The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 239

Good idea Gobalicious, and nice video Davnes.

Maybe Palpatine's shuttle arriving is the reason why Obi-Wan just leaves Anakin to burn? When the movie first came out, many disliked that Obi-Wan just left Anakin there to burn, and it still comes off as kind of cruel. But what if he saw Palpatine's ship arriving and he knew he had to get the hell out of there? The scene would need to be tweaked a little, but it might work.

SilverKey said:

Good idea Gobalicious, and nice video Davnes.

Maybe Palpatine's shuttle arriving is the reason why Obi-Wan just leaves Anakin to burn? When the movie first came out, many disliked that Obi-Wan just left Anakin there to burn, and it still comes off as kind of cruel. But what if he saw Palpatine's ship arriving and he knew he had to get the hell out of there? The scene would need to be tweaked a little, but it might work.

That was the whole point.

I wish there were some way to tie Anakin's survival to his desire to "stop people from dying."  I think if the story could be altered so that instead of protecting Padme he were simply seeking greater power, including immortality, then it would make for a more believable fall to the Dark Side.  That is what Palpatine is offering after all.  His survival here could be his greatest success.  In spite of his body's destruction, he does indeed survive.

Tying Darth Ender's point with the larger idea of Obi-Wan leaving Anakin for dead, I think it would be better to have Anakin actually "die." He just suddenly falls silent or something. Obi-Wan leaves, and Palpatine/the armor brings Anakin back to life later on.

Nice video! I wonder if it'd be possible/worth it to have Obi actively attacked/pursued, rather like the Falcon's escape from Cloud City...?

The Concierge said:

Nice video! I wonder if it'd be possible/worth it to have Obi actively attacked/pursued, rather like the Falcon's escape from Cloud City...?

It would be hard.  It's already bad enough that Obi-Wan shows no urgency when trying to leave.  But maybe an exciting John Williams cue could do wonders.  Imagine the Falcon escaping without the music.  Boring.

Davnes007 said:

fishmanlee said:

So do like I said, flip the entire video in "Vegas".

Actually...you're right. - I won't let FOX win.

I've now mirrored the whole video.

http://youtu.be/Yu6P2GXa4u0

I didn't want to redo the my title 'sequence'...but I did it.

 

Yeah, that's really good.  I think I would have cut most of Obi-Wan walking up to the ship and just open with C3PO on the platform.

There's also this deleted scene from the trailer that could be used to establish that Palpatine's coming right away.  It's of his ship arriving at Coruscant, but the planet could easily be changed to Mustafar.  I don't know if it exists in high quality though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G1gRexyd7g

Yeeaahhh, I'd imagine there'd be some hardcore rotoscoping, possibly cg stunt doubles for obi and clones, plus more for any ensuing space fight. Lotta work for not much added...?

No hardcore rotoscoping please, this is a family site.

Scandalous! I really need to get my mind outta the gutter...!

I know in ROTJ Jerjerrod pouts for more men but has anyone considered reprogramming all those abandoned battledroids to build Imperial Stardestroyers and ultimately the Death Star at the end of ROTS.

It seems a shame to waste them.

Hello, everyone! This is my first post on OT.com, but you may have seen me on fanedit as Infamous TC. I'm a fanfiction author, best known in the Harry Potter fandom. I was actually drawn into the world of fanediting by ADigitalMan's Extended Editions of the HP movies. I feel I have a very strong grasp of storytelling, and the story is my chief complaint about the Prequel trilogy. I have seen the Red Letter Media reviews and was very grateful to finally have so much of what bothered me condensed to 60 minutes.

This thread is a very long slough, but I made it through all 239 pages. There's a lot of great ideas. Someone buy Angel a copy of Vegas so he can learn to fanedit. I would suggest (respectfully) that there are not enough truly radical and yet practical ideas. I would like to state for the record that the following idea was conceived before I read through this entire thread, though certain refinements have been made based on discussion here.

The problem with Ep1 is that there are too many interconnected plots. They need to be separated. I suggest cutting out all of the Naboo plot entirely and make the story the discovery of Anakin.

Qui-Gon senses a vergence in the Force. He heads off to Tattooine (either with the blessing of the Council, without the blessing of the Council, or without their knowledge at all) with his apprentice Obi-Wan.

At the same time, the Sith have also detected the vergence, and Sidious sends Maul to investigate.

Qui-Gon discovers Anakin, but he is unable to persuade Watto to sell the boy. Setup for the podrace and have the stakes be Anakin's freedom. This could also be one of the other ideas I've seen here where Qui-Gon sees the human boy podracing and figures out this is who he came to find.

Podrace. Anakin wins, and thus earns his own freedom.

Deleted probe droid sequence. Duel between Qui-Gon and Maul.

Return to Coruscant. Anakin before the Jedi Council. He will not be trained.

