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Info Wanted: anyone done a TPM and AOTC colour correction? — Page 3

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BmB said:

 

You_Too said:

When you first look at it you think "Oh, they fixed some of the pink tint and it's less cropped too!" but then if you look closely at the path in the middle:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/970/55962776.png" width="114" height="90" />

See how they made this little part brighter?

Those small changes are enough of a reason to not use the blu-ray for a theatrical HD version.


The whole image is uniformly brighter. That one part is not changed anymore than the rest of the image is.

 

That's what I thought as well. The contrast looks fine, the brightness was due to the general colour correction made.

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Alexrd said:

BmB said:

The whole image is uniformly brighter. That one part is not changed anymore than the rest of the image is.

That's what I thought as well. The contrast looks fine, the brightness was due to the general colour correction made.

I'll have to prove you guys wrong there.

Here is the old vs new, with the old now being color matched to the new so you can see it even more clearly:

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You_Too said:

LexX said:

Are you really saying that you'd rather leave more image out than that small change?

That was not my point. The point is who knows how many small changes here and there like that one are in the blu-ray release? Just take that little thing about the green clothes being changed to red in the Cantina scene in SW, which was pointed out just before Harmy released his version.

That's one reason why the blu-ray version probably shouldn't be used to create a theatrical version in HD. At least from a purist perspective.

But knowing the PT is not as old as the OT, there should be lots of unfaded prints out there which would look better than both the HDTV version and blu-ray.

It's true there are many changes both great and small.

For example, I remember those online text commentaries they did for the dvd's (I think they were called "depth commentaries") and something that was pointed out during an establishing nighttime shot of Theed in TPM (right after the "Weesa goin' Home!!!" and the Queen's ship blasting away from Coruscant) was that George requested that a bridge be added over the river on the right hand side of the frame specifically for the dvd release.

Actually, it might've been that the river wasn't even there at all in the original theatrical. I don't remember, it's been a while.

Someone with either the widescreen vhs or the laserdisc can confirm this for me.

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 (Edited)

Fang Zei said:

You_Too said:

LexX said:

Are you really saying that you'd rather leave more image out than that small change?

That was not my point. The point is who knows how many small changes here and there like that one are in the blu-ray release? Just take that little thing about the green clothes being changed to red in the Cantina scene in SW, which was pointed out just before Harmy released his version.

That's one reason why the blu-ray version probably shouldn't be used to create a theatrical version in HD. At least from a purist perspective.

But knowing the PT is not as old as the OT, there should be lots of unfaded prints out there which would look better than both the HDTV version and blu-ray.

It's true there are many changes both great and small.

For example, I remember those online text commentaries they did for the dvd's (I think they were called "depth commentaries") and something that was pointed out during an establishing nighttime shot of Theed in TPM (right after the "Weesa goin' Home!!!" and the Queen's ship blasting away from Coruscant) was that George requested that a bridge be added over the river on the right hand side of the frame specifically for the dvd release.

Actually, it might've been that the river wasn't even there at all in the original theatrical. I don't remember, it's been a while.

Someone with either the widescreen vhs or the laserdisc can confirm this for me.

Just checked my Widescreen VHS.....there is a river....there is no bridge.  I then checked the DVD....the bridge appears...it is at the end of the river where the waterfall would be seen.

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Jetrell Fo said:

Fang Zei said:

You_Too said:

LexX said:

Are you really saying that you'd rather leave more image out than that small change?

That was not my point. The point is who knows how many small changes here and there like that one are in the blu-ray release? Just take that little thing about the green clothes being changed to red in the Cantina scene in SW, which was pointed out just before Harmy released his version.

That's one reason why the blu-ray version probably shouldn't be used to create a theatrical version in HD. At least from a purist perspective.

But knowing the PT is not as old as the OT, there should be lots of unfaded prints out there which would look better than both the HDTV version and blu-ray.

It's true there are many changes both great and small.

For example, I remember those online text commentaries they did for the dvd's (I think they were called "depth commentaries") and something that was pointed out during an establishing nighttime shot of Theed in TPM (right after the "Weesa goin' Home!!!" and the Queen's ship blasting away from Coruscant) was that George requested that a bridge be added over the river on the right hand side of the frame specifically for the dvd release.

Actually, it might've been that the river wasn't even there at all in the original theatrical. I don't remember, it's been a while.

Someone with either the widescreen vhs or the laserdisc can confirm this for me.

Just checked my Widescreen VHS.....there is a river....there is no bridge.  I then checked the DVD....the bridge appears...it is at the end of the river where the waterfall would be seen.

Well, that change isn't related to my or YouToo's post so don't know why it's still being quoted. That change would appear in the HDTV version as well.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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 (Edited)

I know, I was just bringing up that particular change as a good example of a "blink and you'll miss it" change in the prequels.

It should be possible to re-create the theatrical cut in HD. The blu-ray would be the best starting point because there's no cropping, but then you've got stuff like the different neimoidian viewscreen, digital yoda, etc, for which you'd need to go back to the cropped hd broadcast.

Really makes me wish someone could just get their hands on a '99 release print.

