PROMETHEUS was (Alien 0?) NOW NO LONGER SPOILER FREE. — Page 25

Nope all my problems come from it being (in my opinion, obviously) a not very good film, in some aspects a Gods awful film.

It has some astonishingly visual and atmospheric moments but they are brief.

In comparison to Blade Runner Vickers I guess is as glacial as Rachel but the rest of the human crew (if indeed she is human, or indeed she) are annoyingly awful or easy to forget.

It's remarkable to me that anyone can equate the two films in terms of quality and I say this as someone who actually prefers Hannibal to Silence Of The Lambs and even the watered down Alien 3 to Aliens.

I'll just have to mark it up to the variety and diversity of this astonishingly weird planet of yours. 

Not to drag this out any more, because fair enough if you feel that way. But when it comes out on DVD, give it one or two more viewings. Because I felt that the characters could have had more to do on first impression too. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record now, but that was also my first impression of Blade Runner. Yeah, Deckard and Rachel and Pris and Batty are nicely done, but honestly who the hell are any of the other characters? All good actors, but basically nothing there. But the more you re-watch, the more subtleties you pick up, and by the third or fourth viewing you find yourself actually enjoying Edward James Olmos, who--in my memory--comes across as a paper-thin glorified extra on first impression. But side characters like Chew and Gaff, you begin to understand them as characters, and Ridley Scott knew this because he lived with the film, but he made the mistake of forgetting that you only begin to see them in three-dimensions when you have seen the film as much as he had. That's why Blade Runner can sometimes make a bad first impression but become a major genre classic on repeat viewings. I had that experience myself, and I saw it in the 1990s too.

And I feel very, very similarly about Prometheus. Weyland, Fiefeld, minor characters like that, there actually is a lot more to them than may first seem, and characters like Vickers and Janeck are IMO possibly the best characters in the film but they do require more than one viewing to fully appreciate all that went into them. When you really start breaking it down, a lot of the "stupid" things in the film aren't as stupid as people say, but I can see why it may seem that way on first impression.

I realize this sounds like an excuse--just watch the film enough times and you'll begin to ignore the problems--but I don't believe it is any more than it is for Blade Runner. The characters in Prometheus are not as eye catching and memorable as Alien and Aliens, but I would put them on par with something like Blade Runner and Alien 3. Like those films, they may seem thin at first, especially since the visuals are so overwhelming, but there is a lot more going on than one viewing would reveal. So my advice, if you like the Alien franchise, is give the film a second or third viewing and just soak in all the details, because it's the details where Prometheus really shines.

          ^I liked the film. I tend to think you are right that it will grow on me. I look forward to discovering where it will take us.

            I'm someone who eats my meals one dish at a time. First my steak until it's gone, then my salad.... I notice people who take a bite of each dish in alternation and I think Why do they eat from tables when they have perfectly good tummies? I would have prefered a straight sequel or something entirely in another universe.

            Scott has directed four of my very favorite films.  IMO, ALIEN was the greatest true SciFi film, BLADERUNNER was great TechnoNoir, GLADIATOR was magnificent and KOH was sublime. PROM didn't make it into that league.

I will admit, I am a Ridley Scott fanboy. He is by far--by far--my favourite director, and like I said, aside from Star Wars and ESB, I would say Alien and Blade Runner are my favourite films. But I'm also not blind, he has made some turkeys. I own every single film he has made, over two dozen of them, and stuff like White Squall is a piece of shit, 1492--which I have to watch on goddamn Laserdisc--isn't very good, and Hannibal and Black Hawk Down look nice but who can tell the characters apart? Meanwhile the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven is pretty dull, and G.I. Jane isn't anything worth writing home about. He's my favourite filmmaker but he's far from perfect. So when I praise Prometheus, I'm not just saying that, it may be imperfect but so are some of his masterpieces like Legend and Blade Runner. To me, it's the best sci-fi film I have seen since Sunshine, and much better IMO. There is a lot of backlash right now, and fair enough. My own prediction is that it will be eventually seen akin to Blade Runner, but maybe I am wrong, but if I am then I would say it will be seen similar to Legend--some big problems, not the best film you will ever see, but god damn interesting and one of the most spectacular films around.

zombie84 said:

 ...Meanwhile the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven is pretty dull....

