone beautiful, It's possible elements might be saved and redressed with different dialogue.

Dooku could arrive in TPM for example and talk to the council or arrive at Naboo and attend his student's funeral.

But as it stands it has no more impact than Vader landing on the Executor in ESB:SE.

I like the Lambda shuttle flying shot in ESB because it shows the characters like pieces on a chess board moving to different locations... But the docking Bay and Vader walking off which is actually on the deathstar needs to get destroyed never to return as does walking out to the shuttle on landing platform on bespin. But if it goes then it goes but I'd like the Lambda flying towards the executor retained if possible.

The way I am currently seeing the ship leave from geonosis is Grevious gets on that ship and dooku gets killed and does not make it. The ship only flys away and does not go to coruscant and we don't see grevious again only hear that he is dead by the hands of obi-wan.

Palpatine held hostage on geonosis also? If it's possible I would say yes the too duels need to be joined into one duel. with no dialogue from palps about leaving obi-wan behind.  But I am not 100% for that idea and not sure It might be better to just have Dooku killed and Grievous escape.

We don't need to see grievous get killed, He is better left more to the imagination I think

This would eradicate the whole stupid action section of ROTS which is a train wreck.

I think Adywans Idea of Darth Vader (in suit) going to the Jedi Temple is the idea that would make ROTS truly amazing if it could be pulled off but re-arranging the plot will be difficult... He must have a draft sub-plot or something to allow this to happen that will need filming... I doubt he would confirm that idea without knowing it is do able

What do you guys think about the Jedi's dressing like farmers from Tatooine in their prime years of diplomatic service to the Republic?

edit: or maybe the Lars family is simply pretending to be Jedi to keep from being ripped off by those sly Jawa's...

AntcuFaalb said:

muddyknees2000 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

How do you feel about Yub Nub?

I think that in a film full of soaring, fantastical and moving pieces of music, that tell as much of a story as the action on the screen does.....Yub Flub is a substantial failure. Again, instead of telling of a slightly tragic victory, where Luke met, and ultimately killed his own father....instead of strains of hopeful dreams for the new galaxy and the growing relationship between Han & Leia.......instead of new beginnings for a once shady, but now much celebrated hero, Lando Calrissian.....we get teddy bears singing a nonsensical little party song.

The song isn't the only thing to blame......I think the ending could have been more bittersweet, and more interesting than the group photo pose that we did get......but the music definitely doesn't help what is already a rather silly film.

This is why we view the films differently...

While I admit that Star Wars fits the literary archetype of the epic journey (a.k.a., the hero's journey), I fail to see its value as anything more than a three-part morality tale with great characters, creatures, and Jim Henson Muppet-monsters. What I'm trying to say is that I, personally, take more away from the Jabba the Hutt scenes at the beginning of ROTJ -- filled with the laughter of Salacious B. Crumb -- than I do from watching Darth Vader's internal struggle when deciding whether or not to save his son from the hands of the emperor.

Don't get me wrong: I certainly enjoy the more serious aspects of the films, but what I most look forward to is Lapti Nek in ROTJ, not the Battle of Hoth in TESB.

I understand how you view the films and see why Yub Nub doesn't meet your expectations. Considering my POV, do you see why it exceeds mine?

I Like Lapti Nek... Adywan said he is removing Jedi Rocks which I am happy about but he has not said that he will be re-instating Lapti-nek.

But if this was a Lapti-nek Vs Yub-nub competition

Lapti-nek wins 

And if it were a Lapti-nek Vs Jedi Rocks

Lapti-nek Wins

At least for me...

Although he has not stated he will re-incorporate Lapti-nek I am hoping he will... But I hope we get something different at the end from both Yub Nub and the ewok song

perhaps Alberto balsalm by Aphex twin might work in a weird and wonderful way to upstage both of them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XlTjeNHv-8

AntcuFaalb said:

I understand how you view the films and see why Yub Nub doesn't meet your expectations. Considering my POV, do you see why it exceeds mine?

Absolutely.....but you ARE correct....you and I are both taking away very different things from this experience.

As for "Lapti Nek".....I'm pretty sure Ady has confirmed that neither it nor "Jedi Sucks" will be returning to the Revisited cut. Something new will replace it. I have not heard what yet (I personally would like to see a gambling scene where Oola is placing Jabba's bets for him, loses, and gets dropped into the pit)

Ronster said:

I think Adywans Idea of Darth Vader (in suit) going to the Jedi Temple is the idea that would make ROTS truly amazing if it could be pulled off but re-arranging the plot will be difficult... He must have a draft sub-plot or something to allow this to happen that will need filming... I doubt he would confirm that idea without knowing it is do able

He does indeed have it all laid out....and it works really well.

