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Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 6

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So just thinking more about the Endor thing, I guess people don't like it because it doesn't seem exotic enough (at least that's part of the problem).  It seems that if Aalenfae and/or Angel are willing to incorporate many of the brilliant suggestions and mattes (most of which were created by Angel anyway) into our edit, the planet would appear far more exotic.  I'm certainly not opposed to that.

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DominicCobb said:

Ronster said:

OK as promised my Bobba Fett Inspiration for the CGI Experts

Not sure if it is possible so I hope Angel, Alanfae and Mithrandir can take a look.... It's the best I could do, and it's a better way for Bobba to go...than what is there at the momment if it could be pulled off.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gtsq72vys7i7lz4

it will make you laugh either way but it's not stupid like in the original

I let the last clip run to the end just so you know it does not effect other shots later on... I had to do quite a few flips to get this to come off... Basically it is some roto in and roto out work. I think the roto in is easy but the roto out will be a bit trickier but sand and sky I am sure is quite easy anyway Enjoy!

@fishmanlee I think elements of the Jerry Goldsmith Planet of the apes score might work well before the action around the sarlac pit.

Wow, if all the continuity could be fixed through CGI, this would be my ideal end for Boba Fett. I especially like that he's now the one to shoot Luke's hand. Only thing there that won't work is that one shot of Boba's helmet lying on the ground, it doesn't make sense because he's already in the Sarlaac.

I was trying to show that luke chop his head off?!?

Jango went the same way so it seemed to fit somewhat, probably does not need to stay as a shot on his severed head for so long, but only to serve as better than what is already in the original....

Difficult that was to know what to do i mean...  I did my best with it, you cannot have a scene like ROTS because Luke cannot meet the other 50% of the video shots.

I'm sorry but IMO i would rather see shoulder tapping bollocks than "I have decided to stay here" line from C3PO so whoever put that sequence together does not know and is not even on the same page as where we are trying to go.

Fixing ROTJ does not not leave out shoulder tapping....Lol only kidding but i don't particularly like the idea IMHO

Endor is where ROTJ is at so best get used to it.

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darth_ender said:

Just watched both your clips, Ronster.  My thoughts:

Obviously you are not a fan of Luke/Leia being brother and sister.  Your cut works surprisingly well, though it would be good to redub his line from "Then you know why I have to face him," to ""Now you know why I have to face him."  Cutting Han's jealousy worked well too.

I personally like the shuttle entering the DS.  Since it's reused ROTJ footage, and since Adywan is planning on cutting the shuttle heading to Executor in ESB, I'd suggest instead that that footage be used for the most part.

I see you like a lot of what I did :)

I know Spence put the entirety (or at the majority) of the sword fight together.  I personally like the fight split between other battles personally for at least a couple of reasons: 1) it gives the battle a feeling of greater length and therefore feels like more of a struggle; 2) the various simultaneous battles climax at about the same time instead of seeing one climax, then having a breather, then another, then a breather, etc.

Also in your rearrangement, the Executor crashes into the Death Star before the shield is down.  I suppose if we were to cut it that way it could crash into the shield instead, but we'd have to cut out the dudes running around the DS corridors.

I truly like the idea of Leia getting shot just before Vader taunts Luke about her, but it's too quick a shot to care, and we don't see her in much trouble there or afterwards.  Obviously if we were to do that, we'd have to remove her from the storming of the bunker afterwards, especially if you plan to keep her shooting those other guys when she's injured.  Or else you'd need to remove that completely and make her wound seem rather minor, which then defeats the purpose of showing her get shot.  If you found a way to make her injury not appear so overly fast and create a more perilous mood, then I could see it being more successfully pulled off.

I know I said I like ROTJ better than others which probably leaves me more willing to leave some things as they are.  I don't personally feel the need to rearrange so many of the end clips.  I really hope this doesn't offend you, and it's only my opinion.  We are a team.

