Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 13

So I didn't add Madine to my video yet, and I decided I should, especially considering the conversation.  This means my video isn't quite done, and I've been rather busy all day.  I'll likely get it finished tomorrow.  Sorry for the hold up.

@fishmanlee Is it too busy with SFX added just wondering why it was cut in the first place?

Millenium falcons destruction ideas

So Lando makes it out of DSII but evey shot after the "yeeha!" the back of the falcon is on fire like petrol burning on it's back we see this on everyshot of the falcon up until and while DSII is exploding and flying towards the fleet.

The falcon then has a small explosion This video below is how I would imagine the falcon to look before it explodes / burns out a bit more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf94QodBNAo&feature=related

Then starts looks a bit more like the video below with smoke perhaps in Endor Atmosphere, while the ewoks blow there horns even

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPnLm7gkkxo&feature=related

and then completly exploding... fire chunks breaking apart It I don't think it should hit the ground it should break up in mid air or in space. It does seem all these effects are possible in after effects so would need to re-use footage of the falcon from another of the trilogy to show it starting "burning out" then it would be all effects there after

Just wanted to visualize the idea a bit better my main concern is that although there is the elation of destroying the DSII we immediatley cut to the downer of the falcons destruction so there would have to be some celebration on Endor and before Han and Leia have a smooch it would then cut back to the falcon on fire.

Or it would simply make it a suicide mission have no "Yehaa!" and make the falcon a fireball slowly blow that up first and then DSII destruction?

It's a tough one... And if there was no way of making it work it should just stay as the original IMO.

fishmanlee said:

darth_ender said:

So I didn't add Madine to my video yet, and I decided I should, especially considering the conversation.  This means my video isn't quite done, and I've been rather busy all day.  I'll likely get it finished tomorrow.  Sorry for the hold up.

Did you see the video I just put up, with the short restored passage of music?

I did watch it, and I'm pondering on it.  I'll get back to you.  Thanks for putting that up, as I love to hear John Williams, and I love to hear his missing stuff.

Okay, so my idea about setting the final battle in the Imperial Capital isn't so popular, but I'd like to say two things in its defense.

Firstly, the original, I think, lacks tension compared with this idea. The Death Star is apparently not operational. We only discover that it's operational during the battle. This makes for a good twist, but it also leaves the tension very slack up until this point. The Death Star is also apparently undefended, meaning that we can expect this battle not to be too difficult, until it turns out to be a trap. This idea, on the other hand, would have the rebels seeking to assault the Imperial stronghold, which is only for the moment less defended than it usually is. It's a desperate attempt to knock out the Imperial government while they still have a minor chance of success. This possibility for success is then dashed when it turns out to all be a trap. In this concept, the tension is high at all times. At every moment, they're facing a tremendous danger, even in the best of all possible scenarios, and then the worst possible scenario - which would be the arrival of a massive imperial fleet - occurs.

Secondly, I think the destruction of the palace could not only be as good and exciting as the destruction of the Death Star, I think it could be better and more original. Take for example the conclusion of V for Vendetta, which features the destruction of the Houses of Parliament. The symbolism is clear - it's the elimination of an old order and implies the institution of a new, better order of life. If the Imperial Palace was decked out in statues of the Emperor, intimidating semi-Gothic arches and other imposing imagery, its destruction would represent the collapse of the whole oppressive Empire. It would give the viewers more reason to believe that this is a blow that the Empire can't recover from. It has lost not only its leader, but the seat of its government and likely the whole of its political class. After all, the Empire was very centralized. It's possible that they orchestrated the oppression of the galaxy from this massive base of operations.

Imagine something like this, with Williams instead of Tchaikovsky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnPvbfogeSI#t=1m53s

TheoOdo said:

Okay, so my idea about setting the final battle in the Imperial Capital isn't so popular, but I'd like to say two things in its defense.

