Great new Hairy Hen! It's good to know that these mixes can be made better and better. You also mentioned that you weren't sure how Belbucus fixed the flaws in the stereo mix ("I'm not nearly as experienced or capable as Belbucus when it comes to audio work, so left to my own devices I'd probably have been at a loss to correct these errors, but since he took care of them all in the analogue capture already"); FYI, he didn't use any special voodoo, he simply just spliced in the 85 mix in those places
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/GOUT-DVD-using-Faces-PCM-Sound/post/244706/#TopicPost244706
Also Harmy, did you see my post about a possible flaw in your edit of the 2004 DVD commentary? After the Death Star explodes there are two tracks playing at the same time and it makes it difficult to hear the voices.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
nos402 said:
Thanks so much for all the help and patience with people new to this stuff like me.
A couple of questions that I'm wondering about:
I successfully used MakeMKV to convert SW 2.1 to an MKV but when I play it, it defaults to subtitles on. Is this set within the DVD info itself or is this an anomaly?
I also don't know what all the different audio tracks are (5 say DD 2/0, 1 says DD 2/0 and doesn't seem to have any audio, and 1 says DD 1.0 English, and the default for me is DD 3/2+1 English). Is the default designated in the disc itself, as in the audio track Harmy designated as the default?
And the biggest problem, ESB and RotJ won't convert. They start converting but after a few seconds I get a popup that just says "Copy complete. 0 titles saved, 1 failed."
EDIT: MKVNixTools seems to be getting the job done on ESB and RotJ. I'll check them tomorrow.
If there is a more appropriate place for me to ask this stuff, just let me know and I'll take it there! Again, thanks for the hand holding and patience.
The subtitles don't default on the AVCHD version.
Unless you changed them, the audio tracks on 2.1 should be what Harmy described in this order (and yes, the 5.1 track is the default). The one with no sound was probably the music-only track during a point in the film where there was no music playing.
TRACK 1) 5.1 1977 70mm six track mix @ 640Kbps
TRACK 2) 2.0 1977 stereo mix @ 256Kbps
TRACK 3) 1.0 1977 mono mix @ 128Kbps
TRACK 4) 2.0 Isolated score @ 192Kbps (music only)
TRACK 5) 2.0 1993 LD Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps (silence filled with 1993 LD 2.0)
TRACK 6) 2.0 2004 DVD Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps
TRACK 7) 2.0 2004 starwars.com Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps
TRACK 8) 2.0 2011 BD Archival Interviews Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps
“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”
Mavimao said:
Also Harmy, did you see my post about a possible flaw in your edit of the 2004 DVD commentary? After the Death Star explodes there are two tracks playing at the same time and it makes it difficult to hear the voices.
Sorry, must have missed that post. I'll check it out and fix it for the BD.
Much thanks for that list. I was about to go diving through past pages to find it! I'll see if the MKVNixTools conversions default to subtitles on. Maybe it's just something weird with makeMKV. I couldn't find any options related to it.
I don't know about makeMKV but in MKVMerge (the part of MKV toolnix you should be using for this) each track can be selected and deselected as default. Also, for the MKV, you may want go here and download srt (text file) subtitles instead; they are much smaller files and should have better compatibility for MKV playback.
I found a few problems with the starwars.com commentary track - in a few places it wasn't properly synchronized, but that's not a big problem. I think the main problem which I had with the commentary was the shot when the pilots leave Yavin 4 to attack the Death Star - the guy in the commentary says that you're looking right now at a completely new shot from 1997 :-)
Just a quick note to add my Thanks to the great big huge pile from everyone else. Harmy, this project is truly a labour of love, which gets amplified every time someone watches the despecialized edition. Cheers for all your hard work!
Since you might do a 2.5 version, I'll post the one possible error I noticed. There appears to be a slight frame jump before Luke removes the restraining bolt from R2D2 (it may be right after he removes the bolt, as I can't remember exactly). It seemed to be most noticeable on the wall behind Luke. Sorry for not having the time code, but I can post that when I get home from work.
@Pittrek: Yeah, you're right :-)
Harmy said:
It is fairly seamless at least for the 2004 DVD and 2011 BD commentaries. The 2004 web commentary I got from Adywan's AVHCD, which was 24fps, so I had some trouble synchronizing it, even though I slowed it down what should have been the appropriate amount - but most of the time, you can't really hear the movie's audio in that one, so it's not too much of a problem that it's slightly out of sync. The other two should be in pretty perfect sync, because I attached them to the BD video in Premiere and then I used the video rather than the audio for sync reference. I did have to cut some stuff out but 99% of the time, it's just someone talking about Special Edition stuff that's not there anyway, as is the case with the Jabba scene. Sometimes I had to use the short periods where no one was commenting to move some section out of sync to allow for some SE changes to be cut out without loosing the commentary running over them. So all in all, I'd say the commentaries are in sync 95% of the time (and when they're not, it usually isn't really an issue) and 98% of the material is there (and the missing material is about the SE). There's still lots of SE references, so sometimes it's kind of funny to watch the film with those commentaries but it usually kind of works, because they say stuff like "this shot was redone with CGI in 97," simply reminding you that you're actually watching the good version :-)
@Infinity: I don't see anything in that shot.