As for Boba Fett, if you could successfully pull some of that stuff off (especially Boba shooting him in the hand), I'd say that's a much better way to go.  I don't much care for his head falling on the ground, but otherwise it's interesting.  The thing is that I don't know how possible it is.  It looks a bit complex for our special effects guys.

This is my feedback.  Hope you take it as constructive criticism.  I'm always open to the same for my contributions.  It's the only way to make progress.

Yes completely constructive and understand your thoughts...

Yes I am a fan of Luke & leia being brother and Sister but Luke does not tell her that she is his sister... think about that... he is also trying to protect her. Also Luke gives her away when he senses she is in pain and Vader begs Luke to tell his Sister / daughter that "you were right about me" it adds even more emotion and i could not help but see this as the way to go.

agreed on the redub if possible

like i said the 3rd act suffered too much from trying to show too much at any one time, flitting between DSII / Endor and Space battle so I decided get the plot in question out the way as much as possible in one go... and the shield should be down when the executor crashes into DSII so your right this needs to change... Perhaps Ackbar can say "The Shield is Down, Concentrate all fire power on that superstar destroyer we need to give those fighters more time" Join his big lines together is perhaps the fix move the shield generator blowing up to an earlier point most definatley

no Leia shooting the other guys although outside in my edit is actually inside.... Hope you can see what I was trying t acomplish probably flip that shot as it's on the wrong side if you feel it would work....and need CGI to be inside.

Dudes running around DS Corridors can go no problem, was just as filler.

Hey Regards leia being injured I only have the original source material to work with here so.....I did my best

I think Darth_ender we are somewhat on the same page as to trying to make the best ROTJ... I hope we do eventually. And I'm glad you watched my take on it not bad for being hungover eh?

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Alright, what I typed didn't really match up with what I meant. The shot of Boba's head comes too long after the shot of Boba falling into the Sarlaac, and it just seems a little weird.

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DominicCobb said:

Alright, what I typed didn't really match up with what I meant. The shot of Boba's head comes too long after the shot of Boba falling into the Sarlaac, and it just seems a little weird.

Do you think we need to see his head first and then his body?

or only 1 or the other... .

Thanks for watching this,

Should his head be on the sand or on the skiff it is only suggestions anyway

It was my first attempt at trying to fix Bobba....would have to recut it to see what it was like

either way I'm not sure if what I suggest is possible but speaking to a mate last night he seems to think most things are possible with CGI and this is not too radical IMO

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fishmanlee said:

darth_ender said:

Ronster said:

my favourite line....So Far

Oola and the fat female dancer performs... Lapti Nek is much sleazier and fits the setting better IMO

I hate both songs and the accompanying puppets or CGI characters.  Not to mention there is little need for this scene except establishing a trap door that leads to something scary.  I think it would be best just to see Oola dancing to a much better song briefly, Jabba tries to pull her close, she resists and falls to her death.  However if I'm in the minority here, this of course can stay.

How about something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouCyHrFVhgg (at 3:34)


I understand what you mean somone already had a go at intergrating lapti-nek with SE.....see here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShRgJTHewxE&feature=related

In the Original though I don't want to loose the screams from below... Poor Oola....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebjptd6Kgo&feature=related

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So I'm going to try to get the script finished before Christmas.  Like I said, most changes are at the beginning and end.

I want to make sure we don't lose too much steam on this project, so I guess now would be the time to ask what Angel and Aalenfae are willing to do.  I believe Angel created most of the mattes and such on the wishlist.  Which of those are you interested in doing?  If you were to ask for my preference, I would say all of them!  They really are stunning.  Aalenfae, what kinds of changes are you able and willing to make?  Your CGI mockup looked great as a start, and I'm wondering if you can produce even more realistic ships and the like.  Is what we are discussing even fair to ask of you?