Firstly, the original, I think, lacks tension compared with this idea. The Death Star is apparently not operational. We only discover that it's operational during the battle. This makes for a good twist, but it also leaves the tension very slack up until this point. The Death Star is also apparently undefended, meaning that we can expect this battle not to be too difficult, until it turns out to be a trap. This idea, on the other hand, would have the rebels seeking to assault the Imperial stronghold, which is only for the moment less defended than it usually is. It's a desperate attempt to knock out the Imperial government while they still have a minor chance of success. This possibility for success is then dashed when it turns out to all be a trap. In this concept, the tension is high at all times. At every moment, they're facing a tremendous danger, even in the best of all possible scenarios, and then the worst possible scenario - which would be the arrival of a massive imperial fleet - occurs.

Secondly, I think the destruction of the palace could not only be as good and exciting as the destruction of the Death Star, I think it could be better and more original. Take for example the conclusion of V for Vendetta, which features the destruction of the Houses of Parliament. The symbolism is clear - it's the elimination of an old order and implies the institution of a new, better order of life. If the Imperial Palace was decked out in statues of the Emperor, intimidating semi-Gothic arches and other imposing imagery, its destruction would represent the collapse of the whole oppressive Empire. It would give the viewers more reason to believe that this is a blow that the Empire can't recover from. It has lost not only its leader, but the seat of its government and likely the whole of its political class. After all, the Empire was very centralized. It's possible that they orchestrated the oppression of the galaxy from this massive base of operations.

Imagine something like this, with Williams instead of Tchaikovsky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnPvbfogeSI#t=1m53s

 

Theoodo, I have 2 things to say about your Idea, whilst it is good, and even I thought about the corusant scenario the main problem is executing it... Making it all happen on corusant the amount of Audio dubs from main characters from "Death Star" to "Empirial Palce"... It is not only an enormous undertaking with Audio and Visually + Graphically too but being able to even pull it off and make it plausible is another and I believe that even though the DSII is a recycled idea it has everything there already waiting to be manipulated in such a way that it can work alot better than than even the original has to offer..... Even with DSII staying at the helm. This is only my opinion, there are many others who would really want to hold the battle of endor on corusant, I for one do not believe it is possible....

secondly, ROTJ is'nt the best film but V for Vendetta is the worst film, I had to turn it off when I attempted to watch it.. . So I never saw that scene before in the link you posted... I get what your trying to say like an uprising but how to show a massive uprising on corusant without filming huge crowds of people , dressed up and with CGI Backdrops and real sets is definatly beyond my vision, If you can attempt to show us how you plan or propose to execute your ideas then it would add more weight behind it... Perhaps it can be done but having an idea and then not thinking about how you will do it are 2 totally different things.  Granted alot can be achieved by sticking different background mattes up and alike but you are practically talking about making half a different movie and that is why I also ditched this idea myself, after briefly supporting it I realised it's not for the fainthearted and no offense to you or anyone else who likes the idea as I like it myself somewhat it is just such a massive burden.

Ronster said:

Theoodo, I have 2 things to say about your Idea, whilst it is good, and even I thought about the corusant scenario the main problem is executing it... Making it all happen on corusant the amount of Audio dubs from main characters from "Death Star" to "Empirial Palce"... It is not only an enormous undertaking with Audio and Visually + Graphically too but being able to even pull it off and make it plausible is another and I believe that even though the DSII is a recycled idea it has everything there already waiting to be manipulated in such a way that it can work alot better than than even the original has to offer..... Even with DSII staying at the helm. This is only my opinion, there are many others who would really want to hold the battle of endor on corusant, I for one do not believe it is possible....

secondly, ROTJ is'nt the best film but V for Vendetta is the worst film, I had to turn it off when I attempted to watch it.. . So I never saw that scene before in the link you posted... I get what your trying to say like an uprising but how to show a massive uprising on corusant without filming huge crowds of people , dressed up and with CGI Backdrops and real sets is definatly beyond my vision, If you can attempt to show us how you plan or propose to execute your ideas then it would add more weight behind it... Perhaps it can be done but having an idea and then not thinking about how you will do it are 2 totally different things.  Granted alot can be achieved by sticking different background mattes up and alike but you are practically talking about making half a different movie and that is why I also ditched this idea myself, after briefly supporting it I realised it's not for the fainthearted and no offense to you or anyone else who likes the idea as I like it myself somewhat it is just such a massive burden.

