TServo2049 said:
The IP used for the JSC was not made in 1985. It was made, at the very latest, in 1982, because it is the same source used for the early video releases.
Also, the JSC IP and Technidisc/GOUT IP can't be the same, because the latter source lacks the glue marks at almost every cut.
Finally, wouldn't an IP made in 1985 have been on some kind of low-fade stock? Supposedly, the 97 SEs of Empire and Jedi came from interpositives, and if they were usable in 1997, that must mean that they hadn't faded. (Remember, the original was the only big restoration project of the three.)
Can you make a thread containing everything you know about the history of the film source(s) (IPs, etc.)?
It would be very interesting to read. I'm sure others (e.g., msycamore) would be willing to contribute to it as well.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
TServo2049 said:
(Remember, the original was the only big restoration project of the three.)
I didn't know that. So they didn't touch the negatives of ESB and ROTJ? I guess at least those two negatives still exist in their original form then!
:)
"Obvious mistakes moved to appropriate threads." Sorry for the confusion folks.
I've edited the post to reflect the thread better. Thanks to Moth3r for pointing it out ..... ;)
You_Too said:
In a way it might sound complicated, but it gives me complete control over how each frame looks.
You know 3PO's oil bath scene, in that one I handpainted the lights behind him, the blinking light behind Luke when he's playing with his spaceship toy, and R2's light since they all had the wrong color. Compared to that scene, this one's a walk in the park.
Your dedication is admirable.
I completely identify with your reasoning, as well. I feel like I would do the same thing myself, were I involved in a project like this.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
Jetrell Fo said:
91. Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith - $600.00
92. Star Wars (Original 1977 Version, no “Episode IV” inserted, vinegar smell) - $250.00
93. Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope (Special Edition) - $1000.00
94. Star Wars: Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back (Original 1980 Version, mix of Eastman and Fuji reels) - $500.00Saw these over @ 35mm Forum in anyone is interested.....
Is anybody buying it ?
pittrek said:
Jetrell Fo said:
91. Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith - $600.00
92. Star Wars (Original 1977 Version, no “Episode IV” inserted, vinegar smell) - $250.00
93. Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope (Special Edition) - $1000.00
94. Star Wars: Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back (Original 1980 Version, mix of Eastman and Fuji reels) - $500.00Saw these over @ 35mm Forum in anyone is interested.....
Is anybody buying it ?
Wrong thread.
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Tyrphanax said:
Your dedication is admirable.
I completely identify with your reasoning, as well. I feel like I would do the same thing myself, were I involved in a project like this.
Thanks. I'm glad you appreciate it!
Small update: I've finished fixing the practice orb (or whatever it's called) now. Here's a comparison between the raw GOUT upscaled to 720p and the fixed version:
That looks amazing, You_Too!
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
You_Too said:
TServo2049 said:
(Remember, the original was the only big restoration project of the three.)
I didn't know that. So they didn't touch the negatives of ESB and ROTJ? I guess at least those two negatives still exist in their original form then!
Remember, I said "supposedly." But now that I think about it, they would have had to go back to the raw, unedited camera negatives to recreate the wipes.
I do know that Zombie said that "ILM used the IP's for pretty much all their work in ESB and ROTJ." I guess that's why I said that "supposedly" the O-negs weren't utilized for the film at all, but my conjecture may well be totally wrong.
I don't KNOW that much about the film sources, it's all educated guesses and deductive reasoning. Like, the JSC has to be from the same IP as the 80s video releases because they share the same damage and glue marks, which means that unless they come from two different IPs that share all of the same flaws, the JSC doesn't come from an IP made in '85.
I don't know if that "1985 IP" was used for ANY video releases. The Technidisc/GOUT source was an older element which had stuff like the Tantive burn marks printed in. Those could not have been on the negative, because the video releases, which did come from newer IPs, lacked them.
Maybe the "1985 IP" was the source for the 1991 UK widescreen tape? Although that transfer comes from a source that looks similar to the '82/JSC one (no burn marks, "cloudy" Yavin takeoff composite), it's not the same because it lacks the glue marks, and the weird blobs throughout reel 3.
There's also the question of the pre-THX French/German widescreen laserdiscs, which have the same cloudless Yavin composite as the GOUT, but according to a member that has the French LD, there are no Tantive burn marks. They also had to cut to an alternate, inferior film source for the Greedo scene, suggesting that the main source had subtitles. Was THAT the 1985 IP? I have no idea.
I'd love to have cold, hard facts, but I don't actually have any. Sorry if I gave the impression that I knew something any of you didn't know -- I'm just guessing, and my guesses may be wrong.
