When/Why did you become an OT purist? — Page 10

Star Wars Purist said:

I became a purist when my friend got the shiny new silver box DVD version of the Star Wars Trilogy I grew up to love (I grew up on the '95 Faces VHS set mind you) and he told me I had to get it since DVD was so much better and clearer. etc. I got the set for Christmas 2004. The box looked so cool and I thought this was going to be the greatest movie going experience of a lifetime...higher definition Star Wars...movies I hadn't even seen in a few years...on the big screen. I watched the original film...it seemed okay, mostly, at first although I didn't really care for the Mos Eisley scene or when Han killed "that alien". It was weird...because I remembered liking these scenes as a little kid. Huh. I didn't know what to think. Maybe I was just growing up.  Later the next night, I got impatient and wanted to see "The ghost of Luke's father" at the end of Return of the Jedi (because I had forgotten what he liked like)...I watched it...and...

...He wasn't Hayden Christensen. He couldn't have been more than a little kid in 1983. And...and I remembered...the ghost was old, regal, and kindly. Not the star of the as of yet un made 3rd prequel. 

...The music wasn't the same. It wasn't so happy. And...it didn't just end with the core guys all together...it ended with all these planets some prequel stuff. 

I went on the Internet to look this up...I first thought the changes were only to ROTJ. So I avoided the DVD of that. 

Then a year later I read more about all the changes. 

I found my 95 VHS set and watched them and I loved the Mos Eisley seen again and didn't groan because of the horrible CGI Jabba or the cgi jar jar rats or the dewback obscuring the iconic mind trick scene. I forgot how much I loved it. 

And when I was done...

...I saw Sebastian Shaw smiling at me, as it should be. 

I never went back to the SEs...and I NEVER will. 

This is a really good post that better approximates what its like for casual fans. Re-read this.

Harmy said:

I am however a purist in that I think that any official release of an unaltered version should be really absolutely unaltered beyond some basic cleanup. I actually hate the idea of a version that wouldn't have all the most obvious changes but have the "invisible" fixes such as recompositing or removing wires etc. An official release like that to me would be more offensive than an obvious Special Edition, unless again it would have the original original alongside it.

This goes for other films as well; it bothers me that in the BD of Aliens they removed the hole in the ground where Bishop's real body is hiding or that they removed the cobra reflection from the Raiders Blu Ray. It doesn't bother me to a point where it would taint my enjoyment of the movie because they are small changes but it does bother me.

Couldn't agree with you more. It really bothered me when word got out that there'd been changes made to Aliens and I saw that screenshot comparison. Pretty disappointing considering James Cameron's comments about finding the changes made to Star Wars "disturbing" and even saying that the version of his own movie Avatar that won all the oscars should be considered the definitive version, not the extended cuts.

To then turn around and pull a modern digital fix while still calling these the versions from 1986/1991 felt disingenuous. Plus, as people have mentioned in forums such as the one you linked to, that wasn't the only fix they made. They blatantly re-ordered the shots in that one scene (no, it didn't make sense, but that's how it was originally) and I remember reading something about a matte shot that's been digitally fixed, but I haven't seen a screenshot comparison.

What I thought was kinda dumb about the bishop fix was that it's not like we don't already know that bishop is an imaginary character played by Lance Henricksen. He obviously didn't actually get torn in two (now that would've been dedication!). So, when you start fixing visible stuff like that, stuff that's flashing by in an instant anyway, you're going down a slippery slope in my opinion.

Evil Dead, interestingly enough, hit blu-ray right around the same time, and also had similar digital fixes, also at its director's behest. This kinda angered me even more than the fixes made to Aliens. To digitally fix Evil Dead is to take away part of the charm of that movie, imo.

But, like you said, it's not until we're seeing a version that's vastly different editorially (like an extended or director's cut) or blatantly different content-wise (like the SE's of Star Wars) that we actually consider it a different version of the movie. Modern day audiences who don't know a movie like its die-hard fans will never realize they're watching an altered version. Hell, it bothers me that Disney got rid of the original cgi Disney logo and fanfare for the Toy Story blu-ray. Once again, it's kinda ruining the "charm" of it all, not for the entire movie, mind you, but it now feels like the movie is starting several seconds too late.

I wish filmmakers like Cameron and Raimi (and corporations like Disney) would just leave well enough alone, but what are you gonna do.

I'll share my story about when/why I became an OT purist later, just had to get my thoughts out there on this.

