Do you think the average citizen of the Star Wars galaxy would even be aware of the Force?

I'm guessing that to most people in the SW universe regard the Force and its followers as many on Earth regard Scientology.

georgec said:

I'm guessing that to most people in the SW universe regard the Force and its followers as many on Earth regard Scientology.

This is how I've always thought of it, but in the prequels it seems like Jedi were everywhere and running the show. Trusted and believed by the average anybody. Which makes Han's disbelief seem really stupid. 15 years before, Jedi were trusted with major political decisions and their powers and antics were known far and wide. Then suddenly monster-faced Palpatine says that the Jedi are bad and everyone goes "well, I guess they are. Why would this evil looking monster-faced guy with an obvious agenda lie to us? Let's act like we never believed in the first place!" So, Han Solo at age 30 (guessing age here) no longer believes in things that were obviously factual when he was 15. That's like saying "I don't believe that music was ever distributed in cassette tape format. I haven't seen one in over 10 years and haven't used one in over 15. The record shop sells vinyl records and CDs, so I believe there were no other formats in between."

Also, if the Scientologists could prove the truth behind their beliefs the same way the Jedi could prove their powers, we would all look at Scientologists in a very different way. So why, if there were so many Jedi around doing amazing things, would there be any unbelievers?

Also again, what are we talking about? I've been drinking quite a bit but I hope this rant at least comes close to the original subject!

DuracellEnergizer said:

My belief is that the farther from the centre of the Republic/Empire you got, the less people knew of/believed in the Jedi and their powers.

But what about Han?

Han Solo said:

Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything.

Surely he's no stranger to the central hub of activity in the galaxy and he doesn't believe.

kamalayka said:

ray_afraid said:

 

So, Han Solo at age 30 (guessing age here) no longer believes in things that were obviously factual when he was 15.

 When I was a kid, I used to have a Star Wars Ep. IV video game for Nintendo. It listed Han Solo's age as 35. When I read this I was reminded of that for some reason.

So that means he was in his 20's when the Jedi were active. Did he take a serious knock to the head and lose his memory? More evidence of the thoughtlessness that went into the prequels.

Also, I loved that Nintendo game! Shame the botched Empire so horribly. They totally change the story! You kill Boba Fett and save Han. And if I remember correctly, I believe you may in fact defeat Darth Vader (who has a machine gun) at the end!

kamalayka said:

I had a family friend who lived in Texas for a few years, and not once did he ever see a Texas Ranger.

 

I guess it depends on which version of the Force you're talking about.  Han's comment makes sense when the Force was just believing in yourself, not using horrible technological devices like targeting computers but awesome technological devices like lightsabers, and tapping into an intuition database to do impressive but still possible-through-mundane-explanations feats.  Then, yeah, on that basis, it would not only be possible to not have heard of it but to not accept that it's real.

In the sequels, once it becomes levitation, telekinesis, etc., it becomes a bit harder to rationalize it if you've happened to have seen it, but still possible to not necessarily have been introduced it to it at all.

But in the prequels, once it's all that plus high-profile war and extermination... yeah, that's a bit difficult to rationalize.

DuracellEnergizer said:

ray_afraid said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

My belief is that the farther from the centre of the Republic/Empire you got, the less people knew of/believed in the Jedi and their powers.

But what about Han?

Han Solo said:

Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything.

Surely he's no stranger to the central hub of activity in the galaxy and he doesn't believe.

Well, following the Jedi Purge, any remaining Jedi would be few and far between and in hiding. I doubt Han would have come across any in his travels.

But judging by the prequels (or at least what I remember) Jedi were everywhere and known to everyone, even those far from the center of the galaxy. Even little Annikin knew Qui-Gon was a Jedi without him having to say so. So Jedi were well known, widely believed, trusted and relied upon until Han was about 20 years old. I just can't buy that the entire galaxy would not only suddenly turn against the Jedi, but completely forget about them.

kamalayka said:

There are people who are clueless about the sorts of conflicts happening in places like Africa and the Middle East. And they live on the SAME planet!

Wow, yeah. That is a very good and very sad point.

Han Solo can’t use the force. He is not a JEDI.

So maybe he simply denied it because if he can’t use the force why bother believing in it.

No offense, but that's kinda stupid. It would be like saying "I don't know how to play the piano, so I guess I don't believe that pianos exist."

I don't know. If it were possible to travel at the speed of light across our own Milkey Way galaxy, it would take over 150,000 years just to go from one end to the other. Travelling at the speed of a NASA space shuttle would take over 300 million years to make the same trip.

A galaxy is an enormous place!

True, but remember that hyperspace-travel is apparently fast enough to permit travel clear across the galaxy. Remember these lines?

Han: "Kid, I've been from one end of this galaxy to the other."

Imperial Officer (in ESB): "If they went to lightspeed, they could be on the other side of the galaxy by now."

Akwat Kbrana said:

True, but remember that hyperspace-travel is apparently fast enough to permit travel clear across the galaxy. Remember these lines?

Han: "Kid, I've been from one end of this galaxy to the other."

Imperial Officer (in ESB): "If they went to lightspeed, they could be on the other side of the galaxy by now."

Could be a figure of speech.

I wish Star Wars (EU) mythology didn't try to tell us the full extent of the galaxy, give us detailed anthropology on various cultures, and stereotype entire species based on one character shown in the movies -  that's been a pet peeve for me.

I would much prefer mystery, slowly revealing bits and pieces of the universe, making it feel as big as it should be, as the story unfolds. Still bothers me that the trip from Tatooine to Alderaan was like 2 minutes. I can't believe it was meant to be that way.

I think it would make sense for belief in the Force to be pretty widespread, the way belief in a deity is widespread on our planet - even if plenty of people don't believe in it or don't act like they do. But I think Jedis would be very rare indeed. I think the connection with the Force made them guardians of peace and justice, rather than having great numbers. It's not like anyone was truly stunned at the notion of the Force. It was the idea that it was real and that there were people who could tap into it that people scoffed at.

Could be a figure of speech.

Maybe. Then again, maybe not. Interstellar travel between Alderaan and "remote" locations like Tatooine and Dantooine seems to go pretty quickly in Star Wars. Also, doesn't the ending of Empire depict the Rebel fleet outside the galaxy? From the ESB screenplay:

Together they stand at the large window of the medical center looking out on the Rebel Star Cruiser and a dense, luminous galaxy swirling in space. Luke puts his arm around Leia. The droids stand next to them, and Threepio moves closer to Artoo putting his arm on him. The group watches as the Millennium Falcon moves into view, makes a turn, and zooms away into space.

Specifically, the Falcon moves toward the galaxy that Luke and Leia are looking at, and since the dialogue indicates that Lando and Chewie were headed toward Tatooine, it's reasonable to infer that that galaxy is the very galaxy in which the storyline of Star Wars unfolds.

Also, Mon Mothma says in Return, "With the Imperial Fleet spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effort to engage us..." which, again, suggests that hyperdrive travel is capable of crossing vast portions of the galaxy (and even leaving the galaxy, according to the ESB ending) in a very short amount of time.

But the fleet is surrounded by stars. So, either they are looking at a galaxy within a galaxy, or they are looking at something else entirely.

Or all those "stars" are also distant galaxies. According to the screenplay, it's supposed to be a galaxy.