Preserving DTS LaserDisc tracks, specifically Jurassic Park — Page 6

Just a comment to say I listened to the Jurassic Park DTS mix over the weekend - via 3 AVCHD encoded dvd-rs on my blu ray player decoding and feeding pcm over hdmi to a decent Yamaha amp driving Monitor Audio RS1 speakers - no sub unfortunately.

Having seen the film on original release, vhs and tv I don't have a modern home video frame of reference. But I can say that it sounded very impressive. Even at a fair bit lower than reference level, the velociraptor snort during the opening sequence of the film had the impact that I remember from the cinema. Which is certainly not present on the vhs or tv showings..! Likewise the rain and other sound effects had a vividness and clarity in the mix that showed you were listening to something a bit different.

Have to give thanks to borisanddoris and ElDonante for the archiving and Jetrell Fo for the direction on where to get it. Thanks guys.

Jetrell Fo said:

I went with a 720p AVCHD version of Bluray for home viewing....

http://www.noblemd.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=13

I set the format of the 720p to 23.976 and I set the audio delay @ -140ms...this was of course for the DTSHD track.  I also set the language to English and set the flag to yes.  Let's MKverge run without error codes regarding this.  

Jettrell why did you do this? I didn't set any audio delay on my mux (used tsMuxer) and it seems fine...?

I concur re Die Hard, I remember as I saw the movie twice on opening week, that when the building explodes when McLane drops the chair in the elevator, the rumble was DEEP, and that was in a THX theater.

I never did find the same feeling on either LD or DVD or BR, thought LD mixes were close.

Would fancy a restoration of this original theatrical mix ;)

Hello All,

I feel really bad about not getting back to the group earlier, but I had a minor technical snag. The suggested software and instructions are perfect. Using TSmuxer I was able to keep the new 7.1 DTS-MA mix, but placed the original 5.1 DTS-MA mix as track #1. Everything seemed to have worked great, but my technical snag occurred about 52 minutes into the feature where my original disc has a minor nick. This causes a 3 to 4 second hiccup during playback, and when ripping the disc, this hiccup/defect caused the video to go out of sync with the patched in audio by roughly 4 seconds. But up to my bad spot on the disc, I was able to listen to both soundtracks in sync with a high quality bluray image, and was able to easily switch between the two.

It was interesting to hear the differences just on the opening notes after the Universal logo. The notes ring far deeper in the original 5.1 mix than they do in the remix. There were a few times when music was slightly lower on the remix when compared to the original. Some of the panning is different as well. One that comes to mind is in the opening sequence with the velociraptor, the head of the team says something like "tasers to full intensity" or something like that. The camera pans while he is saying this line, and his voice tracks him and pans to hard left. In the new 7.1 remix, his voice still pans, but is no longer hard left and can also be heard in the center channel. The helicopter landing at the dig site also has a little more ooomph in the original mix as well. In the original mix, more of the music resides in the three front channels and has a little more heft in the LFE channel. I have a 7.1 discrete setup and played the original 5.1 track as DTS-ES to obtain rear channels. In this mode when comparing the two mixes, I didn't feel like the 7.1 remix was major step up, and the extra "discrete" channels didn't seem to have any standout 7.1 moments. In other forums, I have read the remix has some foley effects changed in a few spots as well. If true, it wouldn't surprise me.

Were there times when I preferred the 7.1 remix? I have to admit the "sonic ping" used to see dino bones at the dig site sounded deeper and louder in the new mix. The same goes for the brontosaurus stomp on the ground after it was standing on its hind legs. The 7.1 remix in that case just went a tad lower.

So which mix, based on the 52 minutes of comparisons, do I prefer? Without hesitation, the original DTS mix. Audio was a very important part in the planning of Jurassic Park, so a LOT of time was spent on that mix for its premiere release. I don't know how much time was spent on the remix, but you can be sure Spielberg wasn't sitting through that session (OK ..'maybe' he stopped in once and said "sounds good!"), nor would Universal allocate the same amount of hours for an audio remix. The original mix was also the premiere of the DTS theatrical sound system, and they really wanted to showcase this. To me, that is audio history that should be preserved. I want to hear what I and everyone else heard in DTS theaters in 1993. And on that note I tip my hat and thank those who made this original track possible. Job well done!!!!

borisanddoris said:

Thanks again to everyone who helped me and all of us realize this dream.  I'm curious to see if Universal uses the original 5.1 or a remix for the upcoming 3D re-release.  One thing is for sure: the trailer's 2D image looks to have improved vastly over the Blu-ray video master.  With any luck, we'll get a nice, new Blu-ray as well!