Wonder what the odds are on WILLOW making it through unchanged. It's funny how perception and promotion of farting around with these movies has changed in a few short years, in 1997 the changes were heavily promoted, now it's like hey the movie was always like this. (Culminating in 2004 with THX1138, still the heavyweight champ of abusing the word "restoration")

I wouldn’t say I’m a purist in the classic sense, I have been through all sort of permutations of what a Star Wars fan can be from the release of the original movie back in the 70’s, right through to hating the PT and finally accepting the PT and seeing something in them that I had never noticed upon release, to a fan of all the movies and (some) EU. Yes, I’m one of those people. However, I do believe that fans should have access to all the permutations of the Star Wars movies from its beginnings, to what it has now become and not be restricted to just ‘one true version’.  

The thing is, when I want to watch a Star Wars movie, I want to watch them the way I want to watch them, be it through the eyes of me as a 4 year old, where there was just the original movie (I can easily jump on and ignore the Anakin/Vader thing), or watch the OT as I watched them for years prior to the SE’s , or watch the SE’s, or the 6 films back to back as one continuous saga. I’m not bound by any one definitive way of watching these films, but GL has taken this option away and I believe that this lack of foresight has actually made the GFFA a much smaller place than it should be and has made the artistry that is the movies a much narrower and restrictive experience.

On a personal  note, I do think that the SE’s are junk. The pacing is all wrong, the colours are off (I loved the blues and firey reds and orange colours in TESB for example because it works in foreshadowing red and blue light sabre blades crossing at the end of the film) and the ‘improvements’ are really distracting, but sometimes I watch them anyway, just because I can. Ironically I believe that watching the OOT works better in my mind, following the PT because it opens up the cinematic scope of this vibrant 36 year old movie making/watching experience.  

Thank you Harmy.

Simple.  As soon as it became evident that the 97 "Special Editions" were no longer that (that being what we assumed a little something done for the 20 year anniversary), and in George's mind now the definitive editions, making the original theatrical releases obsolete, I became a purist.

As far as I'm concerned, let a director release a zillion versions of their movies. But don't ever sit there and say this new version replaces the original film.

Granted there are examples of later cuts being a better, i.e. Alexander. Took 3 goes, but Oliver Stone fixed that failure as much as he could in the final cut. The theatrical and director's cuts were awful.

However, you don't see Oliver on a war path to stop the first two vrsions from being purchased or screened.

I'm not an OT purist and I think the idea is foolish, especially if you know the history of the production of the first three films.

I just want film history to be preserved for future generations. When people walked into to see Star Wars in 1977, they didn't watch the Special Edition. That's not the film that started it all.

I didn't care if George wanted to tweak his films. They're his movies. I just wanted him to care about preserving film history.

Would this forum even exist if George had followed Spielberg's lead and released both the original theatrical trilogy and special editions at the same time? (And I'm talking about good releases, not the GOUT.)

But alas all of this discussion is pointless and this very forum has proven that George was right when he wanted to destroy his own history. The most popular topic on this site is about a fan project that is nothing more than another "special edition." It's tampering with film history far exceeds the damage done by Lucas.

Seriously, a wise man once said, "you'll strain at a fly in you swallow a camel." So criticize the prequel films all you want, but most of you are just as bad as the guy who created those cinematic disasters.

Irwin Allen?

Crygor64 said:

But alas all of this discussion is pointless and this very forum has proven that George was right when he wanted to destroy his own history. The most popular topic on this site is about a fan project that is nothing more than another "special edition." It's tampering with film history far exceeds the damage done by Lucas.

Seriously, a wise man once said, "you'll strain at a fly in you swallow a camel." So criticize the prequel films all you want, but most of you are just as bad as the guy who created those cinematic disasters.

Oh yeah, because a niche of rabid film enthusiasts (who slaver over every recreation and preservation produced) appreciate the insane amount of work and dedication going into WHAT WE ALL KNOW is basically another Special Edition (but thanks for mentioning it, we appreciate your wisdom) and marvel that an amateur can do better than Lucas ever attemptedis really damaging film history with our DVD-Rs and our message board posts, as opposed to, you know, the man who refuses to let Congress preserve his films as culturally significant. 

You strike me as kind of a tookus, and I don't just mean because you said "but alas."

I was not an OT purist at first. I actually saw the films for the first time when the Special Edition was released in theaters, I was around 7 at the time and I loved it. I remember I had a friend who had the THX VHS and I used to borrow those all the time. I got the Special Edition VHS set that Christmas and for years those used to be the way I watched the films. However even back then there was something I always appreciated about the old releases.

