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What do you LIKE about the EU? — Page 26

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zombie84 said:

Anchorhead, I never expected you of all people to become one of the EU experts around here.

Well, expert is a strong word but I'm working on it.  For the record, you had a big hand in my transition from film to novels for personal canon.  If we ever cross paths, the first round is on me, man.  Nice to have you back, by the way.

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Bryce Dallas Howard always comes off as the "girl next door" type to me. I don't know if she could play a tough and stoic character like Mara.

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walking_carpet said:

i dunno 'bout bryce.  she looks too much like her dad!

:/

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Better start planning my summer\autumn reading so that I'm ready for this when it's released.  I'll finish up Outbound Flight, then take a break from fiction and go with a couple of favorites; Finally Home and The Eighty-Dollar Champion.

 

December 26th.

 

Back cover synopsis;

To make his biggest score, Han’s ready to take even bigger risks.
But even he can’t do this job solo.
 
Han Solo should be basking in his moment of glory. After all, the cocky smuggler and captain of the Millennium Falcon just played a key role in the daring raid that destroyed the Death Star and landed the first serious blow to the Empire in its war against the Rebel Alliance. But after losing the reward his heroics earned him, Han’s got nothing to celebrate. Especially since he’s deep in debt to the ruthless crime lord Jabba the Hutt. There’s a bounty on Han’s head—and if he can’t cough up the credits, he’ll surely pay with his hide.

The only thing that can save him is a king’s ransom. Or maybe a gangster’s fortune? That’s what a mysterious stranger is offering in exchange for Han’s less-than-legal help with a riskier-than-usual caper. The payoff will be more than enough for Han to settle up with Jabba—and ensure he never has to haggle with the Hutts again.
 
All he has to do is infiltrate the ultra-fortified stronghold of a Black Sun crime syndicate underboss and crack the galaxy’s most notoriously impregnable safe. It sounds like a job for miracle workers . . . or madmen. So Han assembles a gallery of rogues who are a little of both—including his indispensable sidekick Chewbecca and the cunning Lando Calrissian. If anyone can dodge, deceive, and defeat heavily armed thugs, killer droids, and Imperial agents alike—and pull off the heist of the century—it’s Solo’s scoundrels. But will their crime really pay, or will it cost them the ultimate price?

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I like most of the EU. Anything written by Zahn is must read, and with that being said, the Thrawn Trilogy are by far the best EU novels. I also like the Darth Bane books by Drew Karpyshyn eventhough they feel a little rushed. Chewbacca dying didn't need to happen though. 

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 (Edited)

 

Mid-book review of Outbound Flight.  I thought I'd mention a few quick, spoiler-free(ish) thoughts since I had planned to skip this novel.  Because this story takes place during the prequel era, I had decided it wasn't for me.  As is well documented,  I have zero interest in any of that.

However, I was browbeat by a couple of members who shall remain nameless ;-)  and decided to give it a try. I'm glad I did.  I was not digging it at first because it is very Prequel early on.  Not so much story, but character mentions. Because of that, I nearly put it down.  I stayed with it, but slowly.  It's taken me a while to get into it again, but now that it's moved past those characters it's been hard to put down.

The Lorana, Car'das, Thrass, and Thrawn story is Absolutely fantastic.  Lorana, in particular, is up there with any of the strong Zahn characters from past novels. The second half of the novel reads like a film.  Great stuff.  Full review soon.

*Edit*

 

Full review with spoilers;

Parts of it I loved, parts of it I struggled through.  As I mentioned before, I struggled with the Prequel characters of the early portions.  The struggle for me wasn't with the story or how the Prequel characters were written.  It was more of a struggle for me not to just put the book down and forget about it.

I stayed with it (reluctantly) because I'd been told it was worth it and because I was very interested in Lorana and Car'das.  He's an interesting character in some earlier novels so I wanted to see how he was in his early years. Lorana was interesting in her own right and ended up being what saved the story for me.  Particularly after she partners with Thrawn's brother as they head to The Redoubt.   The last few chapters are very well done. The attack and the subsequent crash are textbook Zahn.

