[OUT - ruLes] Original Unaltered Trilogy restored using Laserdisc editions - A New Hope (Released) — Page 2

Thanks.

For the video, it seems I've reached a good compromise; surely it is not HD, but I like it way most than GOUT... I'll convert the upscaled output @1280x544/25p to obtain an AVC coded file @1280x720 anamorphic, with a bitrate of 7000kbps, obtaining a good video quality, to make an AVCHD that fits inside a dual layer DVD.

So, let's start the other job, audio.

I captured all the laserdisc digital tracks in various language (english, french, german, spanish - this one is unique as the initial crawl is narrated... I think no other version is like that) directly via SPDIF optical cable, stereo Dolby Surround PCM @1441kbps 44.1khz. For the italian, as there is no laserdisc (sigh!) I captured the audio from the HiFi VHS passing the input through my MD deck, which have a very good A/D converter, to the PC via the usual optical cable, at the same quality used for the laserdiscs.

I must admit my VHS sleeped on a shelf for almost 15 years, and I watched them (at the time) just two or three times, so I was sure the quality were pristine, but that was not the case... the video has severe dropouts (but who cares) which afflict sometimes the audio - not so badly, but few times there are some pop&click. I tried some freeware audio declicker, but nothing works well. I decided to use it anyway, as it seems that this track is better than the GOUT PAL AC3 stereo @192kbps. As soon as I'll find a better copy of another VHS, I'll capture again and change that track alone.

Well, after that, I used Foobar2000 and avisynth's SoundOut to convert the tracks, first from stereo Dolby Surround PCM 44.1khz to 6 tracks PCM 44.1khz, using a fantastic Foobar plugin, FreeSurround, that works very well; then from that 6 tracks I used SoundOut to convert to AC3 5.1 @448kbps 48khz. I haven't used AfterGUI because it didn't convert from 44.1 to 48 khz (or at least I haven't found the way to do it); "WAV to AC3 encoder" do it, but the result is a completely mess of noise... at the end, the results are good using my method. If someone knows how to do it in a single passage, using a better Dolby Surround encoder, please let me know.

Next move will be to convert the video from 25p to 23.967p - this is really easy, but the problem will (maybe) audio... yes, because there is some tracks which has the right pitch, other are simply speeded up at +4% as usual PAL audio tracks... I must find out which one has the right speed, which has the wrong speed, and then convert them - I'd like to use avisynth and SoundOut plugin, but I'm not sure how to do it.

Is there anybody out there who knows very well the SW soundtrack, and want to listen so brief extract to understand which tracks has the right speed?

Another thing to check out is if "pyramid" LD soundtrack is the same of THX PAL laserdiscs, or different, and if it is the same, which one has the better quality.

Last things are the subtitles: still not haven't found the forced ones nor the complete ones; I could extract them from my PAL DVD (english, italian, french) but I need spanish and german ones... can't locate C3PIO subs...

For AVCHD menu, I want to do it myself, but I don't know if my skills will help me to do it...

Hope to release at least one version, multi language, right as a Xmas gift, but without subtitles I'm stuck...

Woaw, it seems like you're doing an incredible job, sir! I've seen the screenshots and the video files... i definitely can't wait to see the final version! The fact you are getting other languages is just awesome! I'm searching for the French audio with an higher bitrate than 192 Kbps for a long time. 

Thanks dude! 

I'm not converting simple stereo files, but Dolby Surround encoded stereo files... I could also convert them to stereo AC3, but as AC3 is not perfect as someone still say ("don't worry, a simple stereo track, Dolby Surround encoded, at 192kbps will be THE SAME as the PCM tracks..." - sure... as I am Napoleon the Emperor, and I'm NOT him!) so I prefer a better 5.1 AC3 @448kbps than a simpler stereo @192kbps... maybe I'm mad, but I leave this kind of track just for commentary. I want to add that, if someone will be interested in my project (apart me, of course) maybe I'll release a BD-25 version with all the PCM tracks (just re-encoded at 48khz to be standard), stereo 16bit... only those ones weight about 6GB (including the italian track too).

I have eac3to, but maybe I'm too lazy to work with it... ;-)

I found the subtitles I needed; I'm testing the muxing of all the audio tracks and subtitles with TSmuxer, using the first test version I did... and I confess I'm enjoing to be a "producer" ;-)

If it works well, I'll start the encoding soon - it will take more than two days with my poor old computer...

The .m2ts file works perfectly; all the five tracks are there and working - apart subtitles that don't show up...

