Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 27

darth_ender said:

Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage).  It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.

 

So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene.  Let me argue for it one more time.  If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's.  We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we.  But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor).  This does not capture the right emotions then.  If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit.  Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it.  If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts.  UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.

Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead?  I really think the logic is quite sound.

Could we bring up the vote to get rid of ghost Anakin altogether again? I really think my logic as to why was incredibly sound.

Although I wouldn't be as much against Anakin just showing up at the pyre ONLY IF he disappeared shortly after he appears.

Jaitea said:

Yes definitely, what ship?

Heres a Mon Cal ship downloaded from scfi3d. a few minutes ago.....quickly lit and rendered

J

Wow, that's pretty good.  See, I honestly know very little about how these special effects are pulled off.  Here is the post of all Johannus's models. I figure it would be easier to film the Executor model and add texture than to build a complete studio-size or 3D model.  

I'm wondering how hard it would be to composite that 7 inch model into this shot:

Then digitally add texture to give it a similar level of realism?

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage).  It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.

 

So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene.  Let me argue for it one more time.  If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's.  We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we.  But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor).  This does not capture the right emotions then.  If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit.  Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it.  If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts.  UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.

Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead?  I really think the logic is quite sound.

Could we bring up the vote to get rid of ghost Anakin altogether again? I really think my logic as to why was incredibly sound.

Although I wouldn't be as much against Anakin just showing up at the pyre ONLY IF he disappeared shortly after he appears.

I know Aalenfae's mockup included a quick appearance and disappearance, which I personally like as well.  I find the logic to your not including him sound as well, and I really mulled the idea over in my head.  I'm not looking at the votes at the moment, though I know it didn't pass.  Keep discussing it, and maybe we can run it by the group again.  I guess the logic is there, but considering the nature of the movie and the hope of ending it on a high note, I preferred showing him truly redeemed.  Again, allow me to say that your logic is quite sound.

Hey, in the end, if we do end up removing him from the party scene and including him in the pyre scene, it would not be hard for you to simply include the original pyre scene instead and never see his ghost.  Like we've said many times, if someone's ideas don't end up making the edit, they can take what they want from here and simply make whatever changes they desire.  But either way, I think we can put it up for a second vote if you really want.  We've got several new participants now.

Geez, look at my ignorance.  I just checked out scifi3d.com, and that has so many cool 3d models.  That would certainly save a lot of time for those doing 3d animations.  I'm truly excited about all this.  That may be the way to go, but I don't know anything.  I think the greatest skill I've provided to this project is organization.

Yeah there's heaps there....some good...some not so good, the only request they make is the model makers get their credit in the production.

It just so happens that the Mon Cal ship is well textured.....Super Star Destroyer....not so

J

Well, at least it's a building block to work with for the CGI crew.  I imagine it can be improved upon.

Rough mock-up:

J

timdiggerm said:

That is one big shuttle

I evoke Standing Order Wobbly Hand and claim my $5:

As for my Bothan scenario, I'm not that keen on it myself.

I was asked for an idea along those lines and it was the best and fan filmable thing that I could come up with.

I thought it would add weight to the currently disembodied weighty line Mon Mothma delivers in the briefing if the many Bothan's who died weren't just the spies.

It might work better if the Captain was someone of significance but seeing as all the big heroes are on Dagobah or Tatooine (depending on what editing decisions are finally made for Luke's first scene) and Wedgy Lawson is beyond our powers to rejuvenate and hire.

Adding a previously unknown side hero to the mix was the best I could come up with.

Though the same guy or gal could be also added to the briefing and become a fighter pilot in the final battle so we have the potential there of building up the rank of recognisable characters.

darth_ender said:

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage).  It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.

 

So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene.  Let me argue for it one more time.  If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's.  We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we.  But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor).  This does not capture the right emotions then.  If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit.  Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it.  If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts.  UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.

Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead?  I really think the logic is quite sound.

Could we bring up the vote to get rid of ghost Anakin altogether again? I really think my logic as to why was incredibly sound.

Although I wouldn't be as much against Anakin just showing up at the pyre ONLY IF he disappeared shortly after he appears.

