Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 2

I don't mind if you do not like my ideas so here is another for you!

It is a good idea to have the bothans stealing the plans as a new opening , so if you were to use a flipshot of the opening scene of episode IV replace the tantive with a Bothan frigate and change the planet surface to another?, could be a good place to start, and start ROTJ in a simlar fashion to A new hope.

You would need to show a command bridge with a Bothan putting the frigate into self destruct. so a Bothan Hand would be needed to push a button say.

show escape pods departing for the planets surface. but straight after have the Bothan Frigate self destruct before the star destroyers loading bay doors pull the frigate in for boarding.

This also makes their escape possible and show the star destroyer badly damaged as a result of an almost terror bombing tactic.

say 8 pods depart and the damaged Star destroyer mangers to take out 6 of them

Would it need explainong though?

My idea was a bit more extreme, and completely redesigned ROTJ. No more Jabba the Gangster, No more Bothan Spies, No more Rebel Costume cupboard.

It is a massive fan-film subplot about the the capture fo coruscant and using the dormant speratist fleet like the army of the dead in LOTR. Before you read on, realise that this plot line is not really about a sequence of events, but more about themes and an overall ending. Not all the ideas were properly worked out, and some of them stem for what MY perfect saga would be like. This would also be my ideal approach to the PT.

Anyway, the rough idea,

The crawl describes how since the events of ESB (we are now 5 years on) the empire has struggled more and more to keep the peace. Independent rebel insurgents (separate to the alliance), have by some miracle have caught the empire off guard and taken Coruscant. The Rebel Fleet (now much bigger) rush to their aide to help them keep the planet.

The rebels now are stuck in a take-and-hold scenario, and are in a constant battle to maintain their hold of the capital. This is how the film opens. We will follow some new characters, which would essentially replace ackbar, mon mothma and general nadine later on.

Either through exposition, or through even more footage, Rebel commandos breaking through a last Imperial Garrison encounter a command room, to which they see something terrifying.

Back to rebel command, our three leaders discuss the imperial strategy of guerilla tactics, how the war is finally at a turning point in the Rebel's favour, how pretty much every rebel staff member is now on coruscant, and that the emperor has disappeared. Suddenly an interruption from a commando, and then the same hologram of what they saw earlier with equally horrified expressions 'It cannot be!'. Then they ask about Princess Leia's current whereabouts, which would lead to Jabba's palace.

Film follows as usual.

The OMG moment characters keep getting turns out to be the Death Star II, which would be initially revealed in the briefing later on.

Jabba the Hutt would be set up to be the final surviving separatist leader in the PT as well as a gangster. Some additional character or device from his palace would allow the rebels to reactivate the droid fleet.

The Droid fleet is required to defend coruscant whilst a Rebel Task Force travel to Endor to attack the Death Star.

The Emperor escaped Coruscant as we already know, and it turned out to be part of his plan all along to get all the rebels in one place. He plans to use the Death Star to replace the capital (after blowing it up).

Luke and Vader's story will carry on as usual, but now will float around these much larger events.

New characters introduced in this new opening may continue appearing during the various battles. They could even feature in linked PT edits.

that's the problem no main characters but would serve meerly as classic star wars opening with a twist then transition to dagobah... Nothing explained, but would show the desperation in the fight against the empires tyranny.

The escape pod shot would be part the Tantive being captured and a modified version of the probe droids release from ESB opening.... flip em all to make it look more authentic. whilst using a shaking command deck shot, aboard the star destroyer with alarms along with the guy that does not shoot the escape pod from a new hope shooting a pod with CGI.

I'll always try to find an easier way before the suggestion new shots entrly btw

Oh and the escape pod should splash down into an ocean which would also help explain why they got away without having to say anything more about it.

it makes for an easy transition too. and easy to find footage for whilst not having to be descript.

kamino perhaps?

timdiggerm said:

Ronster said:

flip em all to make it look more authentic.

I'll always try to find an easier way before the suggestion new shots entrly btw

I'm sorry, but no. Flipping them doesn't look more authentic. For things like the Tantive Escape Pod, it will still be plenty easy to recognize.

No I mean just the camera shots..It would require designing a CGI / Model Escape Pod for A Bothan Frigate and a Bothan Frrigate entire and replace or modify existing escape pod / probe droid shots. if you catch my drift... 

Like I mean use the actor from a new hope pointing the gun at a cgi Bothan Frigate escape pod... and blow it up too for good effect.

It's a twist on the original like I said but modified to try to suit the needs of a new opening all be it a bit quirky...It's only suggestions and a lot eassier than from scratch because you will maintain the visual syle as opposed to all New CGI.. You want to keep it looking like the Original trilogy but modified. you do not want it to look like PT.