Maul returns to Coruscant and tries to steal Anakin, setting up the Duel of the Fates. It will not longer be incongruous to fight in this setting, as it will be on Coruscant now.

Maul kills Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan kills Maul, and nobody knows what's going on with the Sith.

Obi-Wan promoted to Jedi Knight, and he takes Anakin as his apprentice. I actually really like the idea I saw in the thread of this being without the approval of the council, thus making his fall more of Obi-Wan's fault.

Roll credits.

The problem with Ep2 is that the whole assassination plot is just plain dumb. I won't rehash why. My Muse has suggested the following:

(begin crawl)

The Galactic Republic is Crumbling. Former Jedi Count Dooku rails against the corruption, and more star systems join his Separatist movement every day. Both sides are beating the drums of war.

Queen Padme Amidala is a staunch supporter of the Republic, but her home planet of Naboo lies close to rebellious systems. The Trayd Federation has just severed all diplomatic ties, and their ships are on the move.

The Jedi Council is overwhelmed with trying to keep peace in the Republic. A mysterious message from the past contains coordinates that do not match any known system. Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi has been assigned to investigate.

(end crawl)

Open with the ships of the Trayd Federation invading Naboo.

Communications disruption. Invasion.

Gungun battle.

Queen Amidala escapes. Use the palace scenes from the end to simulate getting to the ship. I can use "We've got to get to that hangar!" from Episode II here to non-stupid effect. Blast off and run the blockade.

Obi-Wan is instructed to get to the bottom of the message, which is from Master Sifa-Dias and contains the coordinates of Kamino. He determines that there's no such system, but he trusts in the Force and goes off anyway. No stupid kids with stupid lightsabers!

Obi-Wan lands on Kamino and discovers the army and reports back. Jango Fett plays no part in the plot now, so I will cut him entirely.

Coruscant. Palpatine's office. Dooku is a political idealist. Imply that he is behind the invasion of Naboo rather than the assassination attempt.

Amidala addresses the Senate and reports the fall of Naboo. I can use a mix of her address in Episodes I and II here. She calls for a vote of no confidence.

Anakin is ordered to guard Queen Amidala. Vacation!

Obi-Wan investigates the Separatists and discovers the droid army.

Anakin and Padme fall in love. Most of the dialogue will need to go, but some lines are okay. It is meant to seem quick, a passionate mistake. No more rejection, and no more whininess to deserve rejection.

Palpatine elected. Senator Jar-Jar Binks proposes Emergency Powers.

Obi-Wan reports. I was planning on cutting the visit to Tatooine entirely, but I sorta like the idea of just cutting the slaughter of the Sand People. A&P go to Geonosis to help Obi-Wan. No factory scene. Imply that they arrive at the same time as the Republic.

Clones attack, using heavily trimmed bits of the latter droid/clone battle, then some of the arena battle. Cut directly to the hangar bay and Dooku trying to escape.

Dooku duels Obi-Wan and Anakin and escapes. No Yoda-saber-flipping.

Anakin and Padme married in secret.

Anakin promoted to Jedi Knight.

I don't have specific ideas for Ep3 yet, but I would definitely have Dooku as a rogue Jedi. I would also keep Padme's pregnancy secret even from Anakin. I would cut the birth of Vader, the birth of the twins, the Yoda-Palpatine duel, and the Death Star fanservice. 

Thoughts?

Some of my ideas (which I'm sure have been posted a thousand times):

I believe that the fighters for all of the Prequel Films (Naboo fighters of course) should look different.

The Trade Federation Fighters should be blatant predecessors of the TIE Fighters in both design and sound. Something that could justify the Empire switching to real Pilots compared to a computer is that the TFF crashed with high frequency/didn't have good aim.  

The X-Wing Fighters should be the main ones for the Republic, and should be seen in the Battle of Geonosis and Coruscant. They should fly smoother than they do in the OT as they're newer and aren't as damaged as they are later on. 

Jedi should have their own definitive type of space craft. In my personal opinion the fighters they used in Revenge of the Sith would work just fine for both Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. It seems either of the ones shown in film would work though.

Actually, I have to say I would change all of the space ships in the Prequel Trilogy to some degree.

For one, I believe that the Trade Federation Space Stations should both look more ominous and be more prominent throughout the films. I want all of the films to have more of a feeling of consistency and that would add quite a bit in my opinion. However, I feel that there should only be one big space station throughout The Phantom Menace. That's the first time the Trade Federation is involved in any kind of war, and they wouldn't exactly how to handle it yet. As time goes on, this Space Station model becomes more Prominent with each film. In Attack of the Clones, the Separatists are preparing for a full scale war so they would be stock piling on these. In Revenge of the Sith, I would make them the one of the only two Separatist space ships in the entire beginning battle. Not only because it makes them more prominent in the battle, but so we actually have an idea of how big the battle is and what ship is on what side.

