Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 16

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfOrr31FIw&feature=youtu.be

Here is a very (very) rough mock up of what I was suggesting for an opening Dagobah scene.  I removed the sound altogether as it was all over the place and it would take much more than a mock up to fix that so initiallyI'm afraid we'll have to make do with some annotations to accompany it, so here goes.

To start with there would be a new establishing shot showing the Xwing on Dagobah, then inside Yoda's house we would see him moving over to obtain his lightsaber crystal, talking to Luke about how the lightsaber is only a tool through which to use the force (or anything that sounds wise). 

Then show him turning and moving the crystal which then falls into Luke's hand.  Then we would pick back up to Luke and Yoda outside where Luke builds the Lightsaber using the force (which was inspired by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4 ).

Then instead of having Luke immediately ignite the blade I would have him walk off, and then we cut to the Yoda death scene shortly after.  Then once Yoda dies Luke tweaks the lightsaber and ignites it (the deleted scene footage changed to set on Dagobah as shown in the photo I linked to earlier).  After this Luke would move to his Xwing to depart and hear Yoda's voice urge him to hurry to his friends' rescue (as I described briefly in my earlier post). 

I know this would reuse a lot of footage but given the limited movement from both Yoda and Luke, and the fact Luke's face is offscreen any time he would need to talk then Luke's speech shouldn't be a problem, and Yoda's is only limited really by his lack of existing lines, but I'm still playing around there, and there might be more sources I don't know about.  But visually the backgrounds could be changed without much work, as there is very little movement, and even Luke's costume could be changed to a partly new costume, even if it would be difficult to make it match exactly with his RotJ one.  I know it wouldn't be easy, but I do think it would be possible. 

I think the benefits are it potentially has an awesomeness factor because it would be cool to see Luke build a lightsaber.  It would also explain how he happened upon the necessary pieces to build one (because Yoda handed his old lightsaber down to a new apprentice).  And it would increase the running time, which allows more freedom with other cutting without damaging the overall length. 

The additional clips were to show Luke holding the crystal, and Luke examining the hilt after piecing it together. 

Anyway I hope someone else might agree that this idea has potential (despite an extremely rough demonstration as to its execution). 

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

No need to even do that.... Have am alarm sound like the tractor beam from ANH "whats that flashing" on the falcon while he is swinging round in his chair and then the close up the force be with us and then Boom!!!

I think it would work better on the second cruiser now as the first one is all about surprise

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

With regard to having to make lips move digitally, you could construct a fairly static image of one of the terminals and add some beeping or flashing or whatnot and have his line (or part of it) come from offscreen before cutting to the wider shot including Madine.  This way you could have a bit more freedom with his line and maybe show the death star on the display to make it clear he has a reading or something.  Just an idea, as the less movement in a shot the easier it would be to create and if its only for quick shots such as this it could be done without appearing too fake.  It might even be possible to edit a shot from Star Trek or Stargate or something that has a similar shot of hands on a terminal or monitor but without the face being shown so there would be some movement, but without finding a suitable clip it is hard to know.

fishmanlee said:

how about: That Blast- Madine!

That could work.  The way we'd have to work this is with the first Mon Cal explosion, focus on Nien Nunb, then Lando, who then says, "That..." then cut back to Nien Nunb, "...thing's operational!"  Cut a bit of Nunb.  Then at the explosion of the second cruiser, show Lando first, "That blast..." Cut to Nunb, show his little nod this time as Lando continues softly, "Madine..."  I don't know if that would work or if I described it well, but that's what I'd imagine at the present.  Maybe a shot of Nien Nunb could be grabbed from somewhere else too to fill in some of Lando's talking.

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

No need to even do that.... Have am alarm sound like the tractor beam from ANH "whats that flashing" on the falcon while he is swinging round in his chair and then the close up the force be with us and then Boom!!!

I think it would work better on the second cruiser now as the first one is all about surprise

Definitely agreeing with your last statement.  The first is the surprise; the second packs the emotion.  And maybe you're right about how to pull it off with just an alarm too, but I worry that the audience might wonder how they know the Death Star is about to fire.  Maybe it would be enough, I dunno.

