I think it works.
It fits the idiom of the crawls and just ramps up the threat level to mauve.
Bingowings said:
I'm still keen on this scenario.
It give the nerds their Boba love but also gives the guy his dignity back, not to mention his job.
I'll check it out when I'm not in class. I'm all for some improvement, and for me personally as well as for the whole group, we seem to be rather indecisive on how to best handle him.
EDIT: ^You probably like it because I borrowed so heavily from yours ;) Thanks for the compliment.
fishmanlee said:
ESB: "It is a dark time for the rebellion"
ROTJ: "The Alliance Is Doomed!"
They sure don't match! ;|
The sentiment matches, but the tone doesn't. "It is a dark time for the rebellion" is subtle, but ominous. "The alliance is doomed!" is just plain dramatic.
Captain Antilles said:
fishmanlee said:
ESB: "It is a dark time for the rebellion"
ROTJ: "The Alliance Is Doomed!"
They sure don't match! ;|The sentiment matches, but the tone doesn't. "It is a dark time for the rebellion" is subtle, but ominous. "The alliance is doomed!" is just plain dramatic.
ESB is supposed to be subtle and ominous. This ROTJ is suppose to be just plain dramatic. I say we keep it.
Still sounds too PT-ish to me, but I suppose the majority rules.
Bingowings said:
I'm still keen on this scenario.
It give the nerds their Boba love but also gives the guy his dignity back, not to mention his job.
That's actually quite fantastic.
Okay, I just had a break and used it to watch the little scenario. I especially like the Ackbar/Fett chat.
It's an interesting scenario, but to me personally it raises the exact same issue that all other survival scenarios do...what happens to Boba Fett from there? It clearly seems that if he lives, he should get what's coming to him later down the road. I wish we could somehow have him engage Han in a shootout on Endor or something, like two cowboys doing a quick draw. After all, the sweet justice of revenge would be satisfied in that scenario. Though not quite as fitting, a dogfight with the Falcon and Lando piloting would probably be easier to execute, and Lando clearly has some beef with the guy as well, since he led the Empire to Cloud City.
If Fett lives, I truly feel it's a thread that needs some tying up, no matter how he survives. We'd have to think out thoroughly how to tie that up if we would truly keep it.
Obviously such a sub-plot would negate the need for my Bothan scene.
People have made this sort of comment before when faced with the above scenario but one of the things that I dislike about Jedi is it's mad rush to dot every T and put a line at the end of every sentence.
In a world where 1983 Harrison can be digitally replicated it might have been nice to have offered Han the chance to get even with Fett but have him turn it down because he had grown beyond that.
The only way I can see that being done would be to have the Falcon arrive just as Slave 1 is leaving and have Han have the chance to shoot him down but just say "Nah!" , an option that could be done with effects and existing elements like the Falcon cockpit etc.
I understand the desire not to wrap every single thing up, but by having him live, it's already an invitation to reintroduce him into the story. To have him bring the plans to the Rebellion not only preserves his dignity, but in fact raises his villainy lavel at least 30 points. Even if he survives, good storytelling almost requires that we know what happens to him. Even the bad guys who survive in the movies usually escape to who knows where at the end, but Fett would simply disappear in the middle of the movie. If nothing else, he should seen during the Battle of Endor, then he chickens out and jumps to lightspeed. Too much head-scratching at the end of a story is no good either.
I say stick with the Bothans and the plans. The audience knows Boba Fett is a bad guy. Surely, the rebels would know this also.
I think Fett's character is best suited by dying. It just needs to be from a deliberate swipe by Han, not an Anakin-style "Oops!".
darth_ender said:
...Sluggo, I really feel it fortunate that you are here.
Me gusta.
darth_ender said:
As for Bothan acting, I thought it might be easier to simply use costumes and human dubbing. That way we don't have to pay their outrageous contractual demands either. I tried to write the scene so we would actually see very little of the Bothan himself, only revealing his hands (can be decent costume gloves) and eyes (probably not too hard for CGI, and possibly even reused from some other film).
Smart. To be fair, the Bothan Actors Guild (B.A.G.) does make it tough to get any kind of contract signed. That's why I work on Sullust.
Do we have to use the previously established West End Games (W.E.G.) design for the Bothans or would you want something new? Personally, I'd love a new design because I enjoy when the fanboys get their panties in a bunch.
Well, I am open to anything of course, but I personally think it would be least distracting to those familiar with the design if we were consistent. But this is not my edit, it's ours. What say you?
Depends on how the bothan WEG design looks, if it ain't broke do not fix it.
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
If we use footage from another movie, then it will be what it will be. I guess there is freedom and limitations in that solution, depending on how you look at it.
Also note that I am relying on old memory for the WEG source. The memory is known to cheat.