The other Separatist ship in the battle would be Grevious's flagship during the Battle of Coruscant, where Palpatine is being kept. I feel that the PT should have it's own Executor which is just as ominous as the actual one from the OT. This could be a ship that Darth Sidious is using, one that appears in every PT battle and is only used when needed. For example, in an extremely edited version, this could be used to rescue to transport Darth Maul to Naboo, evacuate the Separatist leaders on Geonosis, and then be the main space ship in the Battle of Coruscant.

Finally, I feel that the gigantic ships used by the Republic in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith should be an amalgamation of the ones used in Revenge of the Sith, and the Star Destroyers of the OT. The basic design of the Revenge of the Sith should still be intact, but the deflector shields could be of the OT Star Destroyers.

I have a lot more to add, but it's 1:06 and I'm tired.

Dethryl, I really like your ideas to the plot changes of episode 1 and 2.  I'm going to think about your Episode 2 thoughts some more since a lot of those ideas would work with what I've been brainstorming.  

I've also been following some of the other Episode 3 edits over the past few months (Aalenfae, BobGarcia, theCutter) with great interest as again, a lot of the same thoughts have been going through my head in the past decade...  (I just don't have the skill to pull off what they're doing, ha)

Here is a very, very brief summary of my ideas for the sequels mixed with some other thoughts I've seen around: 

(All of these ideas were made with the assumption I could not re-cast Anakin and Padme and re-shoot entire scenes... so to work with what we have currently available - otherwise I have some different ideas...)

Episode 1:

George Lucas' episode 2.  (Radical enough?  ;P)  (GL's Episode 1 is so bad I don't see a point in saving it as a narrative.  What really happens we would need to keep?  It then can be used cut up for other sequence fillers for the rest of the trilogy)  

Anakin is just a young Jedi in training; however, he and Padme have been having a secret "friendship" since a chance meeting earlier in both of their lives.  (Still a need for a chosen one prophecy at all?)  There is a Separatist faction growing amongst the Republic and the Republic feels the strain of a possibility of war.  (All semi-explained in the title crawl)

I feel the story starting this way semi-mimics Luke in A New Hope.  Both Luke and Anakin are not fully happy with where they are in life, there is backstory to their character that we don't have all the details, they're both a little whiny, it just fits.

The main plot line would be how Anakin and Padme's relationship develops, followed by the Separatist subplot/creation of Clone army.  This ends with Anakin and Padme's secret marriage on Naboo.

Episode 2: 

First half of GL's Episode 3.  The main plot would be Anakin's relationship with Palpatine and his subsequent fall to the dark side.  Slow and deliberate manipulation by Palaptine.  (add in a some of the deleted scenes) My initial thought was to keep his fall over trying to save Padme from death - the dream Anakin had was planted by Palpatine to force Anakin to seek out more power.

This ends with Mace's death and Anakin's "birth" as Darth Vader.  The subplot would be Obi-wan hunting down Grievous.

Episode 3:

Second half of GL's Episode 3.  The main plot would be Darth Vader's hunting down of the Jedi and the end of the clone wars.  (Separatists killed or just a mention of loss - similar to how the Senate is dissolved in Episode 4)  The subplot would be the creation of the Empire and the creation of the Rebellion mirroring each other.  (again, add in deleted scenes)

This would end with the Mustafar battle and Padme being taken to Alderaan to give birth.  The kids are split up to prevent Vader from sensing their presence too easily, Obi takes Luke to Tatooine.

In a very small nutshell, that's been my idea ever since I saw Episode 3 on opening day.  GL's Episode 3 should have been Episodes 2-3...

Some details here and there:

-The Anakin and Padme relationship develops "behind the scenes" even though it's the main plot of my Episode 1.  What I mean is that it wouldn't seem so forced and in the audience's face.  Some of their Naboo scenes would be dubbed over with Obi-wan, Mace, and Yoda's worries about Anakin.  That way a lot of the horrible dialogue and delivery can be swept away but you still see Anakin and Padme's love blossoming through their interactions.

-The fall of Anakin in my Episode 1-2 would be very painful for him and the audience needs to connect with and feel his mental debate and confusion.  He is very much a tragic character that is being slowly influenced and twisted by Palpatine.  Do away with as much whiny Anakin as possible.  Anakin's fall needs to be about persuasion and a choice he doesn't want to make.

-Yoda never even having a lightsaber in the prequels is a good thing.  After all, his ally is the force, and a powerful ally it is...  I'm not opposed to Yoda fighting, but he needs to emanate power and confidence when he does so, using the force.  ie: Clone troopers force pushed dozens of yards back with a simple move of his hand.