Johannus said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfOrr31FIw&feature=youtu.be

Here is a very (very) rough mock up of what I was suggesting for an opening Dagobah scene.  I removed the sound altogether as it was all over the place and it would take much more than a mock up to fix that so initiallyI'm afraid we'll have to make do with some annotations to accompany it, so here goes.

To start with there would be a new establishing shot showing the Xwing on Dagobah, then inside Yoda's house we would see him moving over to obtain his lightsaber crystal, talking to Luke about how the lightsaber is only a tool through which to use the force (or anything that sounds wise). 

Then show him turning and moving the crystal which then falls into Luke's hand.  Then we would pick back up to Luke and Yoda outside where Luke builds the Lightsaber using the force (which was inspired by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4 ).

Then instead of having Luke immediately ignite the blade I would have him walk off, and then we cut to the Yoda death scene shortly after.  Then once Yoda dies Luke tweaks the lightsaber and ignites it (the deleted scene footage changed to set on Dagobah as shown in the photo I linked to earlier).  After this Luke would move to his Xwing to depart and hear Yoda's voice urge him to hurry to his friends' rescue (as I described briefly in my earlier post). 

I know this would reuse a lot of footage but given the limited movement from both Yoda and Luke, and the fact Luke's face is offscreen any time he would need to talk then Luke's speech shouldn't be a problem, and Yoda's is only limited really by his lack of existing lines, but I'm still playing around there, and there might be more sources I don't know about.  But visually the backgrounds could be changed without much work, as there is very little movement, and even Luke's costume could be changed to a partly new costume, even if it would be difficult to make it match exactly with his RotJ one.  I know it wouldn't be easy, but I do think it would be possible. 

I think the benefits are it potentially has an awesomeness factor because it would be cool to see Luke build a lightsaber.  It would also explain how he happened upon the necessary pieces to build one (because Yoda handed his old lightsaber down to a new apprentice).  And it would increase the running time, which allows more freedom with other cutting without damaging the overall length. 

The additional clips were to show Luke holding the crystal, and Luke examining the hilt after piecing it together. 

Anyway I hope someone else might agree that this idea has potential (despite an extremely rough demonstration as to its execution). 

I like the Idea but don't feel there is any need to visualize somthing as trivial as a lightsabre being constructed over the course of minutes...... But what I really like is Yoda giving him the crystal, and that would be enough to show that he passed it onto luke....

"have somthing for you I do..."

that's enough if we were to see the crystal and luke hold it in his robot hand this would also add symbolism to that, like yoda trying to protect him which I am very fond of also. If it's a crystal glowing like bright green and lukes sabre suddenly turns green as opposed to blue.... I think the audience will get it no need to explain it in such detail.

I like this part not seeing it constructed would be boring IMO

Johannus said:

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

With regard to having to make lips move digitally, you could construct a fairly static image of one of the terminals and add some beeping or flashing or whatnot and have his line (or part of it) come from offscreen before cutting to the wider shot including Madine.  This way you could have a bit more freedom with his line and maybe show the death star on the display to make it clear he has a reading or something.  Just an idea, as the less movement in a shot the easier it would be to create and if its only for quick shots such as this it could be done without appearing too fake.  It might even be possible to edit a shot from Star Trek or Stargate or something that has a similar shot of hands on a terminal or monitor but without the face being shown so there would be some movement, but without finding a suitable clip it is hard to know.

Good point.  It may be hard to find the right clip since those other shows have a sort of different feel to their universe, but maybe we could find a computer panel that matches well enough, especially with appropriate color correction.

darth_ender said:

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

No need to even do that.... Have am alarm sound like the tractor beam from ANH "whats that flashing" on the falcon while he is swinging round in his chair and then the close up the force be with us and then Boom!!!

I think it would work better on the second cruiser now as the first one is all about surprise

Definitely agreeing with your last statement.  The first is the surprise; the second packs the emotion.  And maybe you're right about how to pull it off with just an alarm too, but I worry that the audience might wonder how they know the Death Star is about to fire.  Maybe it would be enough, I dunno.

