Bingo, did you see how daneditor (with some suggestion from me) handled Fett? He still dies, but I think it's more interesting. It's obviously not perfect, but dan is limited by the fanedits he has access to, and I still think he did a pretty darn good job. It doesn't display the character growth you describe (which quite frankly is very interesting and would have been cool to see), but it does at least give Fett a less comical ending.
I did see it but at the risk of insulting the chap which isn't my intension, I have no memory at all of how that played out. Which is better than the mega groan of the original, could you refresh my memory? How does he do it?
Daneditor keeps Fett in Jabba's palace at the onset, but then has him leave (in a very similar shot to what you and Davnes did in that little sample video you guys made). There is no Fett in the sail barge battle. He goes to the Death Star and meets with Vader, who instructs him to help find Luke, but not harm him. He is given a free hand with Solo. When Luke and the team arrive at Endor, Fett is dispatched to the surface where he begins to track them. He observes Luke leaving with Vader in the shuttle, but continues his manhunt for Han. During the land battle, he blows up some Ewoks with a thermal detonator, finds a dying stormtrooper and finishes him off, but waits until the main part of the battle is over, and then he is the one who shoots Leia in the arm. He prepares to kill both Han and Leia, but Leia shoots him and he falls to the ground. The wound is not lethal and he again rises and prepares to kill them, when Chewie in the AT-ST arrives and kills him for good. I may be misremembering parts because he and I discussed different means of accomplishing the goal and he sent me several samples where I provided my opinion. For instance, Fett's orders may have come after he arrived on the surface via a holographic discussion with Vader instead of on the Death Star (I can't remember, and I'm not at my computer right now). I might have done a couple of things differently, but overall I thought it was cool how it turned out. Dan did a pretty good job.
Considering all the footage came from various fanedits, it made me realize that if footage were filmed specifically for an ROTJ edit, there would be even more possibilities in how one deals with Fett.
Double Toast.
Ok I didn't see it. I think I would have remembered that. Why did I think I saw it then?
He released his official edit, but he's also been working on an experimental edit off and on that he gives folks access to if they ask. He feels it's not complete enough to make an official release at this point, and he's waiting for folks to improve the quality of the deleted scenes and perhaps a couple of other fan films (Tydirium and THX) before making an official release of it. The official edit is based entirely upon ROTJ with no fan film footage.
I'd like to see Fett just blast his way out of the sarlacc in the end. The way they handled Fett in ROTJ was too much of a joke.
I have a question though. I know Adywan stated he would have no mentions of the Expanded Universe, but I'd still like to see some possible nods to perhaps the Thrawn Trilogy. Through be told it was one of the few good things in the Expanded Universe, and you can always use the audio from the ROTJ radioplay which features Mara Jade under the guise of Arica or even a mention to Grand Admiral Thrawn. I personally think that it would be kind of cool to see. This mostly came about because I just finished rereading the whole Thrawn Trilogy and decided to mention it.
I like the idea of cutting Fett out of Jedi completely. I'd prefer if he just shows up in Empire, does his job and then disappears. Makes him much more intriguing.
I'm certainly against MORE Fett in Jedi. Why would he be on a manhunt for Han? He has no reason for a personal grudge. At least no reason that we see in the films. Han was just a bounty Fett cashed in on.
Bingowings said:
Double Noon on the Dune Sea.
I would so totally watch that.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
I find it incredible how people are so against Boba's death. He was barely a secondary character to begin with - people built him up to be this legendary person - why? Because he looks cool. Then they killed him off and everyone's dreams were crushed.
Star Wars Renascent
Inspired by the Godfather Part II and a revamp of Star Wars: Reborn
I can see both sides of the argument, and in the end I kind of come down on the side of indifference.
In ESB, Boba Fett didn't do much really. He was smart enough to realize Han was still in the area and only hiding, but beyond that he only told Vader where they were going in time for Vader to get there first.
I can see the problem with a slapstick death, but more because it's slapstick--not because it cheapens Fett as a character.