Harmy said:
@Infinity: I don't see anything in that shot.
Ok. I'll double check when I get home, and if I still see it I will report back with the time code.
Sounds good :-)
Harmy, I've decided to hold off on V2.1 as I have 2.0 but I wanted to say thanks again for your dedication in getting this just right. I was curious if you have a rough timeframe for the blu-ray. I've heard about a month, but if I could hear from the man himself?? Again, thanks for all your hard work.
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. I now have the comparisons nearly finished and the tweaks to v2.5should be really minor, so they shouldn't take more than a day or two - I'm not getting into any big changes this time. I'm not sure how difficult the authoring itself will be as I have no experience with BD authoring. I didn't even figure out what software I'll use for it yet.
I hold out for the blu as well, since I want the best possible experience of this project! :)
About all these different audiotracks and the confusion that might occur; a detailed description on each track somewhere on the future bd would be quite nice :) Such as historical value, origins/source, how and by whom they were preserved and stuff like that.
“Stargazing wizards, stare into the night,
Hurricanes and blizzards, here comes the final fight”
Most software I've used for DVD projects with menus have sucked in one way or another. Limited background audio, limited menu templates, etc., but you eventually end up with something "close enough" to what you want. It's not really difficult, just tedious to mess with and get things as you might imagine them, or "close enough." In other words, it sucks, but isn't really hard to do once you find something that works.
Two other things - some (most) video software loves to use its own codecs, and may or may not "respect" the imported video (or audio, especially with so many tracks...); it may re-render it in the process. You may or may not be able to bypass that, or put the 'original' back in place without some further tweaks (see this thread for an example: http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-161144.html)
After it's done, the only way I can think of to keep it separate would be to create your own ISO from such a program, mount it, and then copy out from there. That way people can put it together on their own, or just have the main file.
A good list of such software http://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/authoring-bd-hd-dvd
Mavimao said:
he didn't use any special voodoo, he simply just spliced in the 85 mix in those places
Ah, that makes sense. I thought that must have been it, but couldn't remember exactly. The only thing that would stop it from being a seamless transition is that the '77 version has the channels panned inwards by a fair amount (presumably this was to reduce crosstalk in the surround, since upmixing processors were less advanced in those days), while the '85 has the full stereo width, but presumably he was able to match this by ear using the pan controls on each channel.
I just had a big test today, but now that it's done with (I already know I aced it!), I'll be getting started on this very soon. ;)
As far as lossless tracks for the Bluray are concerned, if there only ends up being enough disc space for the three theatricals, that will be fine, since the '85 and '93 sound very similar to the stereo and 70mm versions anyway for the most part. High bitrate AC3 tracks should be sufficient for them in that case.
Will the 1985 LD mix be on version 2.5?
Space Kaijuu said:
Will the 1985 LD mix be on version 2.5?
It seems the question now is whether it will be lossless or not given the space limitations of a single-layer Blu-ray.
Although Hairy Hen's reconstructions have become my default option for watching these movies now, I'm really hoping that all the English tracks could be lossless as I have fondness for each one of them for different reasons. But if it can't be done, it can't be done.
“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”
Hi Harmy,
Ok, I checked and the jump appears at 22:41, however it is not a frame jump. Just a small section of wall moves between luke and c3po, above the light. Below are two screen shots showing how this one section of wall suddenly moves up.
@Infinity: Weird. I checked the official blu-ray and it's there too. Probably some leftover from their digital cleanup?
Wow, and you actually noticed that? It took me like 10 times switching between the pictures before I saw what you meant :-D I should start a competition for the weirdest thing people notice about the 2004 transfer (I didn't check but it must be there in the 2004 transfer, because I can't imagine how I could have caused this to happen).
EDIT: You_Too beat me to it. But actually, when you know what to look for, there's a ton of stuff like this in the '04 transfer, which I think is more likely to be caused by stabilization than the cleanup - like they used some sort of dewarp stabilizing algorithm and it just went haywire sometimes.
Quite possibly. In hindsight I should have checked my blu-ray before posting. However, I have no interest in watching Star Wars be butchered, so when I notice a flaw I don't know if it's in the source material or not. A testament to the quality of work Harmy has done!
Yup, I noticed it while watching the movie the day you released 2.1 and made a note to let you know. I assumed it was a whole frame jump, until I checked a few minutes ago.
I find all the different audio tracks a bit confusing, to be honest. Not complaining about having them, just want to know what the differences are so that I can figure out which to use. Using the v2.0 MKV as a reference here:
There is three 1977 tracks, the difference seems to be the number of channels. Is there a difference between these three? I could understand why there could be a 5.1 and 2.0, but what is the mono track for? Is it different somehow?
What is the difference between the 1977 and 1993 tracks?
Why is does one of the "isolated score" tracks have a bunch of the sound effects and dialog, but only some of it, and the other doesn't?
I guess ultimately it boils down to, should I be listening to the 1977 or 1993 tracks?
They are all distinctly different mixes. The mono mix is very quite different from all the others.
I so want to a have a little featurette on the BD about all the different mixes, explaining how they're different and why they're all there but I don't have enough knowledge of the matter to do it by myself.