The Alarms going so we know somthing is wrong.... The next thing we here is "The Force Be with us" .... BANG....  It was too late to even do anything so I think it might work...

Ronster said:

Johannus said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfOrr31FIw&feature=youtu.be

Here is a very (very) rough mock up of what I was suggesting for an opening Dagobah scene.  I removed the sound altogether as it was all over the place and it would take much more than a mock up to fix that so initiallyI'm afraid we'll have to make do with some annotations to accompany it, so here goes.

To start with there would be a new establishing shot showing the Xwing on Dagobah, then inside Yoda's house we would see him moving over to obtain his lightsaber crystal, talking to Luke about how the lightsaber is only a tool through which to use the force (or anything that sounds wise). 

Then show him turning and moving the crystal which then falls into Luke's hand.  Then we would pick back up to Luke and Yoda outside where Luke builds the Lightsaber using the force (which was inspired by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4 ).

Then instead of having Luke immediately ignite the blade I would have him walk off, and then we cut to the Yoda death scene shortly after.  Then once Yoda dies Luke tweaks the lightsaber and ignites it (the deleted scene footage changed to set on Dagobah as shown in the photo I linked to earlier).  After this Luke would move to his Xwing to depart and hear Yoda's voice urge him to hurry to his friends' rescue (as I described briefly in my earlier post). 

I know this would reuse a lot of footage but given the limited movement from both Yoda and Luke, and the fact Luke's face is offscreen any time he would need to talk then Luke's speech shouldn't be a problem, and Yoda's is only limited really by his lack of existing lines, but I'm still playing around there, and there might be more sources I don't know about.  But visually the backgrounds could be changed without much work, as there is very little movement, and even Luke's costume could be changed to a partly new costume, even if it would be difficult to make it match exactly with his RotJ one.  I know it wouldn't be easy, but I do think it would be possible. 

I think the benefits are it potentially has an awesomeness factor because it would be cool to see Luke build a lightsaber.  It would also explain how he happened upon the necessary pieces to build one (because Yoda handed his old lightsaber down to a new apprentice).  And it would increase the running time, which allows more freedom with other cutting without damaging the overall length. 

The additional clips were to show Luke holding the crystal, and Luke examining the hilt after piecing it together. 

Anyway I hope someone else might agree that this idea has potential (despite an extremely rough demonstration as to its execution). 

I like the Idea but don't feel there is any need to visualize somthing as trivial as a lightsabre being constructed over the course of minutes...... But what I really like is Yoda giving him the crystal, and that would be enough to show that he passed it onto luke....

"have somthing for you I do..."

that's enough if we were to see the crystal and luke hold it in his robot hand this would also add symbolism to that, like yoda trying to protect him which I am very fond of also. If it's a crystal glowing like bright green and lukes sabre suddenly turns green as opposed to blue.... I think the audience will get it no need to explain it in such detail.

I like this part not seeing it constructed would be boring IMO

I don't think it would be so boring as it would be difficult to pull off successfully and I really don't like reused footage unless it can be disguised well.  Your idea may be more feasible here, Ronster.  But even that may be difficult.  Good brainstorming, guys.

Yeah, I don't think it's trivial.  I think it's got the spirituality of ESB.  But like I said, It would be hard to pull off that complex a shot without obviously showing ESB footage.  But I do think a simpler version could be shown to illustrate the same message.  Ultimately I do wish we had more Dagobah footage to play with.

fishmanlee said:

Ronster said:

I like the Idea but don't feel there is any need to visualize something as trivial as a lightsabre being constructed

Trivial?

Yeah it's an object.... It's the potential energy you give it not the object on it's own.... I like X-wings too but It does not mean I want to see how they build them.... Catch my drift

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I don't think it's trivial.  I think it's got the spirituality of ESB.  But like I said, It would be hard to pull off that complex a shot without obviously showing ESB footage.  But I do think a simpler version could be shown to illustrate the same message.  Ultimately I do wish we had more Dagobah footage to play with.

