Which Cut?

Can anyone explain briefly the differences between the Theatrical/Director's Cut/Special Editions of the Alien series and which they think are better? Likewise with Terminator 2 and Blade Runner?

Use this thread for Q&A and discussion of other movie cuts if you like, or get in before Frink with a silly hairdo pic. Please try to label any major spoilers for those that haven't seen the movies in question.

Does anyone know of a good website that details these things?

Thanks for the link msycamore.

HotRod said:

 

doubleKO said:

Can anyone explain briefly the differences between the Theatrical/Director's Cut/Special Editions of the Alien series and which they think are better? Likewise with Terminator 2 and Blade Runner?

 

Yes

Are you 'avin' a laff?

Orange?

Alien

The "Director's Cut" of Alien isn't a true director's cut.  Ridley Scott's preferred cut is still the 1979 theatrical cut.  When Fox was getting ready to do the Quadrilogy box set, they wanted each movie to have two versions, so set about adding deleted scenes back into Alien.  They asked Scott if he'd like to do a new cut, and he agreed - not because he thought it was a good idea, but because he didn't want Fox to fuck it up.  So the "director's cut" of Alien is essentially a "what if?"-type alternate version.  It's even a minute shorter than the theatrical cut, because Scott didn't just add stuff in, he trimmed scenes to make the movie move by a bit quicker for modern audiences.

Aliens

Aliens, on the other hand, is different.  Fox thought that the cut James Cameron submitted to them was too long, and ordered that it be cut down to a specific length or shorter.  Since Cameron couldn't really say no, he went ahead and did it.  (I believe that when this happened, he wasn't done shooting the sentry gun scene yet, so that was one of the first scenes to go.)  That's the theatrical version.  The "Special Edition" of Aliens Cameron's preferred cut, essentially his Director's Cut.

Terminator 2

The story with Terminator 2 is basically the same as Aliens.

Alien³

Alien³, on the other hand, was fraught with problems from the beginning.  There were many script rewrites before and during production, and David Fincher was a new director at the time, so Fox could pretty much make him do whatever they wanted him to do.  As such, when time came to edit the movie, he got frustrated that he didn't get the footage he wanted.  After trying for a while, and getting a mostly-finished workprint done, Fox said that it was too long, and he said "fuck it" and washed his hands of the whole mess.

Fast-forward to Fox working on the Quadrilogy set.  They have the theatrical and alternate versions of Alien and Aliens, but only the theatrical cut of Alien³.  They asked Fincher if he wanted to recut it, but he said he couldn't make his preferred version without starting from scratch and re-shooting it.  So they took Fincher's last workprint and tried to essentially recreate it as best they could.  Some scenes never had ADR (dubbing) done, so they used the on-set audio and subtitled the dialogue that was hard to hear.  For the Blu-Ray set, they got Sigourney Weaver and Charles Dance to come in and ADR those scenes, so the audio is consistent throughout.  They also had to add in some new CGI to finish effects scenes that were never finished.

So neither version of Alien³ is a director's cut.  The "Assembly Cut" is the closest approximation, but it's not there.  Personally, I think the "Assembly Cut" is vastly superior to the theatrical cut, but there are those who disagree (and those who don't give a shit because they hate Alien³, though I quite like it, at least the "Assembly Cut").

Alien: Resurrection

Alien: Resurrection's alternate version is just your standard studio-made "extended cut," where they just plopped some deleted scenes back in.  I think they also recreated the original CGI opening shot of the movie, but I don't know for sure because I've only ever watched this abomination of a movie twice, and I've never seen the extended version.  I have no idea which version the director prefers, or if he was involved in the creation of the extended version or not.

Blade Runner

And finally, Blade Runner.  Erm...here we go.

Theatrical cut has bad Harrison Ford narration and a tacked-on happy ending, because the studio felt that audiences wouldn't understand the movie without the narration, and because they thought audiences wouldn't like such an ambiguous ending.  Said tacked-on ending includes outtake helicopter shots from The Shining, and generally has a radically different feel from the rest of the film.