-Obi-wan and Anakin duel trimmed to not be ridiculous or overdone (theatrical state - it's both) - but still needs to be emotionally charged.

-Something I would love to see, is the return of the Yoda and Palpatine confrontation.  But not in it's current form...  I was told that in the books, the Emperor was tossing buildings and ships at Yoda filled with innocent people.  Yoda doesn't lose the fight so much as he retreats in order to save innocent life.  Whether or not this happens in the books is irrelevant to me as it would fit with the main understanding that the Dark side is NOT stronger, but instead is 'less' power unrestrained.  The fact that Yoda loses in the theatrical Episode 3 shows that even after 900 years of training, a Light side user isn't as powerful as a few decade old (assuming) Dark side user...  I want to see that Yoda could have easily taken Palpatine if he was willing to sacrifice innocent lives but instead makes a conscience decision to back off.  (Han Solo and Leia being tortured in ESB is not the same as they weren't necessarily "innocent" - or maybe Yoda learns from his fight with the Emperor that you sometimes need to sacrifice?)  Yoda not even trying to fight Palpatine or LOSING to him completely negates any power Yoda is supposed to project to the audience.

Anyway, those are a few of my ideas (there are more, but this is long enough).  If anyone would like to collaborate on a project like this, I'm willing!  I can edit if a CG artist out there is bored  ;)  Just know I have 3 kids under 2.5 so anything I work on will take time - if any editor wants to give these ideas a shot on their own, go for it!  I'm still in the brainstorming stage of my edits anyway, getting all the loopholes sorted out...

Dethryl said:

...but I would definitely have Dooku as a rogue Jedi...

Thoughts?

(Sorry for the double post, but this is a separate issue so I wanted to separate them)

I saw the idea elsewhere on this site, so it's not my own, but I loved it.  (not sure what of the following, if any, is my idea, but want to give credit elsewhere just in case - the general idea is definitely not mine)

Dooku is a rogue Jedi, and actually not corrupt at all, (however, presented to the audience as bad in the beginning, an unknown entity) who senses the Sith in the Senate.  Dooku tries to warn the Jedi Council of this corruption but they don't sense it.  So, Dooku leaves the Order and then decides to (either of his own volition or by the influence of Palpatine - it doesn't even have to be defined though) start a Separatist faction that could battle the Senate and rid the Sith corruption from the Senate.  

Basically Dooku's speech to Ob-wan on Geonosis is true, and Dooku is on the right side.

Now, how much of his character has changed being a Rogue Jedi and no longer under the Order, is up for debate.  I think he would be a man who has had to make his own rules and rethink his beliefs after years of being "brainwashed" - from his point of view.  He would be a little impulsive, untrusting of any Jedi, yet reserved and contemplative at the same time.  Is the entire Jedi Order under the influence of the Sith?  How long has this been going on?  Is the Jedi Order in and of itself, evil and manipulative?  How much of his own training can he trust in?  These are the debates that would be constantly waging war in his own mind.

I would also have Dooku's lightsaber not be red...  this sort of man wouldn't adopt that color.  He might change his original to show his distancing from the Order, but not to red.  If it would be remotely applicable and accepted anywhere, purple COULD be used in this instance, however I'm still on the fence about that particular color.  And hey, this is the radical ideas thread  :)

I think having a Jedi with a red lightsaber IS a pretty radical idea. The audience is not so simplistic that is needs these visual cues. Best part of the EU is that Leia has a red lightsaber.

Dethryl said:

I think having a Jedi with a red lightsaber IS a pretty radical idea. The audience is not so simplistic that is needs these visual cues. Best part of the EU is that Leia has a red lightsaber.

Absolutely, I will agree that a Jedi having a red lightsaber is a very radical idea for a fanedit. 

Personally, however, I am a fan of these visual cues, even such simplistic ones.  It would solidify his character to the audience at the end of the movie and show that it's tragic the good guys are fighting "another good guy" without having to say it again.  If he whipped out a red lightsaber, the average Star Wars audience member would think, "Oh, maybe he was bad this whole time..."  Then their Star Wars guru friend (everyone has one) would have to explain that just because it's red it doesn't mean he's bad... 

On that note, hypothetically, if you would keep the Episode 2 Geonosis arena with all of the Jedi, would you change some of their saber colors to red as well?  Would it be a normal choice at that point for Jedi or would it be something rare in the films, to see a Jedi with a red lightsaber (during this period in the Republic)?  I know the movies pretty well, but almost nothing of the EU so I don't know the details behind having red over the others - just curious.

Having said all that, fanedits aren't exactly for the average Star Wars audience member, are they, and this is the radical ideas thread...  ;)

Your Rogue Jedi idea for Dooku; is it similar to what I remember reading before/wrote above or was it something different?  I'd like to hear more about that if you have thought about it some more.