Well, I did deal with this in an abbreviated way in my original post on this. It would require several new mattes to replace the originals, and a whole new 3D environment of the Imperial city for the arrival of Vader's shuttle and the Falcon's brief pass over its surface. Ackbar would have to be re-dubbed and Mon Mothma's speech shortened. A new hologram would also have to be made for that scene. Other than that, we need only remove Lando's occasional mentions of the Death Star during the battle and the story would roll out without much more alteration. An altered opening crawl would also help establish that the Rebels are plotting an assault on the seat of Imperial power, while they have a brief window of opportunity. Some of that may sound impossible, but we've already discussed adding whole new CGI ships and a whole new sequence with the Bothan spies. I don't think my idea is much more drastic than either of these suggestions.

As for an uprising, it wouldn't actually be necessary (the destruction of the palace itself would be a striking enough image, followed by the celebrations on Endor) but we in fact already have footage of rebellions on Coruscant - namely, the special edition footage of people celebrating. You'll notice a Stormtrooper being passed over the crowds of people. With a little audio editing, this scene could be turned into a violent riot rather than a celebration. That, or you could keep it as a more celebratory uprising. Following the destruction of the palace, the latent anger of the oppressed populace is unleashed, while our heroes celebrate on the neighboring moon. As for Vendetta, I agree it's nothing compared to the comic (which I like), but I was only using it to illustrate how a building's destruction can be as dramatic as - or more dramatic than - the destruction of the Death Star.

Whatever you think of the movie, I don't think you can fault the magnitude of its conclusion.

ok I see what you mean about V for Vendetta...Book Good / Movie Bad, Yeah so how does Endor Play in this, is this a moon of Corusant? The problem with that is that Endor is nowhere near it but you then throw the prequels out the window, which does not bother me too much but people will be like "what?"

Questions

Is there a death star in this version and where is it?

If they blow up the Palace who destroys the Death Star as this threat is not there /removed?

What threat is there of impending doom or Political reasons that causes people to uprise against the emporer if there is no Death Star and how do you attempt to conjure this threat with what footage is available?

Endor has a shield generator protectiing a Palace on another Planet or a Deathstar?

What destroys the Rebel Capital Ships?

What does the executor crash into?

Luke goes to Endor and then to corusant and then back to Endor?

You also forgot re-dubbing the emporers lines / and having to remove much of his parts in it. And JeJerrods Lines in fact what does he even do anymore and Vaders Lines.

This is just some of the questions I have....But these spring immediatley to mind.

Ronster said:

Yeah so how does Endor Play in this, is this a moon of Corusant? The problem with that is that Endor is nowhere near it but you then throw the prequels out the window, which does not bother me too much but people will be like "what?"

Yes, Endor is a moon of Coruscant. In the original draft of Return of the Jedi, I seem to remember Endor having been a moon of the Imperial planet. This is where the name "sanctuary moon" comes from. Somehow it survived into the final drafts.

"Sanctuary" because it is a natural environment not built up with technology, as the surface of the Imperial world had been. Don't quote me on that, though, I'm going from memory and it's been a while since I checked out the draft.

Yes, the prequels would be considered very much secondary to this edit, although there are indeed moons around Coruscant in the prequels, if anybody cares.

Is there a death star in this version and where is it?

No. One of the reasons to make the Palace the focus of the assault is to avoid rehashing the Death Star, something which Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back producer Gary Kurtz (I think rightly) condemned as unimaginative in his interview with IGN.

If they blow up the Palce who destroys the Death Star as this threat is not there /removed?

Nobody, as it doesn't exist. I had a discussion about this before, but I think I might as well repeat myself here.