In the early '90s, someone accidentally screened the workprint version (no happy ending and no narration except for at Batty's death; the last reel or two had temp music, too) instead of the theatrical cut.  People loved it, so that version started getting shown as the "Director's Cut" in theaters.

Seeing an opportunity, the studio asked Ridley Scott if he wanted to make a true director's cut.  He basically said he was too busy at the time, but gave them some notes on what he'd like changed.

So, the 1992(?) "Director's Cut" of Blade Runner is the US theatrical cut, minus any narration, minus the happy ending, plus a poor-quality version of Deckard's unicorn dream/vision (more a dream in this version since Deckard appears to be sleeping).

Scott was less than satisfied with this version, since none of the editing was changed after the narration was taken out and the unicorn scene wasn't quite right.

So, in the 2000's, when they were getting ready to do the Blu-Ray, Scott had time, and offered to create his own true Director's Cut.  The studio agreed, and "The Final Cut" was the result.

The Final Cut of Blade Runner features no narration; in the scenes that originally had narration, the editing is much closer to the workprint version, so there's not a bunch of pointless dead space; a few shots that were originally only in the workprint version (mainly outside the club where he finds Zhora); the properly-restored version of the unicorn vision (with Deckard being awake); no happy ending; re-done color timing throughout; and some continuity/effects fixes, such as the head of Zhora's stunt double going through the glass being replaced with the actual actress' head, the background behind Batty when you first see him replaced since it's a shot from later in the film (and Tyrell's hand on his shoulder is painted out), and - my personal favorite - the shot of the dove flying into the air at the end has been completely redone, because the original was clearly shot out in the parking lot when they realized they didn't have that shot - among other small changes like that (the wound on Deckard's cheek that appears before he gets it is erased in those shots, for instance).

So the Final Cut is Ridley Scott's true director's cut of Blade Runner, though the version billed as the "director's cut" is a close approximation.

Oh, and the International version of the theatrical cut had some particularly violent shots in it that were cut from the US theatrical version - these shots were not restored in the '92 director's cut, but were restored in the Final Cut.

So ... does that answer your questions?  Msycamore's movie-censorship.com link is a good resource for stuff like this.

Thanks CA, that was exactly what I was hoping for.

Great post, Chainsaw. I'm bookmarking that in case this question ever comes up in conversation.

So it's not orange then.

timdiggerm said:

Still no idea what to do with A:R, and I haven't seen it.

Good! Don't.

timdiggerm said:

I am so glad to see Blade Runner explained. I haven't seen any version, and the confusion was not helping. Looks like I need to see the special version of Aliens... and I guess I know how to approach Alien3 now.

Still no idea what to do with A:R, and I haven't seen it.

1. Yeah, I always recommend the Final Cut of Blade Runner to people who've never seen it.  I have my (very minor) problems with it, and some people *hate* the new color timing, but I still think it's the best available version, followed by the '92 Director's Cut.  But the Final Cut just flows better, since the editing was tightened up to accommodate the loss of narration.

2. You might have already seen the Special Edition version of Aliens - if I'm not mistaken, that's the only version that was on DVD until the Quadrilogy DVD set came out, which included the theatrical verision.  Not sure about VHS.

3. Definitely get the Blu-Ray version of the "Assembly Cut" of Alien³ if you can.  It feels like a completed film with the new ADR, whereas the DVD version of that cut has the on-set audio with subtitles and feels more like a workprint.  I wouldn't say the Assembly Cut makes it a good film, since it doesn't really address many people's basic issues with it, but I've always enjoyed Alien³ on some level, and the Assembly Cut does make it a better film.

4. Yeah, don't bother with Resurrection, it's garbage.

I sort of enjoy Resurrection in a weird way, until the reveal of the final "Alien."

A:R is of interest to Firefly fans as the crew of the Betty were the progenitors of the crew of Serenity.

One project grew out of working out the characters for the other and having them roundly screwed up by the initial production team.

Someone should do a fan edit of A:R with some of that in mind as there are some nice scenes in the last film but the tone is completely wrong.