        I appreciated the pace. It seemed to be purposeful. It immersed us in the rythm of the period. I can understand why others could think it was slow for an epic war film.

       Edit: ^ LEGEND is a good comparison. That film was wonderful, if a bit off in ways.

thejediknighthusezni said:

zombie84 said:

 ...Meanwhile the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven is pretty dull....

        I appreciated the pace. It seemed to be purposeful. It immersed us in the rythm of the period. I can understand why others could think it was slow for an epic war film.

I knew that KOH would have a directors cut since it was announced so early. So I made one of the toughest movie decisions in my life and ignored the film for most of 2005, but it was okay because I had Revenge of the Sith to distract me. I consider the Directors Cut of Kingdom of Heaven to be the best historical epic since Lawrence of Arabia, and I mean that, it's easily one of the best films I have ever witnessed, so when I saw the theatrical cut on TV in 2008 I was horrified and offended. So I'm biased, I would probably be here defending it as a "solid but flawed film" in 2005 had I seen it in theaters, but Jesus is it basically two different movies. One is one of the best films I have ever seen and the other is....not bad.

I didn't think the film was slow.

The best bit for me is all the way up until the stupid holographic briefing and that's the slowest bit of the film.

I've seen it three times now (twice more than it took for me to fall in love with Blade Runner)

Naturally I will see it again.

If I can stoop so low as to buy the truly hateful AVP:Requiem, for completion sake, it would be narrow minded of me to not get Prometheus (the deleted material and the collected viral videos are worth the price of a second hand copy alone).

When you really break it down that doesn't hold up as strongly as first impression may give though.

The ship is not the same ship as Alien. The Engineer is not the same creature seen in Alien--that creature has a slightly different face, slightly different design and is still about 20% larger. It's also attached to the chair, as in the designs overlap, not just growing onto it from decay. That one also carries alien eggs, never seen in Prometheus. The planet is different. None of the characters are the same--except the Weyland namesake. Even the state of technology seems to be on a different timeline (yes, I relaize it's because in the 1970s that's how it seemed things would go). Plus, the styles of the two films are quie different, other than having sci-fi/horror elements.

But you are right, the design and the set-pieces definitely recall Alien and are clearly intentionally based around the designs from that film.

That's why I say it isn't really isn't a prequel. It's a film that takes the design elements and set-pieces from Alien and re-configures them for a story that is apart. At the most one could say it runs parallel. It's not really a sequel, but yet it's not distinctive enough to be truely seen as it's own thing, so it's that rare category of pseudo-sequel. There are a few historical precedents that have been made similarly, and they have always confused audiences as well. But prequel? That seems too definitive a term. I guess Prometheus 2 could easily turn the tables and tie it in with the Alien series better. But from what Scott has said, Prometheus 2 will be even more disconnected and take the series on it's own unique trajectory that almost completely leaves behind the Alien origins of the storyline. I think if that happens--and it seems to be in motion--people will be able to better frame the series as a parallel or alternate-universe sort of series, which I think will help.

Hmmm, the new blu-ray awaits with some possible answers - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJuI6jJzfF0

The other version of mutant Fifield looks so much better than the one the finally used.

The fact that the film is made from the gutted script of a direct sequel is the fuel behind the confusion some of these unobservant people.

It would have been better to have started from scratch.

Quite a bit of new deleted scenes info. up at avpgalaxy.net and amongst the forum comments there.

Guy Pierce does an awesome job in the full 7 min. 'younger Weyland' speech, and really gives the character some much-needed background gravitas.  It's 'subtitled' Long Beach, California. 2023 at the beginning of the footage now, and I definately hope that any future fanedits will include it somewhere after the 'Sacrificial' footage and 'Main Titles'.

Sadly, I think it's unlikely that any of this footage will actually get integrated in any potential official 'Extended Cut' that Ridley may release in the future, as this great 'viral' scene-setter was actually directed by his son I believe.  So that might be a problem possibly.  If it isn't, it would be a great loss to the movie as far as I'm concerned, as I reckon any future cut would be the poorer for not using (at least some of) this footage eventually.