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darth_ender said:

I want to make sure we don't lose too much steam on this project, so I guess now would be the time to ask what Angel and Aalenfae are willing to do.  I believe Angel created most of the mattes and such on the wishlist.  Which of those are you interested in doing?  If you were to ask for my preference, I would say all of them!  They really are stunning.  Aalenfae, what kinds of changes are you able and willing to make?  Your CGI mockup looked great as a start, and I'm wondering if you can produce even more realistic ships and the like.  Is what we are discussing even fair to ask of you?

What shots do you like? Note that many of the mattes i did were for preview reasons and they have to be created from scratch and to their 4 or 8K format for a film production.

Let me know what shots are you interested in.


-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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Angel said:

darth_ender said:

I want to make sure we don't lose too much steam on this project, so I guess now would be the time to ask what Angel and Aalenfae are willing to do.  I believe Angel created most of the mattes and such on the wishlist.  Which of those are you interested in doing?  If you were to ask for my preference, I would say all of them!  They really are stunning.  Aalenfae, what kinds of changes are you able and willing to make?  Your CGI mockup looked great as a start, and I'm wondering if you can produce even more realistic ships and the like.  Is what we are discussing even fair to ask of you?

What shots do you like? Note that many of the mattes i did were for preview reasons and they have to be created from scratch and to their 4 or 8K format for a film production.

Let me know what shots are you interested in.


-Angel

Angel, I don't understand compuer graphics intergration in Movies or compositing so please can you help me understand what is hard to do and what is easier for my story boarding. My friend said it's easy to do a still image in photoshop but when it comes to video it is more difficult?

The reason I am asking is because when I make any further mock up storyboard suggestions I do not want to be suggesting things that are not possible.... So please can you tell me is my bobba fett mock-up storyboard possible? And have people in mind when I come up with somthing.

I have no idea if my suggestions are either ridiculously difficult or relativley easy so some insight would really help me out or guidlines to keep within for the future. As the mock-ups on the wish list are only stills pretty much, and from what I can gather this is not so easy when putting it onto video.

Is the process similar to photoshopping each frame of the movie or more than that?

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I mainly do composition and the like. I can rotoscope, and I can also make mattes (but not nearly as well as Angel can).

Most of my work is in moving video - motion tracking, rotoscoping, etc. 

As far as CGI goes, most of my work is just in the composition, as I mainly used 3D models from Sci-Fi 3D. But I could definitely render them more realistically and such.

 

Basically, I can do a little bit of everything, and I'm pretty confident I can at least partially do many of the visual changes you would like to do. I can't know for sure until I know what will be done shot-by-shot. 

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Ronster said:

Angel, I don't understand computer graphics intergration in Movies or compositing so please can you help me understand what is hard to do and what is easier for my story boarding.

My friend said it's easy to do a still image in photoshop but when it comes to video it is more difficult?

Storyboards is maybe the most important part after the script is done.

They can be vary from styles but specific for movies you can either start from scratch or yes you can take a still image and indicate the action with arrows and text. (like a comic strip)

In video the Storyboard can be more fun to do when you can crude animate the shots in 2d but 3d previz like Aal did :). Its important laying out the shot you want by calculating all the time of the shot, the colors the dialogue and possible additions to it.

In still image yes easier quicker. The video can last a bit longer to make it but even crude can prove an idea and pre vizualise the concept.


The reason I am asking is because when I make any further mock up storyboard suggestions I do not want to be suggesting things that are not possible.... So please can you tell me is my bobba fett mock-up storyboard possible? And have people in mind when I come up with somthing.

Thats the most interesting part. What is done and what is not. First is to see the resources... For example you cant expect have boba fett in an weird angle when the available footage cant give you this opportunity. Or if jango fett from AOTC suits for a shot, the suit differences are are so vast even with recoloring cant make him a good looking boba fett.

Checking continuity to the film quality and light conditions is important intergrading two or more elements into a scene.