The reason the original Death Star was created was as a propaganda symbol as much as a weapon of destruction. It was meant to demonstrate the power of the Empire, but its destruction would have been an equally massive propaganda failure.

It would be like building a second Hindenburg. It wouldn't say "obey" it would remind people of the Empire's humiliating and improbable defeat, so even in-universe, the second Death Star is a problem.

That's not to say the Empire wouldn't do it, but it's as if their propaganda department was all blown up with the original Death Star. It lacks imagination in-universe and out.

What threat is there of impending doom or Political reasons that causes people to uprise against the emporer if there is no Death Star and how do you attempt to conjure this threat with what footage is available?

The arrival of the Rebel fleet, the destruction of the Imperial Palace and the likely death of the emperor would serve as a catalyst for an all out uprising by the population.

As with real world dictatorships, symbolic acts can often compel an oppressed population to rebel, often against massive odds. With the Rebel fleet's arrival and recent victory, sympathizers on the surface would have every reason to begin rebelling.

Remember, the Empire didn't have an operational Death Star for much of its existence. The people would have to have been kept under foot by other means.

Endor has a shield generator protectiing a Palace on another Planet or a Deathstar?

Usually, the Imperial Capital would be defended by a massive fleet. With the outbreak of Rebellion, the fleet is now "spread thin throughout the galaxy in a vain attempt to engage" the Rebels.

Because of this, a security shield has been built around the planet in the absence of the fleet, effectively quarantining it and its population.

This is a show of weakness that the Rebels seek to exploit, but, of course, it turns out to be a trap. The fleet has left the Imperial Capital in an attempt to coax the Rebels into attacking. As they approach the Imperial home-world, they'll find that they're being jammed by operators on the surface, then the Imperial fleet exits hyperspace and begins its assault.

What destroys the Rebel Capital Ships?

The Imperial fleet's assault.

Although a surprising blast from the Death Star was necessary in the original, the threat in this edit is the massive Imperial fleet.

What does the executor crash into?

I had different ideas for this. One was to have it crash into a smaller moon.

Another was to have the Executor crash into another Super Star Destroyer, which entails the destruction of two flag ships and so sends the fleet into a state of disarray. With the shield now down and the Rebels launching their attack on the Palace, this would be a major blow to the Imperial offensive.

They've lost several commanders and are now continuing the assault in the knowledge that the Emperor - everything they've been fighting for - is now under threat.

Luke goes to Endor and then to corusant and then back to Endor?

Yes, just as he goes to Endor, then to the Death Star, then back to Endor. Endor is now a moon of the Imperial Capital, as in the original draft, so this is not a very long journey.

You also forgot re-dubbing the emporers lines / and having to remove much of his parts in it.

The Emperor does not mention the Death Star all that much, actually. When he does, he refers to it only as a "battle station".

He does reference the "shield generator", which we now take to be a generator defending the entire Imperial planet.

For example, this scene works even with the removal of the Death Star, with the throne room now set inside the Palace:

EMPEROR
Ah, yes, a Jedi's weapon. Much like your
father's. By now you must know your father
can never be turned from the dark side. So
will it be with you.

LUKE
You're wrong. Soon I'll be dead...and you
with me.

The Emperor laughs.

EMPEROR
Perhaps you refer to the imminent attack of
your Rebel fleet.

Luke looks up sharply.

EMPEROR
Yes...I assure you we are quite safe from
your friends here.

Vader looks at Luke.

LUKE
Your overconfidence is your weakness.

EMPEROR
Your faith in your friends is yours.

VADER
It is pointless to resist, my son.

The Emperor turns to face Luke.

EMPEROR (angry)
Everything that has transpired has done so
according to my design.
Your friends up there on the Sanctuary
Moon...

Luke reacts. The Emperor notes it.

EMPEROR (cont)
...are walking into a trap. As is your Rebel
fleet! It was I who allowed the Alliance to
know the location of the shield generator. It
is quite safe from your pitiful little band.
An entire legion of my best troops awaits
them.

Luke's look darts from the Emperor to Vader and, finally, to the
sword in the Emperor's hand.