The shuttle sequence in ESB:SE is as necessary as a sex scene in the PT to prove Star Wars humans still do it that way.

We know Vader got there (to the ship), he asked for his shuttle and then he was back on his ship so we don't need to see him going there (to the ship). 

Going Back to the PT again... Sorry I am off work and been fiddling about with the footage and heres what I have as a few requests or suggestions.

ROTS:R

1.When you remove a lot of the lame jokes and crap cgi or stupid stuff from them... They stand up a lot better as films not only this but miraculously the acting appears to improve a bit too.

2. I hope that in ROTS:R Anakin has the premonition of Padmes death and never tells her directly "she dies in child birth" and Padme in that scene later goes on to dismiss the premonition as "it's only a dream"

Remember No mention from Anakin of death in child birth the first time we hear it is from palps... Gives it a big impact. And actually makes for some really good drama that one.

3. Not sure How adywan is thinking of approaching Yoda and Ben getting to the jedi temple, but I would love to see Ben do the force trick he does in A new hope where he distracts the storm troopers from the tractor beam and sneaks in. New footage, Hooded Jedi Robe yeah would be nice. There is a good close up of Obi-wan fighting though the rest is awful.

4. Cutting a lot of the over the top acrobatics tends to make the fights more realistic and more dramatic... The Obi-wan duel with anakin on the Lava flow... I hope in ROTS:R that Anakin will drop down onto the same raft as Obiwan and they will fight and talk there until Obi-wan jumps off and you then are at "It's over, I have the high ground" Removing the mirrored force push is also a massive improvement

5.Sideous really becomes more sinister if you cut his stupid twisty flips when using a light sabre Also drastically cutting back on Yoda too and the duel removing the "stupid acrobatic stuff" more dialogue and force powers will work to make this better assuming this duel makes it in ROTS:R

But I am now looking forward to a PT:R which I did not before I have done a few exercises to look at it now with fresh perspective.

But as far as episode 1 TPM I really have no ideas for this one, I am stumped... Totally stumped on this I think it will be the hardest to get right for PT:R

Throwing some more random ideas around, I think one serious issue of the Prequels is the lack of design consistency. I do not mean only visual design and aesthetics, as Episode 1 clearly looks like the odd one (although certainly the best one, IMHO) but how consistent the universe is. Of all the designs to appear in the Prequels, the only one that appears in the entire trilogy are the B-1 battle droids, and the Neimodians. That's it.

Now, take the Original Trilogy. You have a great diversity of designs but coherence too. Ships and vehicles are characters in themselves and clearly help reinforce the overall feeling of the different factions. You can easily distinguish who's vehicle is on screen, and it helps set a mood and tone to the scene. The OT had several designs appear in the entire trilogy with a lot of screen time:

1. Star Destroyer;
2. Millenium Falcon
3. TIE Fighter 
4. X-Wing

In the entire trilogy with more limited screen time:

1. Blockade Runner
2. Y-Wing
3. Super Star Destroyer
4. Rebel Frigate

Additionally, there were many designs that appeared in two movies, or had enough visual coherence to be immediately identifiable (Rebel Runner / Gunship, TIE Bomber / Interceptor, etc.).

What does the prequel have, appearing at least in two movies, disregarding the horrible battle droids (admittedly, there's enough footage of these guys to edit them into decent adversaries)? The Trade Federation "donut"ship, at least a memorable design, the N-1 and... eh... ?

Te Confederacy looks like a toy store, not an actual military faction. At least not one that is coherent enough visually so as to be easily identifiable as an adversary in a movie.

We need more ships to actually be characters in the Prequels just like the Falcon was in the battle against the Empire. I'd really like to see some of the Confederacy ships, like Grievous' Invisible Hand cruiser, introduced as early as Episode 1 and other, like the AAT tank or STAP speeder persisting throughout.

Not to mention a central ship acting in the fashion of the Falcon. The Prequels desperately need that. For a movie called Star Wars there was most definitely not enough space, even as a setting, much less space combat action, in Ep. 1 - 3.

PS. Excuse me horrible English, not my native language and I'm dead tired as I write this. I hope it is comprehensible ?

It might be fun to start of TPM with the Queen's chrome ship but then have them trade it with a beat up looking 'unique fixer upper opportunity' on Tatooine (they gamble for kid Skywalker not the parts, they simply trade the broken fancy ship for a functioning rustbucket to dodge Darth Darth).

Which over two films is added to until...