I know Aalenfae's mockup included a quick appearance and disappearance, which I personally like as well.  I find the logic to your not including him sound as well, and I really mulled the idea over in my head.  I'm not looking at the votes at the moment, though I know it didn't pass.  Keep discussing it, and maybe we can run it by the group again.  I guess the logic is there, but considering the nature of the movie and the hope of ending it on a high note, I preferred showing him truly redeemed.  Again, allow me to say that your logic is quite sound.

Hey, in the end, if we do end up removing him from the party scene and including him in the pyre scene, it would not be hard for you to simply include the original pyre scene instead and never see his ghost.  Like we've said many times, if someone's ideas don't end up making the edit, they can take what they want from here and simply make whatever changes they desire.  But either way, I think we can put it up for a second vote if you really want.  We've got several new participants now.

Oh geez guys, c'mon. Let Luke see his Dad. Honestly, if Anakin's ghost is removed I'll be heartbroken. 

Yeah let's see the real Anakin though, not that wonky looking weirdo wearing Seb Shaw's body like a meat tuxedo.

Bingo, I hope you're not offended about anything.  I frankly like the idea, as I like many of the suggestions.  But as you point out, it is difficult to work with, one way or another.

So Bingo, since you were gone when the topic came up, what do you think of moving the real Anakin to the pyre scene?

Jaitea, that really is pretty good.  It's true, the shuttle would probably have to be smaller or the Executor larger, but you've convinced me it can be done fairly easily.  Thanks for taking the time to showing me :)

I guess this leaves the question: when should we use physical models and when should we CGI models?

My take is that the party at the end is the last time we see all our friends and the original set up works fine if you keep the party.

He burns the last of Vader and at the party Luke has bitter sweet feelings because even though the Rebels have won the war, his mentors aren't there.

Then Ben and Yoda turn up and finally his Dad as the icing on the cake.

It completes Luke's journey.

If you take out the party and the galactic celebrations introduced in 1997 and 2004 then you can just end with the fire and Luke looking up into space and the credits.

Having Anakin on his own doesn't really work because though he was Luke's biological Father, he was raised by Owen and illumined by Ben and Yoda.

So Luke's dad is really a sort of trinity (seeing as Owen can't come back as a ghost).

Oh God.....Sci-Fi 3D has some fantastic models...I am especially intrigued by the Non-Cannon ships.

http://www.scifi3d.com/list.asp?intGenreID=10&intCatID=31

Anyone think that all those Jedi Stafighter concepts would be good for that "more varied" Rebel Fleet idea?

Had we talked about moving the fire after the celebration?  It would be an interesting experiment, but it may be too anti-climatic after the big party.

It's a real shame Luke's questions about his mother don't come to anything much.

The whole saga starts with Luke wanting to know about his father and the saga ends with him only mentioning his mother once and it contradicts what we see in the prequels.

Ronster said:

Angel said:

Ronster said:

And I would also like a bit of dog fight action like from ANH especially with the Targeting HUD Graphics it would make it feel a bit more  like the original and TBH I think this is one of the main things missing

Just to add that ROTJ has already reused footage from ANH in terms of cockpit shots. The already cheap production got cheaper. Always welcome to see something new.

-Angel

Well not once do we go inside a Tie-Fighter Either surely that's got to change too? The Tie Fighter Cockpits were just cool the with the hexagon window so cinematic.... A real opportunity lost also in my opinion That would help dog-fight action too I guess with the black strormtrooper flyboys and a bit of review window to boot. Obviously what's going on outside the window will be different but you get the idea

I know Adywan used some shot of a TIE pilot from behind.  I don't remember where he got the shot, but it was cool.  That sort of thing is so brief that you could reuse it here, and even flip it.  With a different view outside the cockpit, few would notice. Also, the generic-looking TIE pilot shots from the front could probably be reused for brief clips in ROTJ without looking obvious.  Good call, Ronster.

Angel, I never noticed any reused cockpit shots.  The only reused material I've ever seen is when the stormtroopers and TIE pilots are scurrying through the halls of the Death Star after the Executor crashes and the point where the gunners are preparing to fire the superlaser.

NOTE: I wrote this earlier and saved it as a draft and forgot to submit it, but I think it's still worth saying.