EMPEROR
Oh...I'm afraid the deflector shield will be
quite operational when your friends arrive.

TheOdo your explaination is good but you did not answer how you will attempt to accomplish the "threat" with any scenes breakdown like pruposed changes so it would appear that the empire is spread thin across the galaxy.... Or How do you intend to show the oppression in the galaxy?

How do you even plan to show the emporer as a dictator? I am referecing his arrival at the death star where pretty much all He and Vader does is talk about is Deathstar being completed and Luke? and then it's the same again you have not thought about it....Vader travels from Corusant To Endor to witness lukes pressence flys back to corusant to tell the emporer then goes back to endor to get luke to bring him back to corusant.... Sorry man I'd rather watch the original...

I will say this to you... I have already thought about it before and It is not possible to make a good movie and do this idea.... But go ahead and prove me wrong and good luck

I have no preference either way, because they're both fine ideas, and it would be exciting to have the "full circle" sort of thing with the prequels. There are two things against the Coruscant idea though.

1. There's no impending threat. If the rebels are sitting pretty, there's no immediate reason for them to attack. The Death Star II was a big threat because once it was finished, it would be indestructible. They had to destroy it right away. The Imperial Palace in itself is just a building on one planet. It's interesting, but not in the context of a space battle.
For a potential solution, I would suggest some kind of secret project the Emperor is playing close to the chest. Maybe Imperial codebreakers are about to find the location of the rebel base.

2. The aforementioned work involved in realizing everything.

fishmanlee said:

Another short restored passage:

Father and Son Restored Passage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eCuzn5q5U&feature=channel_video_title

Well done on this fishmanlee although I prefer the original deep cello or double bass at the end of the scene but this might just help me incorporate an idea I had about this scene.

I am cutting both lines Luke "I can feel the conflict within you let go of yout hate"

and Vader "It is too late for me"

It am planning it to go Luke  "you Can't do this?"

Vader  "The Emporer will show you the true nature of the force... He is your master now"

Luke  "then my father is truly dead?"

Vader goes over to the window and pauses, I am going to attempt to show Vader on the operating table and his helmet being placed on at this point from ROTS.... I am completly unsure if this will work at all... but going to give it a try... I am hoping that it may offer up some type of symbol of Vaders pain and the influence of the emporer but not sure it look that way and not too certain if I should show the Palps saying "Lord Vader.... Can you hear me?" then cut away.back to Vader looking out the window or just dtry earlier so your music reconstruction may just help me get there.

I already tried somthing else here with Obi-Wan Audio only and it did not work...

After Darth Ender does his new rough cut... I am going to revise mine in many ways but this may or may not make it.

Ronster said:

TheOdo your explaination is good but you did not answer how you will attempt to accomplish the "threat" with any scenes breakdown like pruposed changes so it would appear that the empire is spread thin across the galaxy.... Or How do you intend to show the oppression in the galaxy?

The "spread thin throughout the galaxy" line isn't mine, it's Mon Mothma's. If there's a problem with not seeing the oppression across the galaxy that this entails, it's a problem with the original film, not with my proposal.

As for the threat, I had thought of having Vader arrive at the Palace and head straight to the Emperor's throne room. He would talk with Palpatine - who would remain unseen on his throne, looking out his window at the landscape - and they would discuss the imminent threat of a Rebel attack.

The Emperor's confidence in the face of this would be enough to alert the audience that something is up and that the attack may not go smoothly. Vader would then exit the throne room and have his telepathic communication with Luke. We would then cut to Dagobah, where Luke has completed his training. The deleted saber building episode would be transplanted to the dark side cave on Dagobah, then we'd cut to Yoda's death.

How do you even plan to show the emporer as a dictator? I am referecing his arrival at the death star where pretty much all He and Vader does is talk about is Deathstar being completed and Luke?