Bingowings said:

It might be fun to start of TPM with the Queen's chrome ship but then have them trade it with a beat up looking 'unique fixer upper opportunity' on Tatooine (they gamble for kid Skywalker not the parts, they simply trade the broken fancy ship for a functioning rustbucket to dodge Darth Darth).

Which over two films is added to until...

 

Not Bad Bingo,

But the real problem at least with TPM is that there is a lot of things that look horrible now let alone in 10 years time, Bad Cgi and it is so heavily integrated into this film on most very important scenes more than AOTC and ROTS.

After stripping this film out of stuff I hated about it I was left with about 30 minutes of what I liked

The Good

Darth Maul

Naboo Space and Naboo Culture / architecture

Coruscant

The Bad

Underwater city Naboo

Tattooine and the Pod Race

Anakin

The Ugly

C3-PO & Yoda

Jar-Jar and Gungans

Battledroids.

Questions

Are The revisited team going to re-film another Anakin for this or what?

Design create new battle droids?

Get rid of the Gungans?

Is the Pod Race Staying?

Yoda getting cut? I guess C3-PO will be out...

Just curious - what do you guys like about Darth Maul?  I know a lot of people like him, and say he's the best thing in Ep 1, so I'm curious what it is about him that people like.

(and I know, being the best thing in Ep 1 might not mean much...)

obikal said:

Just curious - what do you guys like about Darth Maul?  I know a lot of people like him, and say he's the best thing in Ep 1, so I'm curious what it is about him that people like.

 

(and I know, being the best thing in Ep 1 might not mean much...)

I actually don't like him all that much.....I think his showiness is a big part of whats wrong with the PT...only eclipsed by Grievous.

muddyknees2000 said:

obikal said:

Just curious - what do you guys like about Darth Maul?  I know a lot of people like him, and say he's the best thing in Ep 1, so I'm curious what it is about him that people like.

 

(and I know, being the best thing in Ep 1 might not mean much...)

I actually don't like him all that much.....I think his showiness is a big part of whats wrong with the PT...only eclipsed by Grievous.

Yeah, that's actually kind of what I'm curious about.  People (generality - not anyone in particular) say they don't like the flipping and twirling lightsaber battles but then say how much they love Darth Maul.

To me, the coolest thing about him was the mystery they setup - but then that really didn't go anywhere - he was as much of a pawn as everyone else against the Republic and Jedi.  

To me it would have been better as a reoccurring enemy that has a backstory that becomes more developed throughout the first 2 episodes.  Perhaps Anakin sees the need to get more power quickly to defeat him, and turns to the dark side then?  Obi-wan is there in the fight to witness it?

I wonder how hard it would be to replace Grievous with Darth Vader?

The first time we meet him he could be just wearing a suit of armour and a mask (as a disguise) later he could be turned into a cyborg because of the lava party.

obikal said:

Just curious - what do you guys like about Darth Maul?  I know a lot of people like him, and say he's the best thing in Ep 1, so I'm curious what it is about him that people like.

 

(and I know, being the best thing in Ep 1 might not mean much...)

I think The best thing about Darth Maul as it was our first look at something different...

There was no Vader and Vader had huge intuition with the force...

Darth Maul although he had force powers was a lesser being than Vader who very much relied on a combination of technology and skill and force powers.. And he looked quite scary and he had a double light sabre staff.

He had a bit of uniqueness design quality about him and he was portrayed very much like a henchman tracker and hunter.

Darth Maul was like the Boba Fett of the PT but not only this he was a very talented Martial artist and athlete and he played the part well to boot amongst a lot of drab crap he was something that stood out as ok well that was good.

Adywan should hire him to do more on TPM he lives in the UK or is from the UK, I reckon he would be up for it personally. He seemed like a good bloke

Darth Maul is just a hulked out...thing.....with a double ended light saber to make the fanboys go nuts.  Nothing about E1 is redeemable for the larger picture fanedit.

The Empire as seen in 4-6 is xenophobic and while they outsource to bounty hunters in V it is otherwise white human and male.  I find Maul to not fit into this even if in terms of TPM we are talking proto-Empire.  Maul is ultimately a dumb villian that serves as a lackey for the proto-Emperor who, like Fett in V/VI is dispatched too easily and quickly.

Dooku falls to a similar fate.  There is ample opportunity here to have a Lando-esque character whose allegiance is ambiguous and the opportunity is squandered.  Maul should have never been there, imagine E1 if Dooku was the agent of Palpatine and didn't die at the end and was ported into E2 as something more than a weak plot device.

regularjoe said:

...imagine E1 if Dooku was the agent of Palpatine and didn't die at the end and was ported into E2 as something more than a weak plot device.

This is a wet dream of mine.