I must test better tomorrow.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

I'm not converting simple stereo files, but Dolby Surround encoded stereo files... I could also convert them to stereo AC3, but as AC3 is not perfect as someone still say ("don't worry, a simple stereo track, Dolby Surround encoded, at 192kbps will be THE SAME as the PCM tracks..." - sure... as I am Napoleon the Emperor, and I'm NOT him!) so I prefer a better 5.1 AC3 @448kbps than a simpler stereo @192kbps... 

 If you're interested, i can convert any uncompressed WAV stereo file to AC3 with a bitrate of 640kbps  48kHz - 16bit.  

It's the maximum bitrate that AC3 codec can handle.

But i can convert it to 224, 384, or 448kbps if you prefer.

CapableMetal, don't worry, I didn't take it as a negative critic, but a comment about the sound you have the right to do.

I also thought to compress the tracks at 640kbps, but I know there are few DVD players that "don't like" AC3 tracks at that bitrate... maybe the next time I'll convert them so, but for the moment, 448kbps is the right compromise - in a dual layer DVD, thay take about 1.8GB, and leave just the empty space for a decent video compression for AVCHD...

For the DVD, I don't know if I must use the tracks as they are, or use a lower bitrate to leave more space for the MPEG2 video - but maybe compressing at 7400kbps, the quality of MPEG2 @ 720x432 will be the same than I used for the AVC @1280x544, if not better, don't you think?

@ilovewaterslides: thanks for the offer, but I'll make them myself soon.

still "only" 23 hours of compression... after that, I must find the way to make the subtitles work!

I viewed briefly the test video done yesterday, and - as I suspected - some dropouts are still present... next version, I'll capture any laserdisc two more times with different laserdisc players (I have only the benefit of choice); then use the TOOT to eliminate dropouts... maybe as I have four captures, I could do this right now: stating that a,b,c,d are the four aligned captures, I could TOOT a,b,c, then TOOT b,c,d, then TOOT a,b,d, THEN a,c,d, and use them as the four starting point for median and average instead the pure captures...

For the record: at the beginning of the capturing phase, I discovered a frightning thing: the capture, any capture, ALWAYS had 4 frames lost, everytime... I ask myself why not 3, or 5, or any other number, but always 4... I started the captures with the PC only dedicated to VirtualDub in capture mode, to not disturb the process. But, at least I have to wait for a CAV side 30 minutes, so what? I switch to TV (I use my hidef 55' as monitor too) and after, say, 15 or 20 minutes, I switch back to PC to see if all goes well, and here you are the 4 lost frames... everytime...

I then discovered that the switching from TV to PC (and not viceversa) made the PC to "forgot" those 4 frames, just in the moment I changed the source... I repeated that action, and so it lost 8 frames, 12 frames etc... it seems there is something with the HDMI, and I'm sure is a driver problem, as before the complete reset of my computer, the problem was not there... at the end, I started the capture "blind", just hit the F5 when the laserdisc side starts, and hit ESC when the side ends, and that way no missing frames!!! It makes me crazy for a whole week to find where the problem was...

Back to dropouts, as laserdisc is prone to them, when I realigned all the captures, I use an avisynth script to zoom near the borders to find better the alignement, and when zoomed, the video dropouts are more evident. There seems there are no missing frames, but I will have nightmares for years if I have to check all the four captures, frame by frame... something like 720,000 frames, more or less... (_O o)

I haven't used yet TOOT just because using the captures from four different sources - in theory identical, but they are not, from the missing frames (in the source, due to side changes mainly) to the fact the luma and chroma are different - the TOOT doesn't work well. Where it works very well, is when using the captures of same disc taken with different players, or different discs (same catalog number of course) with same player, or better different discs on different players!

So, to improve a bit the video quality, next step will be to use TOOT, different discs (where available, like french and spanish discs) and different players(I just used (one of my three) Pioneer CLD-D925, I think to use the next time the industrial LD-V4300D, mainly for its direct motor and the lack of any digital gadget, and the Pioneer CLD-600, also noted for its simple but clean video path, digital free) to eliminate those annoying drop-outs (basically, to someone who can't figure out what we are talking about, drop-out are small errors present in the image, usually as black lines few pixels long, but could be also colored).

I'll do it if there is some interest in my project, as it seems nowadays everyone hate laserdisc capture and think they are crap; but as I stated in my first post, the mission of this project is to provide a good alternative to GOUT, mainly (almost) DVNR and smear free, using only analog source - a real and unusual challenge - and I think I accomplished the task - you'll be the judges.

