darth_ender said:
But I do feel that at the present, CGI still lacks some of the realism of puppetry (while obviously excelling it in some aspects). That is why I prefer a sort of hybrid, with the puppet forming the basis and the CGI simply improving without replacing.
The word you're looking for is "gravity". A lot of the CG creature work out there doesn't correctly - or at least doesn't completely - address how a body and related surfaces move and react to each other. There are so many subtle things that happen with surface density, material weight, force of impact and substance pliability that both the CG animation programming and animator's manual adjustments have yet to completely account for. Granted, some of it is purposely ignored in the interests of giving an action sequence more impact and "wow" factor but there's plenty more where it's not done simply out of laziness or because the people involved simply don't have a good eye for what it should look like. There are so many things that your brain picks up on a subconscious level as to whether an object is real or not that CG hasn't completely accounted for yet.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
Ziz said:
There are so many things that your brain picks up on a subconscious level as to whether an object is real or not that CG hasn't completely accounted for yet.
CG and puppets. Both have their advantages and flaws.
A lot of the CG creature work out there doesn't correctly - or at least doesn't completely - address how a body and related surfaces move and react to each other.
I think a lot of that was fixed in LOTR, by recording Andy Serkis' movements to create Gollum. Perhaps Warwick Davis could do the same for Yoda?
Yeah, motion capture helps with speed of movement but the actual images that get overlaid onto that movement still have to interact with the environment correctly. That's the part CG is still trying to perfect.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
I can't see trading one kind of fakeness for another. (A newer kind that doesn't resemble the period the movie was made, unlike everything around it). It might be different if there was even one shot in the whole prequel trilogy where he looked utterly real (not talking about where he looks cool or has great non-puppety movement, but where he looks like he just walked on the soundstage, had coffee, and then they merely photographed him). Honestly I can't think of one.
I actually prefer the puppet Yoda in EpI. One of the reasons I'm considering doing TPM Despecialized.
while I have no problem believing that CG Yoda in the prequal trilogy and the puppet version from the original trilogy are one and the same character, to intercut both versions into the same film and the differences are going to be glaringly obvious, and I much prefer the subtlety of the original performance
Says who?
buddy-x-wing said:
to intercut both versions into the same film and the differences are going to be glaringly obvious
TV's Frink said:
Says who?
buddy-x-wing said:
to intercut both versions into the same film and the differences are going to be glaringly obvious
The difference between the Standard Def. Yoda, and the HD Yoda, is completely obvious.
The HD version almost looks like a real puppet.
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TV's Frink said:
Says who?
buddy-x-wing said:
to intercut both versions into the same film and the differences are going to be glaringly obvious
Jake Lloyd is the puppet.
Right?
Since they're like poetry, what with the rhyming and all, I find that I only need to watch three out of the six films.
No, he's CGI.
Well after seeing Yoda on the new TPM 3D promotional poster i think the case is now at rest. Puppet Yoda wins... No one can really say that this green CG testicle with ears looks more realistic than the ESB puppet ;)
Actually, in that picture he REALly looks like a midget in a costume that reduced his neck to nothing :P
well, in that poster he does remind me of Eric the Midget.
So that's what Yoda looked like when he was younger! ;)
Seriously, what the hell happened to his wrinkles? They have botox in a galaxy far far away?
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
So that's what Yoda looked like when he was younger! ;)
Seriously, what the hell happened to his wrinkles? They have botox in a galaxy far far away?
like every Hollywood Diva, by the time episode 5 came about, Yoda was insisting that all his scenes were shot with Vaseline on the lens
The TPM puppet looked like crap so I'm all for replacing him with a version that matches his AOTC and ROTS appearance. Plus there's enough CG stuff in the prequels anyway that a little more isn't really going to make or break the films.
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But CPY (creepy puppet yoda) is really the only truly scary character in the film!
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I didn't like puppet yoda much. But at least he made me laugh. CG was way better in my honest opinion. But I don't think they should redo the scenes just for that.
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man, that poster sucks :( is that the uncanny valley I keep hearing about? cuz that yoda just looks unsettling.
[sigh] much better:
the new cgi yoda in TPM looks ok, but only because the puppet they used was horrible. i still can't believe how that was approved. but even in the rest of the PT, yoda's clothes have almost no detail. look at the picture above and see all the textures and then compare to PT.
walking_carpet said:
look at the picture above and see all the textures and then compare to PT.
Yep. Anyone who thinks Yodas clothes looked anywhere near realistic in the PT needs to stop playing so many video games and go out and see what things look like in the real world.
walking_carpet said:
but even in the rest of the PT, yoda's clothes have almost no detail. look at the picture above and see all the textures and then compare to PT.
On the other hand, compare the motion of the OT Yoda and PT Yoda. One is not overall better than the other. It all depends of the purpose.
Alexrd said:
walking_carpet said:
but even in the rest of the PT, yoda's clothes have almost no detail. look at the picture above and see all the textures and then compare to PT.
On the other hand, compare the motion of the OT Yoda and PT Yoda. One is not overall better than the other. It all depends of the purpose.
not counting the often silly action sequences, maybe so. but the idea behind cgi was not just animation but photorealism on top of it. we kept being told that the breakthrough with cgi was that photo-realistic objects can be created. remember that scene in TPM with captain tarpals saying 'your honor - queen amidala of the naboo' ? i don't think we ever saw that with yoda - except maybe in ROTS when he was on tantive IV talking with obi wan and bail organa. Poggle the Lesser in AOTC was better designed.
ray_afraid said:
Anyone who thinks Yodas clothes looked anywhere near realistic in the PT needs to stop playing so many video games and go out and see what things look like in the real world.
THIS!
Honestly, I believe we are looking at a generation who can't fully understand real. They've spent so long virtually experiencing life, that they don't seem to have an understanding of what real actually looks like or how it behaves (gravity, mass, light, shadow, movement, texture, etc).
[vent]
That may explain how all the idiots on Break and YouTube think you can jump from the roof of your house onto a card table and not break your spine. Strange, the lead character in the video game the day before just bounced, did a back flip, and came up shooting. He didn't need eight months of physical therapy just to relearn how to tie his shoes. Weird.
[/vent]
walking_carpet said:
Alexrd said:
walking_carpet said:
but even in the rest of the PT, yoda's clothes have almost no detail. look at the picture above and see all the textures and then compare to PT.
On the other hand, compare the motion of the OT Yoda and PT Yoda. One is not overall better than the other. It all depends of the purpose.
not counting the often silly action sequences, maybe so. but the idea behind cgi was not just animation but photorealism on top of it. we kept being told that the breakthrough with cgi was that photo-realistic objects can be created.
And isn't that what happened? It is photorealistic, even though we still realize they are digital characters/objects.