ChainsawAsh said:

timdiggerm said:

I am so glad to see Blade Runner explained. I haven't seen any version, and the confusion was not helping. Looks like I need to see the special version of Aliens... and I guess I know how to approach Alien3 now.

Still no idea what to do with A:R, and I haven't seen it.

1. Yeah, I always recommend the Final Cut of Blade Runner to people who've never seen it.  I have my (very minor) problems with it, and some people *hate* the new color timing, but I still think it's the best available version, followed by the '92 Director's Cut.  But the Final Cut just flows better, since the editing was tightened up to accommodate the loss of narration.

I approve of Ash's recommendation of the final cut.

Though I've considered Blade Runner one of my favorite films for quite some time, I have never managed to buckle down which one was my preferred version. I've always enjoyed the international cut the most, but I much preferred the "director" cut's ending. Years ago I made myself a fan edit, splicing the DC ending to the international cut and I've just kind of gone with that since. The Final Cut is pretty good, it has most of my favorite shots in it. A few things I haven't quite warmed up to about it yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as the place for a new comer to begin at.

 

3. Definitely get the Blu-Ray version of the "Assembly Cut" of Alien³ if you can.  It feels like a completed film with the new ADR, whereas the DVD version of that cut has the on-set audio with subtitles and feels more like a workprint.  I wouldn't say the Assembly Cut makes it a good film, since it doesn't really address many people's basic issues with it, but I've always enjoyed Alien³ on some level, and the Assembly Cut does make it a better film.

I always remember preferring the theatrical for Alien 3, which I actually do enjoy as a film. But maybe that preference was based on the crappy quality of the DVD version, I honestly can't recall what I didn't like about it. Maybe it is just because the theatrical was the first I saw and I liked it well enough as is.

I'll definitely have to give the Assembly Cut another shot once I get my hands on the BDs (Alien set is at the very top of my list of BDs I'd like to own).

4. Yeah, don't bother with Resurrection, it's garbage.

I'd prefer a hybrid cut of the director's cut and final cut of Blade Runner.

The new dove and the stunt replacement were fine but changing the dialogue so that Roy says "father" and says sorry to J.F. changes the dynamic of that scene so radically that I think it undermines the whole film.

The "father" line is, in fact, one of the (again, few) problems I have with the Final Cut.  I do, however, like Roy apologizing to J.F. - I think it fits well with the emotional state we see him in during the next shot, in the elevator.

I also still have a problem with the fundamental concept behind the unicorn scene, but that's because I refuse to see Deckard as a replicant.  I feel like that undermines the whole film.

I agree about the unicorn scene too. The replicant idea kind of ruins the whole film for me.

I've heard it argued that the origami unicorn at the end doesn't make sense without the unicorn dream sequence, but prior to anyone ever seeing the unicern scene in the DC, we saw Deckard pick up the origami unicorn Gaff left and we simply assume it means Gaff has been there and let Rachel live.

My reading of it was always that Gaff let Rachel and Deckard escape, but left that there to tell Deckard that the idea that he could have a life with her is just a fantasy - either Rachel has a built-in four-year lifespan like the others, or some other blade runner will eventually catch up with them and end their "fantasy."

I read it as Gaff making a crude comment on how much of a man Deck had shown himself to be.

First he calls him chicken, then he makes a matchstick man with a hard on, then a horn of mythical stature.

captainsolo said:

I honestly think it improves on the original film's story to such a degree that the entire meaning changes.

 

That's why I have such a problem with it.

A major theme of the film - one of the reasons I love it so much - is that the replicants, the individuals who are not human, turn out to be much more human than Deckard, the human whose job it is to hunt them down.  (That's part of why I like the "I'm sorry, Sebastian" line - it humanizes Roy a bit, which is part of the point of the movie.)

This also makes the Tyrell Corp.'s slogan more relevant and chilling - "More human than human."  It's true - Batty, an artificially-created being, is more human than Deckard, a human.

But all of that gets thrown out the window if Deckard's a replicant, too.  It destroys one of the core themes of the film, one of the themes I latched onto so strongly.