For one thing, the exterior of the Palace would feature a statue of the Emperor, showing all the grandeur and egoism of a dictatorship. Much of the Death Star conversation would be moved to earlier in the film in an edited form. The "everything is proceeding as I have foreseen" moment is what would start the film. There's also his vantage point. The tower that contains his throne room would be situated on top of a massive Palace, which, along with the statues and other imagery on the exterior of the palace, suggests dictatorship perfectly well to me.

and then it's the same again you have not thought about it....Vader travels from Corusant To Endor to witness lukes pressence flys back to corusant to tell the emporer then goes back to endor to get luke to bring him back to corusant.... Sorry man I'd rather watch the original...

I'm not sure I understand.

Vader's jumping around from the command ship, to the Death Star and back again happens in the original film as well. That's no addition of mine. The only difference in my version is that he goes to the Palace's throne room, not the Death Star's throne room.

Look Pal, I don't think yout idea is rubbish far from it... The whole hang up is executing the corusant idea so keep going and I hope you can figure it all out.... I gave up on it because like I said before I do not believe you can make a good edit of ROTJ and do this Idea.... It does not mean it's a bad idea it just will be extraordinarily difficult to get it to sound, look and feel right so keep it going If you have all the answers make it happen

Still been busy.  I'll still try to get the vid up later today.

As for voting, don't forget everyone, YOUR VOTE IS DUE BY WEDNESDAY.  I won't have much time to be as actively involved (or overly involved, since I probably have about half the messages on this thread) after that point.  While several have come in, we still lack some participants, and I'd love everyone's input.

I'll try to comment on Coruscant and music cues ASAP.

I think you added an extra letter that changes the meaning of his name entirely.

As for the isolated scores, I like 'em, the father/son one especially.  I prefer it to the original.

Windows Movie Maker is now converting my edit into a single video.  I have some errands to run, so it should be done when I get back and I'll upload it then.

Ronster said:

Look Pal, I don't think yout idea is rubbish far from it... The whole hang up is executing the corusant idea so keep going and I hope you can figure it all out.... I gave up on it because like I said before I do not believe you can make a good edit of ROTJ and do this Idea.... It does not mean it's a bad idea it just will be extraordinarily difficult to get it to sound, look and feel right so keep it going If you have all the answers make it happen

Sure, I get it. It'd take a lot of work.

I didn't mean to come off as confrontational, I was just defending the idea.

Well, I came back and there was some issue with Movie Maker.  I'll try again, but that means I will not get this up till tomorrow.  I promise, no later than tomorrow and you'll have at your fingertips the most amazing crappy, low quality edit of the Battle of Endor evahhhhh!!!

darth_ender said:

I think you added an extra letter that changes the meaning of his name entirely.

...

darth_ender said:

As for voting, don't forget everyone, YOUR VOTE IS DO BY WEDNESDAY. 

:p

How dare you question the Lord of Spelling!

darth_ender said:

Well, I came back and there was some issue with Movie Maker.  I'll try again, but that means I will not get this up till tomorrow.  I promise, no later than tomorrow and you'll have at your fingertips the most amazing crappy, low quality edit of the Battle of Endor evahhhhh!!!

Have you cut the whole movie in rough? That would be a most outstanding effort man.... If it's only the end part that would still be cool....

Darth Ender sorry to do this publicly but I have changed my mind on one of my votes.... The idea of having the pyre on Tattooine has grown on me I would like to change this to a yes if it's possible but happy with the original otherwise....

My thoughts are this Lamda shuttle flying towrds tattooine cut back to celebrations on Endor then cut to SE celebration footage on tattooine instead of having the T-16 over mos-eisley swap this for a Lamda Shuttle (or add a Lamda shuttle?) in the celebrations. Once again cut away to Endor then cut to The Pyre is on a cliff and in the distance we see endless sand dunes go into the distance with 2 setting suns bathing gentle light over the curvy dune sea It pans up as usual to a night sky no force ghost no fireworks and no changes to music. In this case we do not see Luke on Endor celebrating it would need padding out from Endor Celebrations in the original version.