I now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion of this preservation project.
TServo2049 said:
I don't KNOW that much about the film sources, it's all educated guesses and deductive reasoning. Like, the JSC has to be from the same IP as the 80s video releases because they share the same damage and glue marks, which means that unless they come from two different IPs that share all of the same flaws, the JSC doesn't come from an IP made in '85.
I'd love to have hard facts, but I don't actually have any. Sorry if I gave the impression that I knew something any of you didn't know -- I don't.
Don't be sorry! I know much of what you "know" in this regard came about via deductive reasoning. That's fine.
I think a thread written by you on this topic would be helpful because most of the relevant information is scattered across this forum, forcing each interested OT member to track it all down piece-by-piece, only to deduce what yourself (and others) have already deduced!
Plus, it would enable other knowledgeable people to post, with a possible timeline of what-the-hell-happened to these film elements over the years coming forth as a result.
Knowledge is power and we need all the power we can get to fight The Empire Disney/LFL.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Nice update You_Too. Colors are superb.
One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.
Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.
Looks great as usual, You_Too!
-G
Some serious detail salvaged there. Good work.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
Thanks a lot guys!
Small update: Even if we will focus on fixing color errors, we've decided to include at least some fixes for some of the worst frames in SW. Like the end of the Tantive scene where Vader walks past the camera and the bottom of the screen flashes yellow before it cuts to the star destroyer in space.
You_Too said:
Thanks a lot guys!
Small update: Even if we will focus on fixing color errors, we've decided to include at least some fixes for some of the worst frames in SW. Like the end of the Tantive scene where Vader walks past the camera and the bottom of the screen flashes yellow before it cuts to the star destroyer in space.
That's the end of IP reel #1!
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Ok, now the final shot has been fixed for the first film, and I decided to upload a sample so you could all see the difference!
It's that horribly dirty second wide shot of Luke in the Falcon, before and after http://www.sendspace.com/file/prokuf
You_Too said:
Ok, now the final shot has been fixed for the first film, and I decided to upload a sample so you could all see the difference!
It's that horribly dirty second wide shot of Luke in the Falcon, before and after http://www.sendspace.com/file/prokuf
Wow, excellent job! It looks great!!!
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
AntcuFaalb said:
You_Too said:
AntcuFaalb said:
IIRC, this shot is absurdly dirty in GOUT.
It's so bad that I chose to use it for teaching myself PFClean.
The second wide shot of Luke with the saber is. It just has to be from a different print.
I agree. I remember reading that LFL replaced some of the more-F'ed-up DC shots with ones new(er) transfers for the 1995 THX release. Maybe this shot is one of them?
It's not foreign dirt on the print in this case, what you're seeing in this shot is dirt built into the elements of the original optical effects work. Black splotches everywhere... it's present in other composites as well but not as extreme as in this shot. The landspeeder pass by shot in Mos Eisley is another sequence that contains much built in dirt.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
You_Too said:
Ok, now the final shot has been fixed for the first film, and I decided to upload a sample so you could all see the difference!
It's that horribly dirty second wide shot of Luke in the Falcon, before and after http://www.sendspace.com/file/prokuf
Wow. That originally looked awful. Great work, as always. I remain extremely excited for this project. The lightsaber especially looks fantastic. Awesome job on that.
May the Force be with you.
Excellent work!
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
Wow, that's a lot of dirt you had to deal with! I don't envy you that.
If I may, the floor and hallway look dead, suffering from held grain, as if you created a single clean master frame of those areas to replace as much of each dirty frame as possible. The trick is to make several of those, using different source frames to make them, and use a different one each time you paint out a piece of dirt. That way the grain is different for every cleaned frame. I hope this came across constructively! :)
Also, this is the first time I noticed that Hamill looks like he's about to laugh in the last few frames of the shot. LOL
Treadwell said:
If I may, the floor and hallway look dead, suffering from held grain, as if you created a single clean master frame of those areas to replace as much of each dirty frame as possible. The trick is to make several of those, using different source frames to make them, and use a different one each time you paint out a piece of dirt. That way the grain is different for every cleaned frame. I hope this came across constructively! :)
Maybe it just needs a touch of artificial grain? Otherwise, I still think it looks great.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Actually, why you feel it looks "dead" is because the grain is also a bit smeared and upscaling it like this shows it even more. Remember, it's the GOUT, the 8th wonder of the world! haha
Wow, I didn't remember the compositing of the training orb to be so bad...
I guess that's one of the advantages of low-rez blurry picture.
Dr. M
The restored colors and the bringing out of the detail is really nice, great job. :)
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.