Religion — Page 9

Akwat Kbrana said:

You keep trying to discredit Islam with an inherent assumption/belief that Christianity is "correct".

Where did you get that idea? Can you find a single sentence of mine in this thread that says anything to that effect? I'm not trying to credit or discredit any religion. My interest is in allowing each religion to speak for itself, rather than forcing them all into a conceptual straightjacket with a priori decrees such as, "These three religions worship the same God." My argument is simply that if you allow each religious community to define its own terms, you will find that their three disparate conceptions of God are incompatible with one another.

Rather than assuming that any particular religion is correct, I think the error is in presuming that none are true (or that it doesn't matter).

It becomes a literary exercise if we observe only how differently each conception is from one another and then declare them "different gods" based on how irreconcilable they appear to be. That is a sterile exercise.

If, on the other hand, we accept the existence of a deity (for the purpose of debate) and inquire whether each religion in question is worshiping that deity, we are required to consider how the conceptions fit with another. To do otherwise delimits God (ie the god concept), a priori. The idea of irreconcilability does matter in terms of whether one is 'doing it right,' but I don't think that's what we're arguing.

Forgive the blasphemous illustration which follows. If someone accepts the gist of the Bible but believes Lucifer is actually the good guy and that Jehovah promulgated a distorted view of events because he's just that evil (ie the true deity is the one perceived as "Satan"). To this end, such a satanist develops all kinds of ideas about what is true and what is false in the bible and supplements it with his own 'revelations.'

That view is not at all reconcilable (in the sense you've been using the word) with Christianity. Worshiping "Satan" is not the same as worshiping "God" but the mere fact that these views are irreconcilable is not evidence that different beings are worshiped or that the satanist believes in a different "Jehovah." It's not like, "oh, that John Smith." A different perception of a being does not mean it is in fact a different being. That is the error I see in your approach.

georgec has a better grasp on historical and textual elements than I do. As he points out, the religions in question reference the same historical events and revelations.

CP3S said:

...

 

Sorry I'm not discussing on Islam and Christian writtings. I guess I'm just different. Certainly I'd look like an atheist for the people you're discussing about in this thread.

So sad.

This sentence doesn't make much sense. I am trying to figure out what you mean by it. Care to give it another go?

...

 It just seemed to me that there was like... a slight manifestation... like if I was hijacking the discussion from the comparisons of the different writtings (Bible, Coran...) which thread is mostly about currently.

I see a thread about Religions, I'm posting thoughts and sometimes reactions, and I even joke about it. Simple as that. So for another go: sorry if I'm not especially reacting to posts, ignoring the most part of this "serious" discussion... I feel it's not good to remain attached to ideas.

Bruce Lee used to take the best of every martial arts to polish his own one, and he was a good philosopher. A lot of people nowadays approach religions that way, so they don't stay stuck because of writtings (or even just opinions !) and "believers" don't feel forced to obey something they don't understand - *ie* wrong interpretations or distorted translations of sacred texts. Free research.

Other countries have different ideas of who Santa Claus is and what he does every year during the Christmas season....but he's still the same guy under different names. Right?

How can people see three major religions all follow the first 5 books from the Old Testament and say they are talking about a different God? I think some of you guys are really trying to split hairs here.

I know all there are fundamentally different, but they all branched from the God of Abraham. Doesn't mean one is better than the other, just means they are all talking about the same dude even if they can't agree about his characteristics (which in my atheist mind makes sense since the guy they are arguing about is made up).

Edit: Didn't see the next page. Looks like I'm a little late to the party.

Warbler said:

walkingdork said:

 (which in my atheist mind makes sense since the guy they are arguing about is made up).

 

in your opinion.

Correct. "in my [atheist] mind" is just how I see it.

Warbler said:

walkingdork said:

 (which in my atheist mind makes sense since the guy they are arguing about is made up).

 

in your opinion.

 "God" , *ie* the highest Idea religions are founded on you're discussing here is a guy now ?!!!

... A big one with a long white beard who's sitting on a cloud ?...

Dad says:

 I find that Off Topic section totally unmoderated !...

 

Bingowings said:

walkingdork said:

Other countries have different ideas of who Santa Claus is and what he does every year during the Christmas season....but he's still the same guy under different names. Right?

Yep, Odin        ...or Wotan

 ... Or Coca-Cola.

XyZ said:

Warbler said:

walkingdork said:

 (which in my atheist mind makes sense since the guy they are arguing about is made up).

 

in your opinion.

 "God" , *ie* the highest Idea religions are founded on you're discussing here is a guy now ?!!!

... A big one with a long white beard who's sitting on a cloud ?...

This guy??

... Here's some good matter to think about the... Origin of life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMk0estzXc

This guy cracks me up.

^ Well done. Maybe my 1st post in that dangerous part of the fora.

... At a time when TV's Frink had maybe only 100 shy posts in his counter... The kind of silly discussions which turned you to the silly side once for all. Before your Empire.

Yes, Ric and I are your fathers !

As we divorced I suggest you come home for the week ends and you go with your other father for the rest of the week... Alright ?

... I laughed a lot reading a few pages and then gave myself a headache... mostly after the "whiskey" episode.

TheBoost said:

walkingdork said:

 

How can people see three major religions all follow the first 5 books from the Old Testament and say they are talking about a different God? I think some of you guys are really trying to split hairs here.

 

Splitting hairs is what religion is about.

How else can Anglicans have killed Catholics and vice-versa. They're like the same religion! Mahayana and Theravada Buddhists have murdered eachother over right teaching. Look what Protestants did the Mormons. Hell, SOUTHERN Baptists don't like regular Baptists.

You draw a line (for example, transubstantiaton) and burn anyone who crosses it.

*nods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwXrcz-F9M

Warbler said:

Moth3r said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwXrcz-F9M

*sigh*

sigh, indeed. They don't make 'em like they used to.

;)