There is a little bit at the end of ROTS, I was going to suggest using that for the planet reveal you mention Darth Ender I was also eyeing Ogana's Tantive for possible shots the other day for the "Stealing the plans opening" Suggestion  that would also make it look a bit more different than what I currently have. anyway just trying to help

But there's a great deal of symbolism to the whole object, not just the crystal.

Anyway, I got a PM from MrInsaneA.

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I don't think it's trivial.  I think it's got the spirituality of ESB.  But like I said, It would be hard to pull off that complex a shot without obviously showing ESB footage.  But I do think a simpler version could be shown to illustrate the same message.  Ultimately I do wish we had more Dagobah footage to play with.

There is a little bit at the end of ROTS, I was going to suggest using that for the planet reveal you mention Darth Ender I was also eyeing Ogana's Tantive for possible shots the other day for the "Stealing the plans opening" Suggestion  that would also make it look a bit more different than what I currently have. anyway just trying to help

Always appreciating the help, even if I disagree.  We debate our ideas to sharpen them, and ultimately I agree with your suggestion on the lightsaber construction--seems the best way to pull off the idea.  And that's true about ROTS, except I think it's a deleted scene.  That's even better because we won't be really reusing footage that made it into the actual film.  Only problem is Yoda's ship  is in almost every frame.  Perhaps there is a way to digitally remove it.  I dunno.

darth_ender said:

But there's a great deal of symbolism to the whole object, not just the crystal.

 

Anyway, I got a PM from MrInsaneA.

 

MrInsaneA said:

And my opinion of your edit? Well I didn't like how you restructured the land battle of Endor, except towards the end when Han and the Rebels break into the bunker. It's kind of hard to judge how it flows because a lot of scenes you want to have are soundless, or just still pictures with descriptions. But it's full of some good concepts. With a lot of tweaking, it could be great.

I hope to get more feedback on the video because I think a good rough edit will give us more direction on how the battle will ultimately play out.  I still believe there are things that could be added, particularly to the space battle.  Anyone else have any thoughts they feel like sharing.  I know it's nowhere near perfect, but if anyone can think of how to sharpen the concepts, that would be appreciated.

 

How do edits normally start, do people usually do these rough cuts and compare notes thrash it out, or what or is this somewhat of a new thing?

I am quite new here... ahem

Ummm...no.  Usually one person with ideas that are largely his or her own make his or her own edit with his or her own resources and a little feedback from those interested in the project.  This happens to be the collaborative thread where we share ideas and try to get direction.  Yes, apparently it's a new thing around here.

You can always work on your own edit if you don't like the tediousness of this project.

darth_ender said:

Ummm...no.  Usually one person with ideas that are largely his or her own make his or her own edit with his or her own resources and a little feedback from those interested in the project.  This happens to be the collaborative thread where we share ideas and try to get direction.  Yes, apparently it's a new thing around here.

You can always work on your own edit if you don't like the tediousness of this project.

You're starting to sound like a Separatist! 

darth_ender said:

Ummm...no.  Usually one person with ideas that are largely his or her own make his or her own edit with his or her own resources and a little feedback from those interested in the project.  This happens to be the collaborative thread where we share ideas and try to get direction.  Yes, apparently it's a new thing around here.

You can always work on your own edit if you don't like the tediousness of this project.

No thats not quite the spirit... I want to see where this goes first, and I want to try and visualize my own ideas and try to help others with theirs too... I quite like it in here tbh... And you just made me laugh

I figured I probably misunderstood.  I honestly still don't quite understand what you meant as your sentence structure can be confusing at times, but you sounded a bit hostile with that comment.

I think that all the users need to debate the issue....figure out what's right....and do it.

Somebody should make them do it. Someone wise. *gives creepy Anakin stare*

Wow, all these extremely dislikable personality traits you're exhibiting only make me that much more attracted to you.  I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life, MrInsaneA...

MrInsaneA said:

I think that all the users need to debate the issue....figure out what's right....and do it.

Somebody should make them do it. Someone wise. *gives creepy Anakin stare*

Did you vote?

2nd round of votes are coming later... Darth_Ender will tell you that straight... You should keep up with what we are doing and put a valid opinion in....

Or is he just winding us up.... Were debating stuff you can too?