The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 23

timdiggerm said:

How is discussion of Ronster's edit part of the Revisited thread?  

sorry I won't cloud the thread with all my ideas but I made the main points I wanted to make about the PT...and they were suggestions for revisited

I have been playing with footage "for ideas" and don't make suggestions unless they are possible it is my method to avoid pie in the sky or elaborate ideas without seeing "opportunity" in footage.

The points are aimed as Ideas for revisited... but goes in hand with messing about and analysis

I honestly don't remember what I thought about when Obi-wan said "the clone wars": but it definitely wasn't actual clones...

I'm actually a huge fan of Plinkett's suggestion about the clones and how the war should take a toll on Coruscant itself - there should be a draft for the Republic army (go on to be the storm troopers, no clones), war torn buildings, poverty, etc.  That would make the war feel that much more real.

One suggestion I have for AOTC, remove Zam completely and that assassination attempt.  It goes nowhere honestly.  You can have the kybar dart be a piece of shrapnel found on the landing platform from the introductory assassination attempt.  Obi-wan then gets it analyzed and the droids say it's from the Kamino system or whatever you want them to say.

So the first act of AOTC would be this basic flow:

-landing assassination attempt

-Padme addresses the Senate deleted scene (explains very clearly WHY she is targeted for assassination)

-Chancellor's quarters about Padme needing extra protection

-Jedi Council giving Obi and Anakin orders to investigate and protect Padme

-Obi investigates kybar dart deleted scene

-Padme and Anakin leave for Naboo

-*newly created scene* as Anakin and Padme fly off above Coruscant (he's piloting a small ship just for the 2 of them), Slave I surprises them and there's a bit of fancy manuevering for Anakin to show off his skills a bit, and Anakin and Padme blast into hyperspace just in time

I also like the idea of Anakin being just another Jedi in training.  No chosen one prophecy or anything.  Anakin and Padme know of each other simply because of Obi-wan and Padme being connected in the past - don't need anymore up front explanation other than that.  (edit dialogue around this - no surprise at how much Anakin has grown, he hasn't seen her in 10 years, etc)  Romance blossoms while he's protecting her.

I think the assassination attempt is a good scene, the aftermath is where it falls over.... it's the horribly executed sky car chase that ruins any tension or fear of Padme getting killed it's supposed to be a serious moment and it turns into a circus act.

If the droid gets destroyed by sniper fire or even remote detonation and... Obiwan could dive out the way (flipped away from the window or down to ground) of the blast or sniper fire... The actual chase can play out on foot without all the stupid sky diving and lame jokes... Anakin makes a run out of the door we cut to him pursuing the bounty hunter on foot from the start.

This would really up the tension with obi-wan catching up with him at the club and telling him he forgot his light sabre.. etc.

It's all the stupid crap antics that stop the PT being remotely plausible and a switch off and I quote again losing the immersion.

It's like Bladerunner on amphetiines the sky car chase and I have to say I despise it.

Coruscant should degrade over the course of the films agreed

and good call on the order of scenes I like the deleted scene too of the senate and use of deleted scene to identify dart is a much better way to go than dex... Just cut out Jar-Jar looking crap as usual out of senate scene

Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?

ben_danger said:

Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?

Saw that idea and just ran with it, you might just have influenced my edit of Episode II...

Anyhow, in regards to Episode II, I still purpose my method of a completely new rearragned plot.  I have the Geonosis arena in the beginning to accomplish multiple things.  For one, all the OT films start in the midst of action.  The crawls allow them to skip boring exposition.  Episode I and II feel to much like the beginning of films, unlike Episodes III-VI.  We need to get right in there with the characters.  Second, it allows more theoretical screentime for Dooku, as we'll see him early on along with other scenes placed throughout the film.  Third, it allows action to be more often in the film, since we don't just pile all the good stuff at the end; it needs to be entertaining throughout.  To me, it's one of the worst issues with Episodes I and II.

Episode III does start out better, but I feel that there still needs to be more action. This film feels the least Star-Warsish, and more like some stupid Soap Opera.  Again, rearranging to give a more consitent amount of action will certainly help.

One thing I really want to see in PT:R is almost every FX shot completely replaced/recomposited, along with enhancements to any shots that look good enough (there are some good ones in Episode I with the minatures, but it stops there.)  I really just want way, way less CGI than what currently exists in the PT.

ben_danger said:

Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?

You just blew my mind.

ben_danger said:

Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?

Pretty Good call... 

Not trying to dampen your idea it is a good one :)

The conversation probably is not needed outside the room... But the only potential problem I see with it is that they are assigned to protect her so why are they rushing to get there in a car, like they have been off doing something they should not have?

But it certainly might work, not saying it won't

I agree with you nightstalkerpoet that looking over the films and analysis of the PT can start to get you excited for PT:R I also think it is needed right now perhaps to spur some more interest in what people might notice or just kick some ideas about.

It's good to thrash these films out a bit

I am trying to get some creative juices flowing on this thread and actually the main purpose for me at least for a while as my work is quiet is to realize the Prequel Trilogy "OTified"

Not a real word but I like "OTified" to describe what can be done to make the PT feel more like the OT.