...I suppose where I really come down on it is that I like the original theatrical versions of the OOT, and so for me the issue is more about whether arbitrary changes to the death of an obscure character are warranted when they do nothing to help the plot or else fix inconsistencies. That is to say, Fett's death can be changed, but only if it doesn't change the film to feel different than it did originally. For example, putting more AT-STs at the Battle of Hoth not only fixes inconsistencies, but it also makes sense. And yet it doesn't really change anything with regard to the story.
Unlike the prequels, I don't feel that the OOT needs improving or fixing in order to become good films. They're great the way they are. Ady can change Fett's death to something that might make more sense, but if he makes changes to the story, then I don't want it.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
I watched the prequel trilogy yesterday and I have to admit I don't really care for the films much... I want to like them I really try to like them and take snippets of them as yeah ok it's star wars.
But truth is they are beyond redemption.....
Adywan has great skills with his editing and visual enhancements he is doing to the OT but I have to admit that the PT has the following issues and can not be fixed in after effects.
1. Bad Acting
2. Poor character development
3. Don't like a lot of the characters most could be thrown away
4. Rubbish Plot
5. Who gives a s**t
6. Too much CGI Animation does not feel real
Now this post is not intended to offend people who love everything star wars but how on earth could the prequel trilogy be bought up to the same standards as the original trilogy?
It actually troubles me that Adywan will devote years to trying to get the PT to a better place, and it seems impossible....
I think it would be better choice to make the PT as one film using flash backs to tattooine for Anakins history / back story with Padme
It should start at the end of TPM use parts of AOTOC but mainly Be material from ROTS
Grievous should be cut out totally.... Christopher lee can die on Geonosis meaning the space battle also get's cut because it is awful
The Arena Battle should be Cut on Geonosis. As should the invasion of Naboo and the gungans
Actually most of the action needs to get cut out in my opinion as the over the top action really ruins it and what essentially separates it from the OT.
Darth Maul and the count should stay as action pieces but no Yoda vs the count or the emperor. The sand people slaughter + Jango Fett on Camino and chase to geonosis should stay...
Jah Jah needs to be removed so that he never exists
And battle droids also need to be replaced with something else they are just terrible...
Even if all that could be made to flow seamlessly as one movie It still won't solve the bad acting and wooden performances....
I want to believe that it can be improved, but I doubt what ever get's done to any of them I will ever like them as much as the OT.
I agree with most of what is above. All of E1 needs to go and 2 and 3 could be mined for material. To me some of the items that really need to be ported over are the birth of the rebellion (cut) scenes.
It's also nice to see someone else arguing for the complete elimination of Greivous, the weakest and worst character in the PT (yes, I think JJB is a better developed character than GG, they both need to go).
I would much rather see 4-5-6 as standalones and then maybe 4-5-6 with PT content as flashback. I know that the canon material doesn't use flashback but maybe this is the only route for redeeming what little good exists in the three movies.
Yup.....hate Grievous....more than Jar Jar.
And I would say that I am of a very similar opinion anytime I watch a little piece of the PT here or there....it just doesn't seem salvageable. BUT then I remember the things Ady has told me he wants to do.....and I really have to say......if you don't think it can be made into a better, even watchable, film....then you're not thinking creatively enough......Ady is literally going to destroy these films, rip them apart, and use their guts to make something that doesn't even resemble what we had before. You need to deconstruct it more.....tear it down to its bare elements. Jar Jar can be used, because he can be re-dubbed....made to sound less ridiculous, and given new purpose. The battle droids and Neimoidians made to sound less comical and more menacing. Anakin made to sound less dorky (at first) and less whiny (later). Performances can be changed with new voiceover work. With a bit of editing character's motivations can be made to fit with their OT counterparts' actions and motivations better. New effects work can be implemented to change the meaning of sequences and make them feel more like a SW film, and not just some random Sci-Fi (yes, the OT was fantasy....but the PT was pure Sci-Fi).
Jar Jar looks terrible even if you dub him over....I don't know what could be done to improve his appearance either....
It's not like I am not trying to think creative, I get it... But I am like also how can it be made to feel like the OT with the presence of Jar Jar even if he is dubbed... Or Grievous or Battledroids
This is where it all seems such a tremendous idea but in execution I want to believe it can happen but feel like it's impossible unless 3 films become 1.