Second are the static environments. That means an environment that can be created with not worrying about the motion and perspective changes. This can be a simple patch of hiding something or adding something to a static shot.Most commonly used because they are easy to make but hard to rotoscope(time consuming)

3d Motion tracking shots. This is the tricky one. 3d tracking the shot by excluding the actors and applying on top 3d geometry if needed. Not all the shots from an already filmed movie is possible(lack of trackers and raw material)

New 3d renders and landscapes. What the title says. new shots completely from 3d and post effects. Depends the level of knowledge you have or your budget to hire a small indie studio to make the shot for you ;)

Prop making and prop shooting/photography: Make props replace shots have that original look. Rent some studio equipment and start shooting.

Depends of how far you can you can go with this idea (im not gonna mention actors of live action footage yet because it can get tricky)

 

I have no idea if my suggestions are either ridiculously difficult or relativley easy so some insight would really help me out or guidlines to keep within for the future. As the mock-ups on the wish list are only stills pretty much, and from what I can gather this is not so easy when putting it onto video.

Taking movie stills is a good start for storyboards. Always notice the camera movement so you know where you can place a new element or you want to replace/rescale the shot to fit somewhere else. Avoid flipped shots unless they are not affecting crusial details from the character.

 

Is the process similar to photoshopping each frame of the movie or more than that?

I dont thing for expressing or demonstrating an idea should be a top notch quality as an ending result. Photoshoping each frame is the same thing as rotoscoping each frame. That step is the final when the final effects renders and filters come in place in post :)


-Angel

 

–>Artwork<–**

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Ronster said:

DominicCobb said:

Alright, what I typed didn't really match up with what I meant. The shot of Boba's head comes too long after the shot of Boba falling into the Sarlaac, and it just seems a little weird.

Do you think we need to see his head first and then his body?

or only 1 or the other... .

Thanks for watching this,

Should his head be on the sand or on the skiff it is only suggestions anyway

It was my first attempt at trying to fix Bobba....would have to recut it to see what it was like

either way I'm not sure if what I suggest is possible but speaking to a mate last night he seems to think most things are possible with CGI and this is not too radical IMO

Yeah I was thinking one or the other. I feel once he's in the Sarlaac we're done with him. And his head would probably be in the sand.

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aalenfae said:

I mainly do composition and the like. I can rotoscope, and I can also make mattes (but not nearly as well as Angel can).

Most of my work is in moving video - motion tracking, rotoscoping, etc. 

As far as CGI goes, most of my work is just in the composition, as I mainly used 3D models from Sci-Fi 3D. But I could definitely render them more realistically and such.

 

Basically, I can do a little bit of everything, and I'm pretty confident I can at least partially do many of the visual changes you would like to do. I can't know for sure until I know what will be done shot-by-shot. 

Thanks for your reply... Check the link on the previous page... There is a breakdown but somthings I did not point out...that would need fixing Basically I just do not want to make pie in the sky suggestions, I want to be realistic about my ideas.

And obviously cheat in the easiests ways possible if you get my meaning.

I am also curious about the actual Final Video footage would probably have to be downgraded to that of the deleted scenes? is it possible to convert the video down and enhance the deleted scenes to make it meet somwhere in the middle?

@dominiccobb

Yeah I was thinking one or the other. I feel once he's in the Sarlaac we're done with him. And his head would probably be in the sand.

yeah very quick shot of head in the sand then transition to body in the pit makes more sence. I think somehow it makes jabbas reaction funnier in a way with his head being the last thing we see...but like you say it feels a bit weird.

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I still feel very excited about this.  I guess the best way to show which shots I like may be to simply include them as little pictures in the script.  I really love what you've done.  However, since this is a collaborative edit, and since you will be the one doing most of this sort of work, you certainly should make your own call on most of these.  We can suggest, but I think you are the one with the final say on all such matters.

As for CGI in the battle scenes (where I personally think it would be most useful) when I finish the script I can some rough storyboard illustrations.  They will probably not be great, but at least they'll give an idea of what I would envision.