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I wanted to add to this post but would it not be better for the whole PT if we never saw the Emperor until ROTS and only Palpatine as it is pretty obvious who he is.. It does not take sherlock holmes to figure out....

Like not see Sidious until Mace Windu threatens to kill him.

I doubt it's possible or atleast removal of all hologram communication and have only radio messages would help that to work making him more conspicuous with only senator / chancellor palpatine getting screen time until the end.

Probably already suggested anyway I thought I would put it forward

Ronster said:

...would it not be better for the whole PT if we never saw the Emperor until ROTS and only Palpatine as it is pretty obvious who he is...

While I like this idea quite a lot.....I think you end up losing some of the better scenes that the PT has involving the dark side characters.....Dooku meeting with Palps at the end of AOTC for instance. 

I'm not a fan of Palpatine being able to cloud all of the Jedi's vision completely like he does.  I'm ok with him masterminding the War to get him more power.  That's fine.  Even better if the Jedi sense it, and suspect the Chancellor.  Otherwise, what about Yoda telling Luke that the Dark side isn't stronger?  AND being emphatic about it?  If the Emperor is powerful enough to cloud all of the Jedi Council's vision... maybe the Dark side IS stronger...  Maybe Yoda was so emphatic because he's embarrassed that the Dark side is stronger and doesn't want to admit it...

Along that point, IF Yoda and Palpatine go head to head in a duel (which I'm honestly ok with), I don't think they should be even close to evenly matched.  I want Yoda to thrash the Emperor, but quit the fight because innocent lives are in danger or something like that.  Make it so that Yoda "fails" because he is protecting lives, not because he's weaker. 

Ronster said:

ben_danger said:

Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?

Pretty Good call... 

Not trying to dampen your idea it is a good one :)

The conversation probably is not needed outside the room... But the only potential problem I see with it is that they are assigned to protect her so why are they rushing to get there in a car, like they have been off doing something they should not have?

Yeah there are a pile of issues with it. I have been mulling over some vague broader ideas which it might be able to fit with however -

A new STAR WARS ep 1 which uses some TPM stuff as an opening for AOTC. The three core characters would start in different places

The film would open with Seperatist invasion of Naboo (The first act of the Clone Wars). Naboo and Geonosis are combined as a desert world, so Theed would be like an oasis city. The Geonosians are the savage desert dwellers who hate the Oasis folk. Padme is introduced fighting her way from the throne room to the hangar. Royal Starship escapes and blasts into Hyperspace.

Meanwhile Obi-wan Kenobi inspects the Clone Army. Not sure what the plot hook would be for this, but for whatever the reason he meets and fights the Mandalorian. He pursues him to Coruscant.

Padme would push for the creation of a Clone Army to liberate her homeworld.

Obi Wan - following the Mandalorian - somehow gets tipped off that Padme is the next target. He sees an exchange with Zam and pursues them. Somehow he ends up on that droid thing and gets shot off. He falls and gets caught by a speeder - introducing Anakin Skywalker. Zam could be chasing them, but her speeder could have guns on it? The droid thing meanwhile arrives at padme's. The Jedi arrive just in time, Anakin meets Padme for the first time.

Anakin is charged with protecting Padme, Obi-Wan is charged with travelling to Desert-Naboo, and negotiating with the Seperatists.

Naboo as seen in AOTC becomes Alderan, a green peaceful world. Padme is revealed by a mysterious spy (using Darth Maul footage) Droids invade forcing them to leave.

Anakin takes her to his homeworld - Tatooine. The spy follows them there, hunting Padme by sending those ball droids looking for her. They recieve a message from occupied Desert-Naboo informing them that Obi-Wan Kenobi is to be executed (as an act of war). Padme, sick of running, decides that they should attempt a hopeless rescue.

They travel to Desert/Naboo (ie geonosis). There are no Droid Factories, just a massive occupying force. They are captured and sentenced to death in the arena. The Clones show up, and defeat the droids.

I always liked the idea of Dooku wearing a CG Mask until a big reveal moment. This would allow for an extra to stand in for him in some essential earlier scenes, as well as some easy redubbing with a mechanical voice.

obikal said:

I'm not a fan of Palpatine being able to cloud all of the Jedi's vision completely like he does.  I'm ok with him masterminding the War to get him more power.  That's fine.  Even better if the Jedi sense it, and suspect the Chancellor.  Otherwise, what about Yoda telling Luke that the Dark side isn't stronger?  AND being emphatic about it?  If the Emperor is powerful enough to cloud all of the Jedi Council's vision... maybe the Dark side IS stronger...  Maybe Yoda was so emphatic because he's embarrassed that the Dark side is stronger and doesn't want to admit it...

Along that point, IF Yoda and Palpatine go head to head in a duel (which I'm honestly ok with), I don't think they should be even close to evenly matched.  I want Yoda to thrash the Emperor, but quit the fight because innocent lives are in danger or something like that.  Make it so that Yoda "fails" because he is protecting lives, not because he's weaker. 