Ruthlessly Cut to shreds deconstructed and then pieced together carefully to tell a story but not so much of an action story sci-fi but what character performances there are just piece them together keeping it not so lightsabre duel centric.
The only possible space battle is above Naboo without Anakin as pilot
That is a far cry from what the original trilogy was but it is the only way the rest has to be very much about politics and characters and there motivations Padme and Anakins relationship and Obiwan trying to find out what is going on as a focus and not about science fiction or fantasy at it's center.
Removing the stupid acrobatic jumping antics and bringing it down to earth if you like...Grounded in physics that are familiar to us across all aspects.
The plot should be center stage and the light sabre duels that do occur need to be toned down heavily and not be a main motivation.
It sounds like a boring star wars film I am talking about but with what there is I can not believe what ever is done to the PT will ever resemble the OT and certainly not 3 films running at 270mins
It needs to feel more boring less stupid and be completley geared towards the plot and run at about 90 - 120 mins
They will NEVER be as good as the OT.......not with the crap that Ady has to work with as his base ingredient.....but they CAN be made into decent films. They'll never be as character driven as the OT....they're always going to be more like documentaries about what happened to Anakin Skywalker.....simply because of the material that George shot (or didn't shoot) and the way he chose to tell his story. But they CAN be made to be entertaining. MUCH more so than they are now.
And Ady has said that his versions are going to come in much shorter than their current running times.....which makes sense what with all the crap that has to be cut out.
muddyknees2000 said:
They will NEVER be as good as the OT.......not with the crap that Ady has to work with as his base ingredient.....but they CAN be made into decent films. They'll never be as character driven as the OT....they're always going to be more like documentaries about what happened to Anakin Skywalker.....simply because of the material that George shot (or didn't shoot) and the way he chose to tell his story. But they CAN be made to be entertaining. MUCH more so than they are now.
And Ady has said that his versions are going to come in much shorter than their current running times.....which makes sense what with all the crap that has to be cut out.
You hit the nail on the head there...
Character driven story... Thats what I mean by 3 films in to 1 film
A character driven story only... Sci-fi nonsense out the window a few light sabre duels and that about wraps it up... Lucas did not need to tell this story across 3 films it's only because of the gap between the ROTJ and TPM that it implied and it was an obliged money spinner to do another trilogy.
And by the end of this he got the message about what people actually wanted.
The 3rd film was the real film by the second half and the other 2 were mostly filler
Ronster said:
Character driven story... Thats what I mean by 3 films in to 1 film
Doing that won't make it a character driven story.......there aren't really a lot of great ways to do that. Ady can make improvements, but the PT (even the PT:R) is always going to be a little weak in the character dept.....simply cutting it down will never solve the problems as they are too deeply embedded in the film.
Consider that in the OT we have Ben, who tells Luke that he was good friends with Anakin....and yet we sense more warmth between Anakin and Palps in one scene than we ever see between him and Obi. Ben.....who reminds Yoda of his own youthful recklessness and yet when we see him in TPM (and through the rest of the PT) he is the dorkiest, most careful and rule abiding Jedi there is.
Qui-Gonn acts nothing like a Jedi should......HE was more the Jedi that Obi should have been. Then you have Yoda who acts almost completely contrarily to his older self.
Anakin, when we first meet him, SHOULD have been a teen...thereby eliminating the creepy setting up of the future romance between him and Padme....they could have jumped right into it...or started off hating eachother ala Han & Leia...and slowly build up to it by film's end. This would also do away with the weird non aging of Padme in the decade between TPM and AOTC. Not to mention the fact that no 9 year old would ever leave his mother.....walking away, without looking back, and only realizing that leaving means..you know...LEAVING....only after he's fully packed, and 100 feet away...potentially leaving his mother behind, never to see her again.
The characters are all wrong, and no simple cutting of material is going to fix that.
yeah I guess you have a point... But whats Ady planning to do to make Obi-wan appear more reckless use footage from trainspotting?
only joking but yeah I totally get you, the set up is all wrong how to even begin fixing is perhaps futile and salvage what can be salvaged.