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Might I suggest that, at some point, we do a sort of Virtual Edition Style script? Check out the links of the left side of that site to see what I mean. Basically, an illustrated script, though I could do without all the click-throughs. That way, we can put up visualizations as they come. One of the problems with the Wishlist thread is a huge lack of organization. Maybe sequencing visualizations would help.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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woah Angel,

I guess i am a bit flabbergasted by your answer because theres alot to it that i could not even begin to fathom, on a first read.

Taking movie stills is a good start for storyboards. Always notice the camera movement so you know where you can place a new element or you want to replace/rescale the shot to fit somewhere else. Avoid flipped shots unless they are not affecting crusial details from the character.

If it's better for you folks for me to do stills then I'll do that in future, and mark it up.

So lighting in 2 elements makes a big difference also I will definatley keep this in mind. But I am not really an Visual Artist, so any stills that I do might be of poor quality but I will hope it can be interpreted.

I was flipping shots with the sequence I did like crazy to get it to work, so re-using elements if you will some of that could probably go it was a first attempt anyhow.

I'll try and get to grips with gimp editor, for my stills I literally been playing with footage and seeing what could work and what don't as it's already existing. But I will convey any further story boarding in Stills.

Thanks for your Post it has helped me understand a bit better....

I think it's already at about 60% thrashed out.. It's the first act thats the problem IMO. My ideas will always try to include exiting footage anyway...

I can do some sound edit work to good effect like SFX or Dubbing in sounds so ask me on that if anyone wants sounds or music too.

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That's a great idea, timdiggerm.  Is there an easy website that allows one to do that, as I don't feel like starting a new one myself?

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Not sure if you guys know this or not, but Vegas pro 10 can work with VOB files, I am telling everyone about this, because I use Vegas, and I thought we should all be using somewhat the same programs so we can use each others files and not have to worry about file formats.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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darth_ender said:

That's a great idea, timdiggerm.  Is there an easy website that allows one to do that, as I don't feel like starting a new one myself?

Google Docs lets you share a document between people, collaborative editing, revision history, etc. How's that sound?

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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timdiggerm wrote: Google Docs lets you share a document between people, collaborative editing, revision history, etc. How's that sound?

Over in this thread:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Shot-List-Spreadsheet-v0505-6-films-publicly-editable/topic/13403/

All 6 Star Wars films, every shot has been listed in a google doc.  There is a publicly editable version which anyone can take (SAVE AS) and do whatever they want.  This could be a possibly way to quickly push and pull scenes to see how a possible edit might read.

take it, go nuts.

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I'll take a look when I get the chance.  I'm excited about our progress, guys.  Even if we still have plenty to go, we are really generating lots of good ideas! I'll upload my nearly done script soon, and then I'll transfer it over to such a site.

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DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

What luck!  Our team may finally be complete (or mostly complete).  Emanswfan is fixing up the deleted scenes and is working on the ROTJ scenes in particular right now.  I'm not sure if he wants to be an official contributor here, but I know I really would appreciate his efforts:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Deleted-Scenes-Reincorporated/post/555996/#TopicPost555996

Thank the maker!

Tis good news indeed, cannot wait to get rolling..

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8926/theexchangesmall.jpg[/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Concept Art for the exchange

Got to grips with Gimp Editor and this is one of my first concepts don't want to divulge too much about this because I have not figured it all out as a solid concept as yet but involves a short sequence similar to gangster movies exchanging a briefcase. Except the briefcase is a droid. Star wars answer to the USB Data stick hehe....No need for any actors either. "toss the briefcase over here" if you think along those lines and a double cross thats where I am headed cliched scene but in a star wars universe...Bounty hunting lucrative work when you get paid twice for doing the same job hehe.... but not quite ready on submitting the full idea as of yet. You need to click the box to see it on the page for some reason probably advertising.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/theexchange.jpg/