Angel, that looks interesting.  Perhaps something like that could be used for the all-out assault on the Executor we're going to create.

We did talk about ending the film with the pyre scene.  It won the recent vote and worked surprisingly well in Spence's edit.  Though it is in a sense, anticlimactic, it seems to be more of an emotional farewell to the Star Wars universe.  Bingo, I see what you mean, though I'd have a hard time parting with the celebrations too.  Check out a version of Spence's edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKY_2XG-KU

I don't know how old that is, but I think it gives a decent idea (clearly we wouldn't follow it exactly, from Vader's death straight to celebrations, but as you can see, the transition works pretty well IMO.

Well, I never noticed that.  To me it goes to show that one can get away with subtle reuses (including flipped footage).  You just have to disguise it well.

MrInsaneA said:

Oh God.....Sci-Fi 3D has some fantastic models...I am especially intrigued by the Non-Cannon ships.

 

http://www.scifi3d.com/list.asp?intGenreID=10&intCatID=31

Anyone think that all those Jedi Stafighter concepts would be good for that "more varied" Rebel Fleet idea?

A 3d Hounds Tooth is up there also on that link.... Which completly makes my idea of the plans being handed over do-able... Not sure about the quality of the model but looks good in the picture... The Idea did get voted to hand over the plans and like Darth Ender has his version I have mine... But when I saw that the Hounds tooth is up for grabs free well I nearly wet my pants... And theres a Bossk CG Head to boot!!!

I think the 1st Cargo craft also in your link should be included in the establishing shots of DSII they would fit in very nicely... Making it more believeable and they look kind of empire like also.

I looked at the rebel ships and basically it's all there really everything I mean, those models if good enough have slashed the workload down massivly if they are at a good enough standard. My only concern is that can they be made to look used or dilapadated, aged say if they look too shiny and new they wont fit.

There is loads of Tattooine stuff also it is a great resource pool indeed good find well done Jaitea

Angel said:

darth_ender said:

I know Adywan used some shot of a TIE pilot from behind. 

 

Angel, I never noticed any reused cockpit shots.  

 

The only reused material I've ever seen is when the stormtroopers and TIE pilots are scurrying through the halls of the Death Star after the Executor crashes and the point where the gunners are preparing to fire the superlaser.

Its from a fan film called Star Wars Revelations

The live action cockpits/props are the same as ANH. You can notice that they have the trench X white schematic on the bottom and not only that but its flipped and rised.

that doesnt count tho on the back of the Xwing. It seems each movie gets more complex and bulkier. Possible upgrades?

The Stormtrooper running are indeed from ANH but outakes.

-Angel

Can't you see Wedge pimped his ride up with a decent Valve Sub-Woofer and surround sound system.... The guy needs to let others know he is the business....

In case you missed the link I'll re-post it I did a comms chatter mock-up on the lost rebels voices there are a few usable lines but bear in mind we could add this effect to any audio dub and would also work so again more artistic license.... It's only rough and I could manipulate anything much further than this for the desired effect anyway link below

http://www.mediafire.com/?dlbh511a6r2a808

I would love to do some of the sound effects for the edit and I hope you feel I could pull it off. The problem with the audio in these shots is that there is alot of background noise so it's not a pure source, but anyway if you wanted to give me a couple of lines to do I would play with it.

For instance this is Darth_Enders Voice Manipulated again the sound of your car in the background but it does not sound like you anymore he heh

http://www.mediafire.com/?ou1n89q8x7aa6qe

I saw Spence's edit a couple of times to give him some feedback.

Obviously his scenario hinges on not being on the final confrontation not being on the Death Star.

Which reminds me of another classic wishlist idea of having a surprise Death Star at the Battle, which Piett deliberately rams when his fleet is being decimated by the station fires willy nilly at the general area of the two converging fleets.

Two Death Stars was a feature of early drafts of the film and having Luke taken to the unseen other station would spice up the ending. It would also show the that not all the Imperials were totally evil which is a firm foundation for the peace that follows victory.

Has anyone linked this thread into the wishlist thread yet because it would be a shame to lose any ideas introduced here when reading from over there.