Flash forward to 2004 when the DVD's came out. I was pumped beyond belief. Back then I was still into the prequels (that changed dramatically over the years) and the Special Edition changes were still unobtrusive for me. I got the DVD's and immediately I knew that something was wrong. I was only 14 at the time so I had yet to know about the technical hiccups like the crushed blacks, the color correction, the inconsistency with the lightsaber colors but there was still something off about it. So I just sighed and accepted that these were the versions I was going to watch whether I liked it or not.

2006 rolled around and I heard about the GOUT release. I snagged those Day 1 and I dug it. I didn't understand what people were complaining about the non-anamorphic transfer. I had a 4:3 TV back then so I was unaware of the shortcomings of this release. Two years later, I got an HDTV and popped them in again on my PS3 and I finally realized what was wrong. For me that was the straw that broke the camel's back. That combined with Lucas' comments regarding his disdain for the originals is what made me become an OT purist.

I lurked around the site every now and then over the years but when I found out about fan projects like Harmy's Despecialized Edition or the Star Wars Begins documentary, it finally convinced me to join the forums and I'm glad for that. Now I have my copies of the original versions in high quality that I can show to anyone who's unfamiliar with Star Wars without having to worry about explaining why Anakin's ghost at the end of Jedi looks inexplicably younger.

SilverWook said:

Crygor64 said:

I'm not an OT purist and I think the idea is foolish, especially if you know the history of the production of the first three films.

I just want film history to be preserved for future generations. When people walked into to see Star Wars in 1977, they didn't watch the Special Edition. That's not the film that started it all.

I didn't care if George wanted to tweak his films. They're his movies. I just wanted him to care about preserving film history.

Would this forum even exist if George had followed Spielberg's lead and released both the original theatrical trilogy and special editions at the same time? (And I'm talking about good releases, not the GOUT.)

But alas all of this discussion is pointless and this very forum has proven that George was right when he wanted to destroy his own history. The most popular topic on this site is about a fan project that is nothing more than another "special edition." It's tampering with film history far exceeds the damage done by Lucas.

Seriously, a wise man once said, "you'll strain at a fly in you swallow a camel." So criticize the prequel films all you want, but most of you are just as bad as the guy who created those cinematic disasters.

 

 

 

With all due respect, a fanedit never pretends to be something it's not, the originals. How could they possibly be worse than what Lucas has done to them? Whether you like them or not, I fail to see how they harm film history in any way.

Lucasfilm has been playing a shell game with the post 1997 versions, banking on people forgetting the originals. What was done with THX 1138 is even worse in some respects. The changes were never hyped or credited, and masquerades as a "director's cut" any fan worth his salt knows Lucas got to do in 1978.

Nobody on this site took the original negatives physically apart.

Nobody on this site squelches most attempts at a proper theatrical screening of the good prints that survive.

Nobody on this site just flushed millions on 3D conversions that aren't coming out any time soon, (if at all), while telling the fans who still remember the originals they are too expensive to restore.

I'm sorry Wook, but I must vehemently disagree.

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His post was due no respect. ;-)

Tyrphanax said:

CP3S said:

EDIT: "You're lucky you don't taste very good." I think that line was the seed of my lack of acceptance of the SE. It has always been one of my favorite lines, and I feel like the way Luke says it showed a lot of his affection for Artoo. Kind of like a parent scolding a little kid who just ran out into the street and almost got hit by a car, but unable to hide the love and relief in their voice. I noticed it was missing the first time I saw TESB SE in the theater, and remember mentioning it to my dad and cousin on the way out. Didn't feel right without it. One of the first changes I made to my despecialized VCD version of Empire was to splice it back in.

This is a good point.

Having grown up with the SEs, I had never heard that line until I started getting into preservations. When I heard it, I immediately loved it and wondered why they'd ever take it out of the film.

Because George missed that day in art school when they taught the old line by Salvador Dali: "An artist always knows when to stop."

When did I become an OT purist? When I watched the PT. 

Tyrphanax said:

Having grown up with the SEs, I had never heard that line until I started getting into preservations. When I heard it, I immediately loved it and wondered why they'd ever take it out of the film.

I'm pretty sure it may have already been a variant among certain pre-SE versions of Empire. Perhaps from the 70mm? Others here know far better than me. From what I've read, that alternative line was used simply because it was deemed to be of higher quality than the other, and that the nobody even realized it was completely different from the one in the original film until after it was released and fans noticed it. A perfect example of how much love and care these films have received over the years.

Apparently, the line heard in the SE is straight from the script, and the one in the theatrical Mark Hamil came up with himself (much like Harrison Ford's "I know"), and they liked it so they used it.