 

Alexrd said:

Fang Zei said:

From the blu-ray screenshots I've seen, it strikes me as odd that TPM and ROTS look pretty much exactly as they should, but AOTC now looks different. I wonder why they made the decision to shift the color. Did they not have a 23.976p hdtv master from 2002 lying around?? Maybe they had to make a fresh telecine from the digital files for the blu-ray and the colorist - for whatever reason - added the teal. Ugh, it just doesn't look good.

TPM does look as it should (colour-wise), for the most part. AotC teal shift was a very last minute change (like the humdinger glitch) since according to people who were at the Comic Con presentation and the press junket, AotC didn't have that teal tint at the time. Even the small clips of the movie shown in the extras look fine.

The animated menu's on the AOTC blu-ray have the teal tint, just like the transfer itself.

It's truly baffling that they made that change. Looking at the screenshot comparisons, it's like you're watching the movie through sunglasses. It just looks objectively bad and I can't think of a subjective reason for them doing this.

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Fang Zei said:

The animated menu's on the AOTC blu-ray have the teal tint, just like the transfer itself.

But when they show movie clips between interviews in the extras, the teal shift is gone.

It's truly baffling that they made that change. Looking at the screenshot comparisons, it's like you're watching the movie through sunglasses. It just looks objectively bad and I can't think of a subjective reason for them doing this.

Indeed. Same with the scene swap at the end of the duel between Yoda and Dooku.

Example of new colour timing when compared to the original raw footage:

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It's so dumb of them to apply this odd coloration all over the place, gives a weird purplish look to everything. What is it about dvd and blu-ray releases that makes Lucasfilm always want to mess up the colors in both the Star Wars trilogy and the prequels?? It's bizarre..

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

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Dunedain said:

It's so dumb of them to apply this odd coloration all over the place, gives a weird purplish look to everything. What is it about dvd and blu-ray releases that makes Lucasfilm always want to mess up the colors in both the Star Wars trilogy and the prequels?? It's bizarre..

Actually I think in the shots Alexrd posted, the color to the right is the blu-ray's color timing, or am I wrong?

I know TPM was very pink on DVD/HDTV.

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You_Too said:

Dunedain said:

It's so dumb of them to apply this odd coloration all over the place, gives a weird purplish look to everything. What is it about dvd and blu-ray releases that makes Lucasfilm always want to mess up the colors in both the Star Wars trilogy and the prequels?? It's bizarre..

Actually I think in the shots Alexrd posted, the color to the right is the blu-ray's color timing, or am I wrong?

I know TPM was very pink on DVD/HDTV.

No, the picture on the right is from the original raw footage. The one on the left is from the Blu-ray.

P.S: Although I think Dunedain is talking about AotC new colour timing.

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Example of new colour timing when compared to the original raw footage:

 To me it looks like the messed with the white balance. Because the left looks colder then the right, or it's been magenta sifted and then they adjust the tint to the green side. To make the skin tones look orange. You said the raw cap is from the right side.

One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.

Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.

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 (Edited)

Delete.......... 

One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.

Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.

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timdiggerm said:

Yup, those images don't work here.

 I see that, I'll delete it.

One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.

Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.

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Of course they work. You just have to right click on the image, copy the image url, open a new browser tab/window, paste the copied url to the address bar, press enter and if it still won't work press CTRL+F5 a couple of times. Easy :-)

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 (Edited)

On the one hand, I was referring to the releases in a general sense, I mean we have the 2004 original trilogy DVD set with it's messed up colors, whites, etc, and now also the blu-rays and how the prequels look (or at least Episode I), and they still didn't fix the original trilogy colors. As to the purplish comment, I was thinking of mainly the first post on page one, with that yucky odd purple coating over everything. It does not look good, and I don't know why they would mess it up like that.

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

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I think TPM's Blu-ray looks fine for the most part. I seem to recall it to be a bit more warmer (colour wise) in theaters. The changes I wanted to make are more about colour filters in some selected scenes.

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 (Edited)

So, I had another chance to give the TPM BD a closer look and it isn't really that bad - both available HD transfers are bad in their own way but in direct comparison, the BD definitely wins over the HDTV/DVD master - it may have some of the grain removed but it has quite a bit of fine detail left in it and it definitely has tons more fine detail than the HDTV captures, so I think that if an HD theatrical reconstruction was to be attempted, the BD should be used as the main source.

Check this out:

Look at the detail on the tunic and Qui-Gon's hair and beard - I only have an 8GB 1080p HDTV capture of TPM, so the higher bitrate raw capture is likely better but I doubt it would make a huge difference in a low motion shot like this. I also tried adding some grain to the BD footage (3rd picture) and as you can see, it does give an illusion of more fine detail and I think it should be considered for a theatrical reconstruction using the BD as the main source.

The problem I actually find worse than the grain removal, is the color banding n the out of focus areas but there unfortunately isn't much that can be done about that.

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Nice work Harmy! But I think that grain added pic would look even better if you hadn't sharpened it.

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 (Edited)

Harmy said:

Check this out:

Did you change the contrast when you added grain? It appears to look just a bit darker.

Looks great, though. Grain also helps CG and composite images blend in more.

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No, just added the grain and yes, I did sharpen it a little to see if any more detail could be gotten out of it but like You_Too said, it probably wasn't a great idea :-)

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Hey Harmy does this mean your seriously thinking about Despecializing TPM?! I would love it.