I'd assume they'd continue to use the remix. I don't think that they'll make a new encode for the 2D BD video master (to save costs), but they'll probably issue it on a nice 3D BD. If that happens, one would have to extract the 2D image from the 3D BD for a high quality Jurassic Park. I'm just speculating, of course; this is what happened to Beauty and the Beast. Time will tell.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

borisanddoris said:

Thanks again to everyone who helped me and all of us realize this dream.  I'm curious to see if Universal uses the original 5.1 or a remix for the upcoming 3D re-release.  One thing is for sure: the trailer's 2D image looks to have improved vastly over the Blu-ray video master.  With any luck, we'll get a nice, new Blu-ray as well!

I'd assume they'd continue to use the remix. I don't think that they'll make a new encode for the 2D BD video master (to save costs), but they'll probably issue it on a nice 3D BD. If that happens, one would have to extract the 2D image from the 3D BD for a high quality Jurassic Park. I'm just speculating, of course; this is what happened to Beauty and the Beast. Time will tell.

borisanddoris said:

Thanks GregK!  Jurassic Park is my favorite film.  Having owned many different versions of it on video, I've become very familiar with the mix.  When I first heard the 7.1, I knew it was wrong.  Not bad, just wrong.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me and all of us realize this dream.  I'm curious to see if Universal uses the original 5.1 or a remix for the upcoming 3D re-release.  One thing is for sure: the trailer's 2D image looks to have improved vastly over the Blu-ray video master.  With any luck, we'll get a nice, new Blu-ray as well!  

Looking forward to 20 years of Jurassic Park!  Life will find a way...

 

trp said:

 

Jetrell Fo said:

I went with a 720p AVCHD version of Bluray for home viewing....

http://www.noblemd.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=13

I set the format of the 720p to 23.976 and I set the audio delay @ -140ms...this was of course for the DTSHD track.  I also set the language to English and set the flag to yes.  Let's MKverge run without error codes regarding this.  

Jettrell why did you do this? I didn't set any audio delay on my mux (used tsMuxer) and it seems fine...?

I did this because I had a bit of a sync issue.  Next time I'll try using tsMuxer.

As for Jurassic Park II & III ......... I HAVE the DTS cinema audio for them.  I also have the NTSC Japan set release with DTS but it's only half range, not full range.  I have the audio from them ripped to my laptop.

If there are to be future projects concerning these movies I'm ready to contribute what I have.  I am still trying to learn how to crop the audio properly so I can get all the reels put together without issue.

Thanks for the thanks too.  It was Borisanddoris and ElDonante who deserve the BULK of the credit for starting this trend.  THEY were the ones that inspired me to move forward with other DTS audio.

As Boris said earlier ...... Life will find a way .... ;)

_,,,^..^,,,_ said: "Did you know that laserdisc DTS soundtracks are 6ch 44.1KHz 20bit 1,2Mbps ?" Well, today I tested a lot with a DTS laserdisc - guess which title? - and I didn't manage to save more than few seconds of DTS sound using VirtualDub... at least, I discovered that using an audio recorder - something simple like Windows Sound Recorder - is it possibile to record a laserdisc DTS sound directly from the S/PDIF input... Capturing a DTS soundtrack along with its video counterpart could be better, to allow cutting (and/or inserting) frames, together with audio... it would be a LOT more difficult to mux only the LD DTS soundtrack with a digital video (from DVD or BD) and then find where to cut or how to align properly audio with video... What are your experiences about capturing video and DTS audio from a laserdisc? Any feedback is welcome, as the usual little voice popped into my mind whispering "... you have a BUNCH of Jurassic Park laserdiscs... NTSC, PAL, DTS, Dolby Surround, CAV, CLV, Box Sets, english & italian, a making of... and don't forget those Lost World discs too... why don't you start a new Jurassic Park 1+2 DTS [ruLes] project?!?" (^^,)

It would be nice to get the DTS laserdisc audio to have another soundtrack to compare to with others on a BD.

Another update on the Jurassic Park re-issue. This quote is from the Home Theater Forum:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/327067/ushe-announcement-jurassic-park-3d-blu-ray-combo#post_4031484

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I emailed Universal to see if the 2D disc is getting the new transfer as well and it's not good news i'm afraid.

This is what they said:

Thank you for contacting us.

The 2D Blu-ray and DVD releases to be included is our upcoming "Jurassic Park" 3D package will use the master that was created for the Jurassic Park Ultimate Trilogy in 2011.

We appreciate your interest and hope that you will continue to enjoy our releases.

SIncerely,

Consumer Relations
UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOME ENTERTAINMENT
=========================

Based on this report, for those who want the remastered version, the 2D version (for those who want the movie in 2-D) will need to be obtained from the 3D Bluray. If playback on 2D gear is restricted, that will be able to be bypassed with certain software.

If anyone wants some nice custom artwork for the upcoming 3D Bluray release:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2gwJXxfnZgQ/URvq900yx_I/AAAAAAAAI94/VP5ve-O--Rs/s1600/Jurassic_Park_3D_Exclusive_Poster_IMAX_Cine_1.jpg