So I guess the plans would be stolen from Kamino? By Bothans who Crash back down onto Kamino's Oceans but escape with the plans eventually... Need some help here is this feasible or not i don't have good EU star wars History.

Even though they produced the storm troopers they also produced Anti Storm troopers? so they are a bit unstable politically so might this work? And make life easy an Escape Pod Crash Into a Stormy Ocean..... End of Intro - onto Dagobah "many Bothans Died" later on and we know because it resembles a new hope but twisted.

Wandering... Is it too nuts if ObiWan communicated with Vader at some point?

Vader's return could have deeper reasons than Luke. I think that the feel of being "conned" by the Emperor could be one of them.

Though this could add some "market" sense to Vader (and therefore, the story) , in terms of : 

EPIII: "I wanna be inmortal, the Emperor knows how, so Ill be a Sith"

EVI:" Remember that I wanted to be inmortal? Well, ObiWan figured out how, so Ill be a Jedi again. "

However, if we manage to keep that feeling off, I think that Anakin's past striking on Vader could emerge as an intreresting plot-line. We could use meditation chamber footage or standing on brdige footage to make it, I don't know.

Regarding what's been said about Vader being a strong character, my pov is that "strong" in terms of violence cames out when one is weak minded and conflicted. So I think that until the very end, Vader must come more closed to himself, less speaking and more violent. 

That's the natural reaction of a beast when he's in fear or pain; they can be quiet for hours not making a sound, but when you touch them, they attack you.

Greetings!

doubleofive said:

All I want is for someone to make a Fett-less version of RotJ. Just to show that it can be done.

Spence did it.

Mithrandir said:

Wandering... Is it too nuts if ObiWan communicated with Vader at some point?

Vader's return could have deeper reasons than Luke. I think that the feel of being "conned" by the Emperor could be one of them.

Though this could add some "market" sense to Vader (and therefore, the story) , in terms of : 

EPIII: "I wanna be inmortal, the Emperor knows how, so Ill be a Sith"

EVI:" Remember that I wanted to be inmortal? Well, ObiWan figured out how, so Ill be a Jedi again. "

 

However, if we manage to keep that feeling off, I think that Anakin's past striking on Vader could emerge as an intreresting plot-line. We could use meditation chamber footage or standing on brdige footage to make it, I don't know.

Regarding what's been said about Vader being a strong character, my pov is that "strong" in terms of violence cames out when one is weak minded and conflicted. So I think that until the very end, Vader must come more closed to himself, less speaking and more violent. 

That's the natural reaction of a beast when he's in fear or pain; they can be quiet for hours not making a sound, but when you touch them, they attack you.

 

Greetings!

Yes it is a good Idea, Obi-Wan new though in a new hope Vader was after all the Chosen one.... The only line you possibly would need is repeating "you can't win Darth..." For Vader to Hear Obi-wan say these words might make him realise the full meaning only now.And realise Obi-Wan was etherial

The teacher serves his final lesson

no need for the "Strike me down now..." no need to even see Obi-wan

When?... Possibly before the Emporers Arrival at Death star II

would that help your idea?

or in a flash back style start with the aforementioned Line and then

Emporer "He could be a great asset to us"

Luke "I'll never Join You!"

"you were the Chosen One!"

like voices in Vaders Head I'm probably overdoing it there i think....but the 1st idea might work well...

I am reading lots of interesting and unique ideas.  Let me here offer a suggestion for our consideration before we venture too far into a story that would be too difficult for even the best editors here to pull off with what we have available: what are the problems with ROTJ?  I'll make a list of what I've heard:

1) DSII--recycled idea
2) Ewoks--too cute, and their victory too unrealistic
3) Story--moves too slowly, lack of tension
4) Vader--too weak
5) Boba Fett--too cool to go that way
6) Jabba's Palace--too many cheesey puppets
7) Costumes--lower quality, too many reused

I'm sure there are more, but these are what come to mind immediately.  These are my thoughts regarding these flaws:

1) DSII--cliched, but there are differences, such as an attempted pre-emptive strike.  Sure there's already been a Death Star, but part of the difficulty with writing a sequel is the need to outdo previous stories without losing the story and internal reality created.
2) Ewoks--my rough cut addresses the unrealistic victory to some extent, and I believe that a little sound editing and short cuts could remove much of the cuteness and could even give them more of an aggressive edge.
3) Good editing can hopefully move the pace of the story along better, and I hope to show another rough cut of the Battle of Endor soon that could also allow for a much more tense climax when fully realized with high quality effects.
4) Vader--I personally am not sure I want him to appear stronger.  I'm interested in a more aggressive Vader as Mithrandir mentioned, but I believe I would prefer to keep his acquiescence to the Emperor in place.  It fulfills the emotional aspect of the story and is needed for the payoff in the end, IMO.
5) Boba Fett--I have been pondering all day how to keep him alive and have him later go down.  At first I thought about getting him on Endor and dying in a fast-draw with Han (I think this would be the ideal subplot--a personal faceoff), but I don't see a realistic way of pulling this off.  I then thought about keeping him in Slave I and having Lando and the Falcon take him down.  This is probably more feasible from a technical standpoint, but it would still be a difficult thing to pull off, and ultimately would be a story let down anyway since Lando's beef with Fett would not nearly be so strong.  So as 005 mentioned, it's probably best to simply remove him.
6) I would have no problem if we never saw Max Rebo's band (sorry mrebo, if you read this thread).  Even when I was a child and scared to death of Jabba, I thought the band looked very fake, like stuffed animals I'd keep in my bed.
7) Costumes--It'd be difficult to do much about the costumes, but I have to be honest that I would never have even noticed had it not been for the immensely keen eyes of OT.com members.  If most stayed the same, I'd have no problem.

My point to all this is that there are various lengths we could go to change this story, and many of them could be potentially interesting.  However, I suggest that we keep the story somewhat true to the original for several reasons: it would be easiest, as this is a new idea, and we want many of our efforts to be available to others with their edits, and if we change too much, there would be little left; we don't have the actors, models, costumes, funds, or crew at our disposal to pull off a complete rewrite; the original story is honestly not that bad in my opinion; much can be done to strengthen and streamline the existing story.

I hope my suggestions never come off as rude or domineering, as I certainly am not trying to be the leader of this discussion.  However, I feel that we should focus on what exists and simply improve upon it rather that remake it.

EDIT: As a PS, would anyone be opposed to me actually taking on the responsibility of script writing?  I'm always open to ideas and would share my scripte regularly.  Really I just plan on downloading a copy of the shooting script and making alterations.  As you guys read it, you could continue to make suggestions.  This is probably one of the very first steps we need to take to get this project off the ground, and from there we could probably get a better idea of how to incorporate our various thoughts and different visions.

Sounds good.  I just want it to be clear that I am not trying to hijack this whole idea.  I just figured someone needs to get the ball rolling, but I believe we need to all share in the fun and the glory.

Go for it! The faster things get moving, the better!

ROTJ Bit Broken

Hate Max Rebo...Lapti Nek anyday using elements of the SE / original footage

go for it on the script i'm game to chip in some ideas....

I have just been reading about the whole incorporation of the Corusant Plotline in the other thread and I hate to say it not being a fan of the PT that much but this is really the only way to make an edit of ROTJ shine out and make it work as a climax to the Saga... It's just a matter of how you do it.... I would have the Emperor visit the Death Star II but have the final duel on corusant... Luke would simply have to look at a Video Screen when being shown his friends demise. Luke carrying Vader would need a composite and so would Vaders Death (all of this would come after the destruction of DSII) but we would still need to see him leave to cremate him back on Endor. To set it up it needs a Transition from Endor to Corusant via shuttle. I will look into it later anyway. to figure out resources.

The big problem is the corusant riots IMO

I don't see the need to reclaim the Jedi Temple though...At this momment is unnecessary

Ewoks hmmmm.... Chop alot back where possible... Or CGI a nastier sharped tooth side to them. Cute on the outside but like vampires they can turn nasty might make them more of a force to be reckoned with. and a bit scary somehow. Can somone mock up an image of the scariest ewok pls. lol that is the whole problem they never snarl or growl. give em some nashers, wicket is set-up to show how they can turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3o_Ax6MIkU&feature=related

Costunmes I can live with.

Bobba fett agreed it will proably require using some footage from ROTS and coluring Jango in to match Bobba and re-use some of that but ultimatly have him bite the bullet on Tatooine via sarlac pit and han but just change the squence of events.

Change the story and make it better... worth a try and like you said do as little as possible but make it feasible.

So I was thinking about the stronger Vader, and while I like to see his cowering before his more powerful master, I think it'd still be nice to see him pushing around his underlings, and thought maybe I would include the Vader choking Jerjerrod scene.  However, I'm not certain, as I understand the reasoning for cutting it (I believe I read that the Vader choke had been overused).  What do you guys think?

Mithrandir said:

 

I think that's a scene that could work and needs to be in. Though the "difference" (in order not-to give the "overused" feeling) should be in the music. We have to find some piece of score that is dark, but not dramatic nor menacing.