To me, the Prequel characters seemed forced.  Kenobi and Annikin felt out of place in a Zahn story and particularly so in this one.  Annikin reads like an after-thought.  Zahn's work is much deeper than Lucas Prequel, so they felt like filler and I'm sorry they were there taking pages away from Jorus and Lorana.  The Kenobi and Annikin roles could have very easily been one of the other pairs of Jedis on that trip and in the context of the story would have made more sense.  Their reason for being added to the crew of Outbound Flight was thin.

Kenobi and Annikin also took pages away from the story of the ship itself, which I wanted to know more about.  I dig the idea of several ships married to a large inner core for a years-long exploration of unknown space.  In the story they plan on being gone at least ten years.

The other Prequel characters were fairly limited.  I've seen pictures of Sidious, Windu, and others so I knew who they were referencing.  A few Prequel droids and events are referenced also.

I'll end up reading it again, but it will be because of the Zahn characters, not the Lucas characters.  Lorana, Car'das, Thrass, and Thrawn were all  interesting and well handled.  I will say, the whole thing makes me want to go back and reread Survivors Quest.  I'll probably start tonight.

I guess if I had to sum it up I'd say Outbound Flight has something for all Star Wars fans.  If you dig Zahn EU, his characters in here are strong.  If you dig Lucas Characters, there are plenty for you and as a bonus you end up getting introduced to some iconic Zahn characters.  It's a great way to see how much better a grasp Zahn has of the Star Wars universe compared to Lucas.

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Anchorhead said:


To me, the Prequel characters seemed forced.  Kenobi and Annikin felt out of place in a Zahn story and particularly so in this one.  Annikin reads like an after-thought.  Zahn's work is much deeper than Lucas Prequel, so they felt like filler and I'm sorry they were there taking pages away from Jorus and Lorana.  The Kenobi and Annikin roles could have very easily been one of the other pairs of Jedis on that trip and in the context of the story would have made more sense.  Their reason for being added to the crew of Outbound Flight was thin.

Kenobi and Annikin also took pages away from the story of the ship itself, which I wanted to know more about.  I dig the idea of several ships married to a large inner core for a years-long exploration of unknown space.  In the story they plan on being gone at least ten years.


If Zahn had written Outbound Flight from a PT-neutral standpoint, I wouldn't hesitate to snatch a copy up from my local library and give it a read. As it is, though, I've made a firm decision to avoid any and all EU that I know with 60+% certainty isn't going to mesh with my personal canon, so I won't even bother. Shame, as the overall story sounds pretty good.

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 (Edited)

Minor delay in rereading Survivor's Quest.

 

I forgot about Mist Encounter, a short story at the end of Outbound Flight.

* Spoilers *

Enjoyed it.  Ground-based military & quasi-military actions are Zahn's wheelhouse.  This is the short story on how Thrawn became involved with the Empire.  He's discovered living somewhat primitively on a deserted planet after having been exiled years earlier, due to his actions in Outbound Flight. 

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OK, so I keep hearing good things about the Darth Plagueis book. I was considering giving it a go but I am very hessitant because it sounds like a full on prequel universe story and I hated the scene where Darth Plagueis (Seriously? general Grievous and Darth Plagueis? Where's Dr. Horrible and Captain Evil?) was mentioned. Anyone know anything about the book?

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I thought it was the only scene in the film that made any sense being there.

Silly name and all but why couldn't we have had a film about Palpatine and his master instead of Palpatine and Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Annie Skywalker and Vader etc, etc.

Surely the key to a prequel series is showing us stuff we don't know about?

We know about Vader, we know Palpatine takes over with his help but how did he get there to do all this?

There are about three scenes in the whole trilogy which deal with that and they are all boring.

Imagine a PT about a the rise to power of the Emperor instead of the fall from grace of an already rather unlikable git who only really becomes interesting and fun in the three films that pre-existed it.

Don't know anything about the book mind.