The films are pretty bad and to think I actually liked some bits while other bits are like complete rejects and non memorable or memorable in a bad way.
I am still of the opinion that there is a good film in there but not in 3 installments and certainly this is my main concern for PT:R.
The Base material and what is possible vs what is not in the confines of the actors and the story that is already there.
I guess I am just wishfully thinking that the PT:R will be condensed into 1 film leaving only 3 films on Ady and the teams plate after ESB is done.
I have a bad feeling about the PT:R
No, he wants to do the full 6 film saga.....and honestly if he manages to make them watchable/enjoyable it'll mean a whole lot more fun than just one solitary film would.
muddyknees2000 said:
No, he wants to do the full 6 film saga.....and honestly if he manages to make them watchable/enjoyable it'll mean a whole lot more fun than just one solitary film would.
I am playing about with it now... And searching for it.....The Holy Grail of making the PT really feel like the OT
Heres a couple of things.... Thoughts and ideas
Count Dooku has to die on geonosis in my opinion... Which means taking the duel out of ROTS with Anakin and Dooku (last moments only) and compositing some of that fight in the room on geonosis also meaning Yoda does not fight Dooku the deathstar plans get cut too and Anakin never looses his arm.
This also means he does not need to loose the arm because he is going to die (Anakin) at Lava slope on Mustafa
Also so far as the Darth Maul battle goes, I would also suggest when obi-wan falls to the lower level he uses a grappling hook footage from ROTS to get to the higher level where qui-gon fights Maul.... Obi-wan also slices Darth Maul in Half straight after he breaks Mauls part of his light sabre. Meaning he never falls down the hole and does the stupid acrobatic flip cheap trick and defeats him like a bad ass and not stupidly.
It also makes the statement "Don't try it, I have the High Ground" Valid in ROTS and not a complete contradiction
Huge Darth Maul Backflip and Jedi Jumping to follow also cut... Not so sure of what I am doing yet but it is slowly falling in to place in chunks
I have not got to the plot yet but I will post some findings later
Looking at the chase sequence from AOTC (Chasing the assassin) It might be good to use the sniper footage to destroy the droid so Obiwan never leaps through the window... This presents problems of it's own as a double of Obi-wan would need to be filmed getting to the sky car with Anakin... But the Over The Top rubbish needs to go somehow... This is best I can think of for now.
Apart from validating the "high ground" issue, I don't see how any of that fixes anything.....the action set pieces are not the problem really. A few lightsaber battles could be cut down in length.....but the real problems lay elsewhere.
muddyknees2000 said:
Apart from validating the "high ground" issue, I don't see how any of that fixes anything.....the action set pieces are not the problem really. A few lightsaber battles could be cut down in length.....but the real problems lay elsewhere.
Agreed, just fiddling about as an exercise.... But the action pieces are a major problem, most action scenes have stupid stuff in it like a cartoon that is a massive problem and Film breaker.
Some of the talk get's pretty boring in it and does not go anywhere, and they then re-iterate what they just said in the last scene in the next.
Some of the dialogue is very badly written... What I am doing is slightly making it better.... But I am only editing fast and in rough to flesh out my ideas.... And to see what is there.
The Lars Homestead is probably the worst scene there is so far In AOTC as C3-PO not only just being there but the lines are terrible and completely ruin any sadness or wonderment or, well any mood what so ever. But it's a totally needed scene so you can not just eliminate it.
I have not figured that bit out yet but I am making progress, in making it feel like it is more real.
That is the trick to the prequels... It don't feel real.... Instead of sucking you in it spits you out of any immersion in the movie at regular intervals unlike the OT... It is that immersion level that is missing for the most part
How is discussion of Ronster's edit part of the Revisited thread?
I think the discussion of other edits contributes quite a bit - Spence's RotJ is an amazing concept that has helped me hone my personal preferences on the opening of RotJ - I've brought it up in quite a few discussions, as well as discussed my own edits, in an attempt to influence what happens with Revisited.
Preferred Saga:
1/2: Hal9000
3: L8wrtr
4/5: Adywan
6-9: Hal9000