In ESB is like "look, he's cold as shit, he just kills everyone who doesn't deliver properly" + menacing music. It's just about showing how badass Vader is.

ROTJ, which by definition is more focused on Vader's persona, and by this it could comprehend "why" he's so badass, could be either:

a) He chokes jerjerrod with rage, because he feels between the hammer and the anvil, so we should use some "rage, hurried music". (ROTS coral music, when grievous lands in Utapau comes to mind).

b) He kills with disdain. More in "who's this shit to interpose betwee the emperor and me?"... like Yoda does to the Royal Guard in ROTS too.

Either A or B, I think that ROTJ scenes where Vader is really hard-edge Vader don't abound and we should use it, albeit making some detail (since it's a not very trascendental scene, music is a "detail" and not a really important component of the scene) different.

 

I could read your scripts for this couple of mounths, I have some time until april.

 

Greetings!

 

yes this....

what do you think of this for basic structure

New Bothan Escape Opening

Dagobah - Yoda Dies

Luke flies to Tatooine - goes through Beggars Canyon need a new cgi transition anyway so thought I would suggest beggars canyon as a fly through.

Corusant Riots (possibly later)

Meets Ben in His house / hut

Vader goes to DSII Deleted Scene talks to luke / lightsabre construction

Jabbas Palace

Lapti-nek Redone

Sail Barge and escape

**** This is where the problems start ****

Lukes Hand and where does Luke go if not to Dagobah? Promise to an Old Friend?

Just had an Idea that if Luke goes back to Dagobah to the Cave? but there is nothing there? He failed the test before... Is it to do with Fear? if he fears nothing then nothing is there..... Trying to make this structure you proposed work somehow....it is mysterious the cave anyway perhaps do not need to show anything apart from the fact he goes back to the cave leave it up to the viewer once again the abstract meaning of it.

thats the best I can do with the current propesed structure so far. So a decision needs to be made on wether or not you want to keep Dagobah >>> Tattooine or keep it as the films original.

whoops

DominicCobb said:

doubleofive said:

All I want is for someone to make a Fett-less version of RotJ. Just to show that it can be done.

Spence did it.

Going to check the spence edit and learn from what has already been done before I post anymore ideas otherwise I am wasting my time.......but a decision needs to be made on what direction this edit is going to take....Mithrandir I'm all for showing more Conflicted and angry Vader... Darth Enders Take on Endor Battle is Good also.

It would seem spence's edit is largely agreeable

Essentially you need to nail down what is the main focus to do the edit?

What will be the main wow factor Involved.... I think the Answer May lie between Vader, Luke and the Emporer and evolving this with the deleted scemes as Mithrandir is suggesting. essentially chosing to use the deleted scenes means that the rest of the video quality will need to be of a similar fashion better than VHS but worse than DVD but don't be fooled when it comes to image quality it is the story that matters the most. And I think that this is where the strenghth in the edit must Lie.

darth_ender said:

I wish I were talented.

I hope my suggestion of keeping things closer to the original didn't turn anyone away.  I still hope we can keep a good energy for this.  My editing of the script is underway.  I imagine the biggest changes will be in the beginning and end.  When this is done (or perhaps when segments are done), I will post my progress which you guys can read and then provide suggestions.  I am being fairly conservative thus far in my edit, as I don't feel the plot needs as much work as others feel.  The biggest changes needed would be in the execution of certain scenes and plot points rather than the overall story.  However, as I said I'm open to ideas.  Posting your ideas here is a good way to keep the creative juices flowing, but when I submit a copy of the script for your consideration, I suggest you again provide any ideas you've already supplied with justification.

Spence edit has some good ideas, though it's not perfect IMHO.  Also the wishlist has great ideas.  Also getting ideas from the novel.  I think I can make this plot more intense with mostly what we already have at our disposal.

Is there anyone, by the way, who feels they have the skill to improve the quality of the deleted scenes?  If we could lock such a person in place, we may already have enough skill among existing volunteers to pull this thing off :)

To Aalenfae and Angel: how difficult would it be to change the background during the lightsaber construction scene?  What I'm thinking is compositing Luke into a Dagobah-like setting.  This would fit in right after Obi-Wan's conversation with him: "Bury your feelings deep down, Luke.  They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."  Cut to Vader in meditation chamber reaching out to Luke, then back to Luke in black robe constructing saber, but still on Dagobah.  Here he could be preparing for the duel Ben just told him about and brooding in his thoughts as well.  I'm not sure I would still keep this, but it seems like it might be an interesting way to keep the deleted scene.  Also, how hard would it be to remove his lightsaber from the preceding Dagobah scenes then?