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Harmy said:


Anyone know anything about the book?


Plagueis' real name is Hego Damask, Palpatine is revealed to have been born evil, and there's some bullshit involving midi-chlorians.

I haven't read the book, mind you, but skimming through Wookieepedia has revealed that much to me.

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I liked the EU pre prequelisms being too much inserted into things, and also before Lucas actually took a hand in steering the EU, you know when he claimed it was an alternate universe to his and would like to keep them separate.

 

Lucas involvement lead to the death of characters in the novels.  But not any of the old and grey heroes from the ot.  Still having adventures in their sixties or seventies.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Bingowings said:

Imagine a PT about a the rise to power of the Emperor instead of the fall from grace of an already rather unlikable git who only really becomes interesting and fun in the three films that pre-existed it.

"I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!"

This dialogue, originally written for Anakin, would sound great coming from Sidious.

Since they're like poetry, what with the rhyming and all, I find that I only need to watch three out of the six films.

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Monolithium said:



Bingowings said:

Imagine a PT about a the rise to power of the Emperor instead of the fall from grace of an already rather unlikable git who only really becomes interesting and fun in the three films that pre-existed it.


"I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!"

This dialogue, originally written for Anakin, would sound great coming from Sidious.


True ... in the right context, anyway ... not as a cackling she-bitch ...

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DuracellEnergizer said:

 

Monolithium said:



Bingowings said:

Imagine a PT about a the rise to power of the Emperor instead of the fall from grace of an already rather unlikable git who only really becomes interesting and fun in the three films that pre-existed it.


"I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!"

This dialogue, originally written for Anakin, would sound great coming from Sidious.


True ... in the right context, anyway ... not as a cackling she-bitch ...

 

LOL.   I am SO naming my doom metal band "She-Bitch".....

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I was reading the Thrawn Trilogy again to hold me until Scoundrels is released in January.  Zahn has just released this novella prequel to Scoundrels.

 I'll be starting it in about an hour.  Review as soon as I'm finished.

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I just started re-reading the Thrawn trilogy. A close friend of mine bought me nice hardcover first printing editions of them, which are beautiful. But my god...Zahn wrote these so well. They really are terrific reads. I'm about halfway through Heir to the Empire and loving it. I never liked EU, but when it comes to Zahn...he's not perfect, but I think he gets it. Even when I liked other EU novels--even when Alan Dean Foster was writing them, and he's one of my favourite sci-fi writers--no one wrote Star Wars quite like Zahn. Is there any reason why he couldn't script Episode VII? He would hit it out of the park.

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No question about it: Zahn understands Star Wars much, much better than its creator does. Really looking forward to Scounrdrels. As far as the EU goes (most of which is unreadable), Zahn and Stackpole are easily the cream of the crop...

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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I don't think I've read anything by Zahn yet.

I've enjoyed basically everything I have read, except for Labyrinth of Evil, which seemed somewhat dry. Possibly because I'd bought it expecting to see more of Grievous... when he seemed to spend most of the novel sulking, and most of the action was centered around Obi-Wan and Anakin. Ugh, Anakin... is it sad that I just generally like him more as Darth Vader?

 

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zombie84 said:

I just started re-reading the Thrawn trilogy.....no one wrote Star Wars quite like Zahn. Is there any reason why he couldn't script Episode VII? He would hit it out of the park.

You're not alone with those thoughts, by the way.  Zahn's mentioned a few times that as soon as the Disney deal was announced he started getting asked that same question regularly.  Even if it weren't Thrawn-based, I have no doubt that the franchise would finally be in excellent hands indeed.

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walking_carpet said:

there is a video game trailer i was hoping to find on youtube but its not there.  Its hard to describe. I think it was around 2000-2002, it was for star wars galaxies.  The commercial starts off with several scenes from the game, set to the music when we first realize ben kenobi is obi-wan in SW.  there was one scene with a young girl running across a grassy field,  the music at this exact moment was the same force theme when obi-wan says "i haven't gone by the name of obiwan so before you were born.  and it absolutely captivated me in a way i wanted TPM.   not long after, i was shaking my head wondering why it was a commercial for a star wars game was more moving to me than one of the actual movies !?

someday I'll find the commercial.  lol, maybe it won't hold up as well but i'll never forget that moment when that girl was running across the field.