At the end, do you like the name of the project, or should I change it? If you like it, the next one, 1997 SE, will be named "SET ruLes (Special Edition Trilogy restored using Laserdisc editions)" - after that, maybe there will be also "TPM ruLes". If you don't like it, the alternative I will use will be "LOUT (Laserdisc Original Unaltered Trilogy)" and "LOSE (Laserdisc Original Special Edition)".

To whom it may concern: the conversion is going on, it's at 67% now; tomorrow morning will be finished; after I'll figured out how to show subtitles (forced and not, in all the same languages as the audio tracks - thanks 3PIO!) using TSmuxer, and after I have synchronized them, I'll release the first complete version.

It will be a .m2ts file, video 720p 25fps 16:9 @7400kpbs; five audio tracks (english, french, german, spanish, italian) AC3 5.1 @448kbps; five subtitles forced + five full.

PM me if you are interested - maybe there are three or four fans here who are waiting for this first release! (^-^)

***

HELP NEEDED!

The main goal of the project is to obtain a 23.976fps version - the most similar to theatrical release, but for that I NEED someone who knows perfectly the SW soundtrack and who help me. How? Just listening some audio clips from the different PAL tracks (could be only music, just tell me which part is needed) to determine if that track has the right pitch or not!

If you're interested, when I was playing with the speeder shot a while back this was the result (AVC video only in MP4): http://www.sendspace.com/file/2gvxqv

Screenshot:

Yours:

HELP NEEDED!

The main goal of the project is to obtain a 23.976fps version - the most similar to theatrical release, but for that I NEED someone who knows perfectly the SW soundtrack and who help me. How? Just listening some audio clips from the different PAL tracks (could be only music, just tell me which part is needed) to determine if that track has the right pitch or not!

Alright, i can do that pretty easily. I PM'd you.

@Moth3r: good job, the screenshots looks really similar; mine is more sharpened... a bit TOO sharpened... infact, today, after the conversion was finished, I briefly checked some scenes and decided I used too much sharpening, in the wrong way... so, after adjusting the avisynth script, now the new conversion is on its way... meanwhile, I'll try to let the subtitles work...

@ilovewaterslides: thanks for the help! Please post here which soundtracks bits you want to hear to determine if the speed is right or not, and also the method you will use to convert the right pitched tracks and the wrong ones from 25p to 23.976p - if possible using avisynth with soundout and/or sox plugins. So if someone else would hear them too, I'll receive a second medical opinion... (^_^)

You're welcome!

About the soundtracks bits, i'd like to hear the main titles, to me it's the best part to determinate if the pitch is the right one or not. 

I'll use my edit software "Vegas Pro" and my NTSC GOUT audio to make sure that your 25fps audio will run exactly at 23,976fps. This software is amazingly precise for this kind of work, you can trust me i've done that tons of times before, so i can give it a try.

My software can also stretch the soundtrack without changing the pitch, so if one of your soundtrack is right pitched i won't have any problem either.

Andrea: Do you own any of the PAL P&S LDs?

Where are the burn marks in the corridor of the Tantive IV? They're in all of the PAL THX preservations created by members of this forum, but I can't see them in the YouTube clip you posted.

I'm referring to these: http://fd.noneinc.com/Glitch/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors.html

Anthony,

sorry, I have not the PAL P&S LDs... if only I could get them, I think it will be possible to improve the resolution of the central part of the image of letterbox LD captures!

About the Tantive Corridor: as written in the post #13, the first glitch is still visible, while the second is erased, but I didn't fix it manually... the script I used found the way to erase only the second one.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Anthony,

sorry, I have not the PAL P&S LDs... if only I could get them, I think it will be possible to improve the resolution of the central part of the image of letterbox LD captures!

About the Tantive Corridor: as written in the post #13, the first glitch is still visible, while the second is erased, but I didn't fix it manually... the script I used found the way to erase only the second one.

I like those burn marks! :(

AntcuFaalb said:

I like those burn marks! :(

Me too!!! I don't know if I have to erase the burn mark in the first frame, or restore the second one!

At the end, I managed to let the subtitles works, and... I discovered that the italian subtitles are not "word by word", as I expected... I'm working to recover them, also if I have to listen to the whole movie in italian and write down any single word!

So you have to wait some time, as my job takes a lot of my time this month... hope to have time soon to:

• extract some audio clips to let ilovewaterslides to detect the correct pitch of the tracks;
• convert them from 25p to 23.976p;
• synchronize the subtitles;
• mux all together in a single file...