Also expanding upon the previous suggestion about Father & Son on Endor..... Showing a stronger more Violent Vader... Should the glass begin to crack in the tunnel behind Vader as he looks out of the window on Endor?...as if he is applying pressure from the force. I do not want to see it shatter only grow cracks as Vader looks out the window towards the camera. Wether this would include a flash back also of Vaders creation on the operating table or just the normal scene I will explore this later just ideas.

The key to destroying the Falcon lies with cutting Lando's "Yeeha!" and the weird Dude Laughing should probably be replaced with when he is asked to look up from the lost rebels deleted scenes.. The Yeeha would be silent and would serve a momment just before the Falcon explodes to look as if he is screaming. Fireball FX and so fourth after this before final destruction of Falcon and then DSII...

May I add this is my final ideas to explore I am now done with plot expansion/ changes and suggestions.

Looking forward to your rough cut Ender....

So  I actually really like TheoOdo's idea, and I think he's laid it out quite well.  The thing is I personally don't have any problem with the Death Star and don't think the Imperial Center is as likely a threat.  I find it hard to believe an empire with resources as vast as the Galactic Empire's would spread its forces so thin as to leave its capital guarded by an energy shield projected from a separate celestial body (considering also that planetary shields are established as capable of being projected from their own planet's surface, as on Hoth).

But I repeat, it's not unfathomable, as stories often hold internal logic that might not match with our concept of what is logical.  A story like this could certainly work and be entertaining.  I personally just like the original better.

Ronster, while you are right that a person should suggest how to accomplish their edits, I think he has done a fine job defending his idea.  Personally, I think it would be difficult but possible, and I think in many ways easier than trying to insert a great deal of new material in existing scenes, as the biggest visual changes would be matting.  I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems to me that Boba Fett coming out of Sarlaac would be harder, and flipping star destroyers would be too obvious.  My point is not to criticize anyone, but show that we should not be too hard on an edit we don't agree with.

Perhaps TheoOdo could alter the script to his liking as I have done with commentary included to explain how changes could be made.  This could at least show more clearly how possible it is.  As I've said before, this project does not have to be the end all of ROTJ edits, but rather a stepping stone to whatever sort of edit everyone wants to make.  Perhaps we will all learn new skills here to better make an edit of the sort we like by the time we get done with this.  Perhaps new collaborative projects will spring up.

Ronster, I have not completely cut the whole film, just the Battle of Endor.  I still wouldn't even call it complete based on our discussions and the way voting can go, but it illustrates some of the ideas we've mentioned (using stills in a couple of points, for instance), and trying to include Madine.  We'll see how it turns out for you guys.  I'm splitting it into three rars because most free file sharing accounts don't let you share anything bigger than 200 mb and this is over 500.  But it will be up soon.

It's okay that you changed your vote and that you did it publicly.  This doesn't force us to do anything, but merely gives us a stronger sense of "the will of the people," so to speak, so we know the best way to advance the story to the majority's liking.  I'll note the change.

I'm pondering your ideas.  My first thought regards the need for padding: I personally feel that it is acceptable to see Luke on Tatooine.  We simply would assume that he traveled back to Tatooine, and I don't think we'd need to see him travel there.  I'd like to first see him at the celebration, and then later on Tatooine.  No need for explanation, just that he soon took his dad's body there to be burned.  I do like your visualization of the cliff and sunsets, though.

As for more violent Vader, cracking the glass could be interesting.  I of course always assumed it was simply an open platform, but that doesn't preclude the glass from being there and cracking.  I think it'd be interesting to see Vader lose his cool a bit, since he always does everything so coldly, except when he first talks to Palpatine after donning his armor and breaks the medical unit in ROTS.

I think the Falcon would be easy to destroy, and my big concern is the lack of emotion from the lead characters after his death.  It'd be like no one even mourned his loss.  And MrInsaneA is telling us that if he dies, our world will spin out of control too, so I'm not sure I want that to happen :)  How would you show the character's, particularly Han's, sense of loss?  That would be key, otherwise the emotion of his sacrifice simply won't be very emotional.