I'm looking forward to seeing all the others too eventually, but it's a real pity they aren't all being included on the standard DVD release as well.

Just for the record, because I found it infuriating as hell when people started saying this film made no money...

An R-rated semi-original sci-fi film without A-list actors and machine guns with a budget of $130 million just crossed the $401 million worldwide theatrical gross.

And theater sales are 50% of a movie's profit margin.

Just saying....

This is one of Fox's bigger success stories in recent years.

Yeah, almost as much of a money spinner as those Star Wars prequels.

Bingowings said:

Yeah, almost as much of a money spinner as those Star Wars prequels.

I don't think that is a very legitimate comparison.

Only in the sense that Ridley didn't write the originator and O'Bannon who died during production didn't direct it.

Strictly speaking Brandywine is Lucasfilm when it comes to Alien films.

Well since O'Bannon isn't around, it's not really possible to have him write it, is it? Alien, the film, doesn't much reflect his original screenplay anyway, without offense to him I wouldn't want him writing another Alien film. Alien wasn't his baby, it was a collaborative effort that began with his original storyline, but that storyline was pretty different in execution than the film.

Again, I think it's reaching to compare Brandywine to Lucasfilm, just because they are making sequels. The original film was never a one-man-film in the auteur style, and the guy who was in the drivers seat--Scott--was in the drivers seat for this one. It's as close as one could get without bringing Giger back onboard.Comparing it to the prequels is just searching for criticism. There are no Jar Jar dolls and podracing video games here, you can't get a Taco Bell prometheus combo, it isn't being marketed to or pandering to kids, and the marketing scheme they did use is one of the most sophisticated and intelligently done ones in movie history.

So, other than being a prequel--a sort-of prequel--to a film from the 70s, no it's not really at all like the Star Wars prequels, other than the fact that you didn't like both.

True there are much less Neca figurines and the Prometheus video game tie-in is a colonial marines game with the Alien bone ship mysteriously having the layout for the bone ship in Prometheus.

Fox doesn't make direct money from Star Wares or the Xenomart.

And Lucas was probably more in charge for the prequels than he was for the first Star Wars film.

He even had a hand in the writing if you can call that writing (something Ridley didn't do either time around).

I greatly preferred the CGI mutant to Oddbod Jr doing yoga.

Some of the scenes are sadly missed and would make the film more interesting especially if other scenes were dropped.

The engineer with the removed sequences seems more of a victim of his alien creations than a rampaging mummy.

The way he ponders the mobile and the image of the girl playing the violin, only to get hit with an axe by the 'believer'.

If Alien was a sci-fi riff on Dracula, this shows how the film could have been a pretty good riff on Frankenstein, much more than Blade Runner was.

Some of the deleted scenes just underline what is already wrong with the piece like the awful Our First Alien scene or anything where Holloway is dismissing the most important find in history as a loud of dead bodies.

I preferred vodka swigging rudely hair pulling Shaw the one at the end of the theatrical cut too.

Bingowings said:

I greatly preferred the CGI mutant to Oddbod Jr doing yoga.

Dammit, I won't be able to get that 'Carry On Screaming' reference out of my head now when I see 'double-jointed' Fifield again! ;)

While I'd definately like Ridley to eventually release an 'extended' cut incorporating any favoured deleted bits he sees fit to include, I'd prefer it if certain moments of the 'Theatrical' cut were actually *removed* also, rather than just added to.  Oh well, there's always the fanediting thing I guess.

If nothing else, I'd certainly have liked the movie a whole lot more if even just the Weyland 'TEDtalk' speech had been incorporated (even if only the truncated 'viral' version)...even though it wasn't actually filmed by Ridley himself. 

Sadly, I guess that won't be happening come any 'official' re-cut he does, but here's the full scene in all it's glory now - http://www.prometheusnews.net/movie/extended-ted2023-talk/

Going back to the deleted 'Engineer talks' scene that was discussed on  the previous page, I just came across another interesting snippet from it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLgw0jeu_-c

I still haven't seen the full version of the whole deleted scene on blu-ray yet, but having now seen this additional portion of it where the 'Engineer' is wakened up, I quite like it.  I'm glad to see that his initial dialogue is interpreted by David at least if this scene ends up in anyone's edit.