The Battle between yoda and the emperor is fine with force powers and lightning from sideous but I don't like acrobatic yoda....

Good call on trying to save others though if the actual senate Auditorium had people in it that were falling to their deaths or getting killed that would perhaps be enough for yoda to call it a day.

Obviously the Jedi would be blamed for the deaths as a retaliation on the republic

Really the intense force powers and lightning should not be shown till ROTJ.  If the order of the films is to truly be 1-6, the action and tension needs to build up on eachother.

thejediknighthusezni said:

               I wonder if it's possible to slim down the ewoks and give them a different fur texture to make them less teddy bear- like and more wild predator in appearance. Build on top of what's already there. That along with facial feature changes. Maybe morphing type tech. Then blinks and cantinization.

I've never had a problem with the way they've looked.....with their domed, unblinking eyes I actually found them rather creepy looking. It was their teddy bear like mannerisms that made us feel that they weren't to be taken seriously. The ewok musical themes that were designed for them (wicket's especially) didn't help either.

AntcuFaalb said:

muddyknees2000 said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

               I wonder if it's possible to slim down the ewoks and give them a different fur texture to make them less teddy bear- like and more wild predator in appearance. Build on top of what's already there. That along with facial feature changes. Maybe morphing type tech. Then blinks and cantinization.

I've never had a problem with the way they've looked.....with their domed, unblinking eyes I actually found them rather creepy looking. It was their teddy bear like mannerisms that made us feel that they weren't to be taken seriously. The ewok musical themes that were designed for them (wicket's especially) didn't help either.

I agree and think there's value in the lightheartedness they bring to ROTJ. Yub Nub FTW.

IMO, one of the wonderful things about Star Wars is that the films never took themselves too seriously (whatever the hell that means -- films don't think!).

Don't mistake my meaning.....I think their LOOK works as is...without blinks or changes to their physical appearance.......but the Ewoks need some serious editing to make them work in the film. They make what should have been an epic climax into a pathetic joke.

You can make ewoks less silly but you just have to accept them for what they are.....

they are nowhere near as bad looking or as bad sounding as Jar Jar or grievous. But the seeds were planted here with the ewoks

As far as the lightning force powers go... I never actually thought of it like that before... It first showed up in ROTJ but I don'y mind it being there earlier in revisited I think it would be really hard to get rid of... I can live with that

AntcuFaalb said:

How do you feel about Yub Nub?

I think that in a film full of soaring, fantastical and moving pieces of music, that tell as much of a story as the action on the screen does.....Yub Flub is a substantial failure. Again, instead of telling of a slightly tragic victory, where Luke met, and ultimately killed his own father....instead of strains of hopeful dreams for the new galaxy and the growing relationship between Han & Leia.......instead of new beginnings for a once shady, but now much celebrated hero, Lando Calrissian.....we get teddy bears singing a nonsensical little party song.

The song isn't the only thing to blame......I think the ending could have been more bittersweet, and more interesting than the group photo pose that we did get......but the music definitely doesn't help what is already a rather silly film.

I too agree.  People knock the Ewoks, and I admit they were made too cute, but I believe that they could easily be fixed up.  As was noted, a few cosmetic changes could make them look a little more fierce.  I'd also recommend redubbing for them, a little more mystery in cutting the Wicket/Leia intro (as has been demonstrated), and finally implications that they've already been upset with the Empire and have been preparing for an attack for some time.  SSWR or something like that did some very interesting mockups with stormtrooper helmets strewn about the village, and using a few radio drama with C3PO implying that they are ticked at the invasion of their world.  I incorporated some of his ideas in my low quality ROTJ edit which you can find in my signature.  I am convinced that with edits and effects easily in Adywan's scope, the Ewoks can be toughened up, not to mention including the additional commando fighting to give better balance and further improve believability.

muddyknees2000 said:

Ronster said:

...would it not be better for the whole PT if we never saw the Emperor until ROTS and only Palpatine as it is pretty obvious who he is...

While I like this idea quite a lot.....I think you end up losing some of the better scenes that the PT has involving the dark side characters.....Dooku meeting with Palps at the end of AOTC for instance. 

I fail to see how that scene of any narrative value what so ever in it's current form.

It confirms that Dooku is a Sith Lord.

What with the red saber, Sith lightning, generally being a bit naughty this is not really a surprise.

It confirms that he is known in Sith circles as Darth Tyrannus and is therefore they guy who recruited Fett (if he was telling the truth). Fett has is seen being Dooku's bodyguard for much of the last third of the film (which is stupid anyway if he is the clone template) so no surprise there either.

It's not even visually interesting and continues the joke from TPM that somehow we are meant to still be guessing who Sidious is meant to be (maybe he is a clone of Palpatine or his brother or an android duplicate or a shapeshifter but for some reason he still feels the need to hide the his eyes from the camera... nope he's just Palpatine).

Dooku as a Sith doesn't work anywhere near as much as Dooku as a Jedi patsy fighting the Sith Lord while giving him the means to actually take over via a rigged war.

Love the idea about turning the speeder chase around so it's a raise to save the Senator from Naboo.

Not sure how it would start though.