And I don't look things up on any star wars wiki. That stuff is all made up.
Sluggo said:
I say stick with the Bothans and the plans. The audience knows Boba Fett is a bad guy. Surely, the rebels would know this also.
I think Fett's character is best suited by dying. It just needs to be from a deliberate swipe by Han, not an Anakin-style "Oops!".
Is he really a bad guy?
He isn't to be trusted but the same was true of Lando in ESB.
He does shifty illegal things but the same was true of Han in ANH.
By ROTJ both of those guys are Rebel generals.
The Rebellion is bound to pay for information on the black market etc.
If Fett didn't do his job properly he wouldn't get paid again, here he is just doing the same job for two people just like he did in the previous film.
He doesn't care if the Rebels or the Empire win he just wants the money.
He tells the Rebels where the Emperor is and he leads the Rebels to location Vader wants them.
Both are bounty hunter jobs.
I don't think we should see Fett delivering the plans because unless we can get across the idea he is getting something worthwhile out of it then it would just seem like he is changing sides. Admittedly a bounty hunter should be on his own side really but given the rivalry with Han and the fact he was working for Vader in ESB it seems like too big a change for me.
Also I would avoid making the Bothans furry. I know that is from the EU and it might only require filming a gloved hand, but so far I don't think there has been a single edit that uses newly filmed footage of characters (though feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). It would be nice to be the first to do this but I think it would be much more realistic to find a clip of a hand reaching out to a console from Star Trek or Stargate or something like that and editing it to look more Star Wars, and there are going to be far more human clips than furry humanoid clips. This would only require people to watch a lot of dvds or tv and eventually spot a suitable clip (not too unrealistic) rather than finding access to a good quality video camera, lights, and props. If we could film new shots then it would be great to get some shots of Luke in black for new Dagobah scenes where we avoid seeing his face, or new commando and stormtrooper closeups against a forest background to add padding to the Endor battle. But to be honest I just don't think its anywhere near as likely as it is more fan film than fan edit and fan films tend to cost a lot more money to make.
Sorry if I am sounding a little negative here, I would love to think we could, but I think it is something to consider last as it would be the most work intensive of all the ideas suggested.
Having said that I still would love to see a scene with the Bothans stealing the plans, just let Bothans be human to make clips easier to source.
Johannus said:
so far I don't think there has been a single edit that uses newly filmed footage of characters (though feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). It would be nice to be the first to do this
ESB Revisited, Second Unit, nuff said.
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
Sluggo said:
I say stick with the Bothans and the plans. The audience knows Boba Fett is a bad guy. Surely, the rebels would know this also.
I think Fett's character is best suited by dying. It just needs to be from a deliberate swipe by Han, not an Anakin-style "Oops!".
Hmmm... is there a way of digitally cutting out harrison as Indiana jones from raiders of the lost ark?
You know, in the scene where he shoots the swordsman.
Han could get his sight back, see Boba Fett, pull out a gun and shoot him.
Of course you'd have to get rid of Indy's hat and adjust quite a few things.
Just an idea...
<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>
Bingowings said:
Sluggo said:
I say stick with the Bothans and the plans. The audience knows Boba Fett is a bad guy. Surely, the rebels would know this also.
I think Fett's character is best suited by dying. It just needs to be from a deliberate swipe by Han, not an Anakin-style "Oops!".
Is he really a bad guy?
He isn't to be trusted but the same was true of Lando in ESB.
I don't know if I see it that way. I think we as an audience can bring a gray area to our understanding of the character, but I think the movies are pretty simple in their presentation.
Johannus said:
I don't think we should see Fett delivering the plans because unless we can get across the idea he is getting something worthwhile out of it then it would just seem like he is changing sides. Admittedly a bounty hunter should be on his own side really but given the rivalry with Han and the fact he was working for Vader in ESB it seems like too big a change for me.
Also I would avoid making the Bothans furry. I know that is from the EU and it might only require filming a gloved hand, but so far I don't think there has been a single edit that uses newly filmed footage of characters (though feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). It would be nice to be the first to do this but I think it would be much more realistic to find a clip of a hand reaching out to a console from Star Trek or Stargate or something like that and editing it to look more Star Wars, and there are going to be far more human clips than furry humanoid clips. This would only require people to watch a lot of dvds or tv and eventually spot a suitable clip (not too unrealistic) rather than finding access to a good quality video camera, lights, and props. If we could film new shots then it would be great to get some shots of Luke in black for new Dagobah scenes where we avoid seeing his face, or new commando and stormtrooper closeups against a forest background to add padding to the Endor battle. But to be honest I just don't think its anywhere near as likely as it is more fan film than fan edit and fan films tend to cost a lot more money to make.