And, because I think I should be offline for a day or two, and the new "softer" version doesn't work so well as the "harder" previous version when watched onto my TV, I started another conversion, this time with a sharpening version between them - (a new) hope this time will the right one!

I promised a release before Xmas and I'll maintain my promise. Stay tuned.

The conversion was finished this night; this morning before I quickly checked it and the quality seems good.

Now I found a literal transcript of the italian dialogs, and currently I'm "cutting & pasting" from that to the italian subtitles, (the italian subtitles, taken from the DVD, is completely wrong!) Now I'm about at 70%; hope to complete it in a few hours.

Now some help will be kindly appreciated!

Is there anybody who can confirm that the english,french, german and spanish subtitles (from the THREEPIO project, used also on Harmy's Despecialized Edition) are right?

About the audio: here you are a file containing a short sample (the title crawl) of all the five audio tracks (Sendspace, 68MB); I'm trying to figure out which one has the right pitch and which has not; then I want to convert them from 25 to 23.976.

Waiting for your help.

Alright, so:  

English audio = correct pitch

French audio = correct pitch

German audio = pitch speeded up

Italian audio = pitch speeded up

Spanish audio = correct pitch

If you want, you can send me the full audios, i'll change them to 23,976 fps with the right pitch for each one. ;)

About your audio capture, i was wondering if you used any auto gain compressor?  How did you record these 5 different audios from your LDs? Because on some of them i can hear some volume variations and it seems it's due to an auto gain compressor who reduces every sounds that are too loud and creates a strange mix on the audio track. 

Here's a little example where you can hear all the differences, it's in French but i guess it's not a problem. In this scene the best part to notice the auto gain compressor effect is when Luke and Ben are walking you can still hear the music from the cantina. Also, when Han is speaking there are some other volume variations. Pretty bad effect.

Thanks for the help!

I'd like to try to convert the audio myself, so I could learn something more.

I think to use BeHappy; but I don't know how to configure the Timestretch... first, from 25 to 23.976, and it's OK; then I have three Rate Controls:

1. Rate, Tempo and no Pitch correction
2. Pitch changed preserving Tempo
3. Tempo changed, Pitch correction

I think I must use 1) for english, french and spanish tracks, and 2) for german and italian. Am I right?

About the audio captures: as written in the first post, audio is captured bit-perfect, using the digital audio out of the laserdisc player into the digital in of the capture card; the italian soundtrack is taken from the analog out of the HIFI VHS videorecorder, to the analog in of my MiniDisc recorder - here used ONLY as a Analog-Digital Converter - then from the digital out of the MiniDisc recorder to digital in of the capture card.

So, if there are some problems, they are in the original soundtrack... If hearing the music from the cantine when Luke and Ben are walking is an indication of auto gain compressor, I'm sorry to say that all (apart the english) soundtracks are affected... there could be a "cure"?

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

If hearing the music from the cantine when Luke and Ben are walking is an indication of auto gain compressor, I'm sorry to say that all (apart the english) soundtracks are affected... there could be a "cure"?

It may be a bad mix done by the studios... if it is, there's no way to change it unfortunately.  Will see, if it's not disturbing while watching the movie i think we can deal with it.  

 

I think to use BeHappy; but I don't know how to configure the Timestretch... first, from 25 to 23.976, and it's OK; then I have three Rate Controls:

1. Rate, Tempo and no Pitch correction
2. Pitch changed preserving Tempo
3. Tempo changed, Pitch correction

 

I think I must use 1) for english, french and spanish tracks, and 2) for german and italian. Am I right?

 

You should use the (1) for EN, FR & SP tracks and (3) for GR & IT tracks. Well... it could be the opposite. It depends of the software algorithm... i'll try to use the software then i'll tell you.

I wrote the BeHappy settings before try it... and, after I applied the settings, it doesn't work here, too!

So, I let BeHappy to "Be Happy" without me, and tried Audacity instead... and it works flawlessy. Now I have converted all the tracks at correct speed/pitch for 23.976fps, 48kHz, Dolby Digital 5.1 - ready to be muxed with the video.

For the subtitles, I finished to rebuild the italian one, but there are many lines out of synchronization... I fixed at the best I can do with the few spare time I have this days, but I promised to release the alpha version before Xmas, so...

Right now I finished to mux the video with tsMuxeR, along with the five soundtracks and the ten subtitltes (five forced, five full); I'm going to watch all the movie to check if all is allright; I think the first thing I'll do will be to torrent the file.

It is around 8.4GB, so if you want to download it, take it in account.