I could have SWORN I replied to this before, but this is likely the trailer you mean.

SWG was incredibly captivating early on; I remember just being overwhelmed be the fact that I was playing a character who was me in Star Wars and hearing the opening music of the game always gave me chills because of the potential of exploration. The idea that we could finally explore the Star Wars universe was mind boggling, and for awhile, they were on the right track. Shame it went south.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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I'm surprised that people think that Zahn is the best of the EU writers. I read a lot of EU books when I was really into Star Wars for the first time. This was probably around the time of Episode 1, and I was reading everything I could get my hands on. Eventually I began reading the New Jedi Order books, but lost interest. Then folks on this site were saying how good the Thrawn trilogy was, so I got it last year and read them, realizing partway through that I had already read them.

I know that these books basically began the EU, but I am simply bewildered that so many people say that Zahn understands Star Wars better than Lucas. Zahn never tells us anything new about the Force, doesn't really force any of the primary cast to change, and recycles much of their dialogue from the movies without insight. Thrawn and Mara Jade seemed to be the only characters that he cared about, and the books shine in their tactical and military subtleties, but that's about their only strength.

Spoilers ahead.

When it was revealed that Luke was cloned from his severed hand, and that this clone wielded the lightsaber from this hand that had fallen down the bottomless pit in Cloud City, it read like a bad fanfic. Thirteen hundred pages for a fight between yourself and your clone? Really?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

I know that these books basically began the EU, but I am simply bewildered that so many people say that Zahn understands Star Wars better than Lucas. Zahn never tells us anything new about the Force, doesn't really force any of the primary cast to change, and recycles much of their dialogue from the movies without insight. Thrawn and Mara Jade seemed to be the only characters that he cared about, and the books shine in their tactical and military subtleties, but that's about their only strength.
A lot of people judge the EU by the kind of character development you mention. To me, only the movies will ever be canon so as long as the characters feel right and the story feels like Star Wars, that's all I need.

On that basis, pretty much everything I've ever read of Zahn's feels nothing like Star Wars to me.

All I really want is each film as it was originally seen and heard in theaters; no fixes, corrections, "improvements" or modifications necessary.

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I think Neverar pretty much nailed it for me.

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^

^^

^^^

You all suck!!!

Just kidding ;)

SPOILERS:

I agree, it's a very different type of story.  To me it fits easily in the Star Wars universe, but a more thoughtful universe.  There are a number of aspects I enjoyed from the story, from the Noghri, to Thrawn, to Mara, to C'boath.  Actually, my most recent reading gave me a new appreciation for the latter.  Thrawn has been my favorite character for years; my first online handle of any sort was grandadmiral36@hotmail.com and my second was thrawn_da_man.  Dorky, I know, but no lie.  Anyway, I digress.  This last reading really revealed to me what a fascinating character an insane, ambitious Jedi would be.  He's not truly evil because he is not sane.  But he certainly is anything but good.  Instead of the obvious evil in Vader and Palpatine, there was a more suble evil, and one asks, can he be turned, can he be controlled, can he be restored to sanity?  In many ways he was far more dangerous in the long run, and his interactions with the brilliant Thrawn made his rise to power truly frightening.  There are many aspects I love about those books.  I'm honestly glad they will not become the new trilogy because they are stories best left as books, but I really did enjoy them for a variety of factors.

Oh, and Luke facing his clone was not just supposed to be the cliche found in the Adventures of Link or Spider-man.  It was reminiscent of Luke's test in the Dagobah cave, where Vader's decapitated head was really an insight into Luke's own potential darkness.  What's more, I found it to be an interesting tie-in with the duel on Cloud City and his own old saber being used against him.  I liked it.