Sorry if I am sounding a little negative here, I would love to think we could, but I think it is something to consider last as it would be the most work intensive of all the ideas suggested.
Having said that I still would love to see a scene with the Bothans stealing the plans, just let Bothans be human to make clips easier to source.
Johannus, it's true that filming our own stuff would be expensive and difficult. I tried to write the scene as revealing without having to actually film much. In reality, with your model of the Shuttle Tyderium (I don't know if it was clear, but this was also supposed to be the explanation of the stealing of that shuttle), we could film the elements outside in space and composite them into a CGI fleet. The only real filming of people would be the hands. But it's only an idea at the present, and one that people voted for in some form.
Don't feel bad about shooting ideas down. You are not being negative. You are just being honest. And maybe you are right and we should make them rather human-looking. I'm okay with that.
...So just looking around, and maybe the new Wolfman movie might have a good close up shot that could get what we need. I don't think it'd be too hard to find something.
Oh, I thought the Bothan discussion was dead. I may try to wade through the pages of posts soon, but until then, here was my original concept for the Bothan sequence:
1. Bothan insertion into Coruscant via spacedrop (see my previous post)
2. Bousschchhch, already on Coruscant, provides them with a way in to the Imperial facility (again, see previous post)
3. Bothans sneak through facility, get plans, and are then discovered
4. Bothans attempt to escape, but are killed off one by one, until the final Bothan is picked up in mid-air by a Blockade Runner which surreptitiously leaves one of the skylanes, grabs the Bothan, and takes off for the sky at maximum speed (All those engines have got to count for something).
5. Boushh watches, intended as a backup plan, but gets into his ship and leaves once the Bothan has excaped. "Transmission incoming" reveals a photo/holo of the Falcon on Tatooine - Boushh jumps to hyperspace.
Regarding fur: Leave the Bothans fully helmeted and covered, but with strangely, unhuman shaped helmets (more snoutlike). Then, when one dies, their helmet comes off - The only Bothan we ever see is a dead one. This is much easier than having to have several actors in Bothan makeup, but shows us the expanding, less human nature of the Rebellion.
No, the discussion is not dead. I included a new scene that would show one briefly, and based on the previous vote. I truly like your idea, tim, but I worry about pulling that one off. What Johannus said becomes exponentially more true the more we show. Nevertheless, I don't think we need to rule anything out for a long time. We just need to brainstorm how to do it.
Sluggo said:
I say stick with the Bothans and the plans. The audience knows Boba Fett is a bad guy. Surely, the rebels would know this also.
I think Fett's character is best suited by dying. It just needs to be from a deliberate swipe by Han, not an Anakin-style "Oops!".
At the risk of needlessly arguing the toss so this will be my last word on the subject in this thread, the audience has already played that game in ESB.
We are already queued to distrust Lando from the moment we meet him.
He confirms those doubts when he hands our heroes to the big baddie.
They are tortured and Han's life hangs in the balance during the carbon freeze.
He has very good reasons for doing what he does but that doesn't stop Leia from letting Chewie almost choke him death after risking everything to set them free.
It's the prospect of rescuing Han that snaps her out of the Skywalker family ritual of choking people they don't like.
A couple of minutes later in screen time he is flying the Falcon away with the same Wookiee that was Leia's proxy Force choke.
Tonnes of grey there in the episode many fans if not most claim to be the best one but the audience can deal with.
For Jedi to feel less of a contractual obligation film it needs some of that missing nuance added in.
It might shrink the universe a bit more but I as an audience member have no emotional investment in these Bothan guys and it's doubtful that adding a little scene in there isn't really going to provide it for me.
Fett is a known quantity.
He is ANH's Han through a glass darkly.
He is mercenary, he has the cool look, the cool ship but unlike Han he is truly Solo.
If the Rebels were willing to pay Han for his services I have no problem with them paying for Fett's.
The on screen disclosure that he is also working for Vader puts the bomb under the chair and builds tension for how the Endor thing is going to play out later.
I have to be honest, Boba Fett providing the plans is definitely an interesting idea, but it does seem too out of character, and even when the Rebels work with shady characters, I doubt they'd go for a guy who was so very directly involved in bringing down some of their heroes. Your reasoning is sound in the real world, but for the way Star Wars established the Fett character, it feels very out of place to me. But hey, I will include it in the vote, as many people may go for the idea. This sort of discussion is a good thing because it helps us think outside the box.
What do you guys think about including some Han/Lando reconciliation over the intercom while Luke's in his X-wing to replace Han's "Thanks for coming after me" lines?
Okay, let me get the updated script done. I will try to distinguish what was changed and what was not so those who've already read it won't have to reread everything and can simply skim to the different stuff. I should have it tonight.