The Big ESB Reveal — Page 6

Anchorhead said:

You not having an issue with it doesn't mean there isn't an issue within the fan base.

I'm not saying there isn't one. However, spliting the fan base between "TFNers" and "original fans" is not very accurate.

Anchorhead said:

To me, the films don't work together. They work as two very different sets.

I agree.

However, I also agree that if anyone is capable of properly reconciling them into one complete series, it's Adywan.

Alexrd said:

Anchorhead said:

You not having an issue with it doesn't mean there isn't an issue within the fan base.

I'm not saying there isn't one. However, spliting the fan base between "TFNers" and "original fans" is not very accurate.

Let me get this straight- A TFn'er and Anchorhead, our most stoic of Original Star Wars fans, can't even agree that there is a disagreement?

This has gotten way of out hand.

We should not have made this bargain....

You catch on pretty quick.

Well, here's a relevant video: 4 year old kid learns Vader is Luke's father

Cuchulainn said:

I'm not sure that it's such a big deal as the prequels are intended to be watched after the OT. Either that or Lucas is an even shittier writer than I thought.

I believe that Lucas has indicated that his intent is for PT movies to be viewed before the OT.  So as to your second sentence, QED.

timdiggerm said:

Well, here's a relevant video: 4 year old kid learns Vader is Luke's father

That kid makes Jake Lloyd look like a good actor.

But... he's not acting?

If it is indeed real, he is clearly mugging for the camera.  He'll have his own E! reality show by the end of the week.

It seems quite real. The kids know their father is recording them, maybe that he wants their reaction to what they're about to see. You have to take that consciousness of being recorded into account.

The little boy gasps with a look of real surprise in his eyes and then looks at the camera, at which point he does exaggerate the gaping mouth for a second, perhaps for the advantage of his father. That is hardly mugging for the camera. That distraction from the action on screen quickly melts away as the little boy then has a genuine look of disgust, not mock surprise. You see his face turn serious, his eyebrows furrow slightly. You can see him hoping that Vader is lying and then his face accepts the truth.

TV's Frink said:

 

Mrebo said:

...then his face accepts the truth.

So he searched his feelings?

 

His face did :p

I can imagine the anguish he must have felt at his age. Will be fun to have kids one day!

Cuchulainn said:

ReallyPuggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Cuchulainn said:

I'm not sure that it's such a big deal as the prequels are intended to be watched after the OT. Either that or Lucas is an even shittier writer than I thought.

I believe that Lucas has indicated that his intent is for PT movies to be viewed before the OT.  So as to your second sentence, QED.

Really? Jesus, he hasn't a clue, has he?

Good read on that here.

Just a thought on viewing order. I see several posts where people are saying something to the effect of "They are obviously made to be watched 4,5,6 then 1,2,3. That's the way they were made, that's the way us original fans saw em, and that's how someone new to the game should see em." How would someone new to the game know that's how they are supposed to watch em? And why do people seem to think that's how GL expects them to be viewed? The new BD saga set has em in order from 1-6, so I'd say that's confirmation that this is indeed the way GL expects people to watch the saga.

Back on topic, ruining the surprises of later episodes is like reading a book that begins by telling you how things will end and then proceeds to tell the story as if nothing was said.

ray_afraid said:

Back on topic, ruining the surprises of later episodes is like reading a book that begins by telling you how things will end and then proceeds to tell the story as if nothing was said.

In all fairness, it is possible to do this, but it requires extreme cleverness. The TV series "Columbo" worked this way... you saw the murder take place and knew who the murderer was, then you watched Columbo solve it.  But there were always surprises, and there was always the mystery of how he was going to solve the case.

To pull it off in the OT, would have required very clever writing to build a PT that preserved the surprises of the OT.  I don't see how it could be possible without making a PT that predates Yoda.  It would be clever to show yoda-like creatures living in the forest who annoying but who weren't Jedi, which would heighten the surprise in ESB when we learn that particular creature was a Jedi-master.  You could also show the Hutt as normal people who are progressively getting bigger through success and gluttony... culminating in ROTJ where we see the Hutt have gotten way bigger than the viewer even could have imagined.

ray_afraid said:

Back on topic, ruining the surprises of later episodes is like reading a book that begins by telling you how things will end and then proceeds to tell the story as if nothing was said.

Mrebo said:

Cuchulainn said:

ReallyPuggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Cuchulainn said:

I'm not sure that it's such a big deal as the prequels are intended to be watched after the OT. Either that or Lucas is an even shittier writer than I thought.

I believe that Lucas has indicated that his intent is for PT movies to be viewed before the OT.  So as to your second sentence, QED.

Really? Jesus, he hasn't a clue, has he?

Good read on that here.

 That link pretty much sums up what I was going to say.

 he will always insist that its meant to be viewed in numerical order.   Just as he will always insist that this was meant to be one big saga.  Of course it doesn't work because of how the movies are written and filmed. 

Even before TPM came out, I would have thought of the PT as a companion piece to the OT.  And its kinda cool to go back in time,  especially for the most storied movie series ever.  A lot of us felt that way.  And if you watch these movies, it doesn't take much to realize lucas was mindful of the fact everyone already saw the OT.    Besides the ESB reveal, thereare scores of other examples - just look at how the force is not really explained in detail until the OT. And why?  because there wouldn't be a need to.  Apologists say "well, thats because yoda and obi-wan lost their ways and it took them 20 years to rediscover the force".

I heard one interesting point that Lucas was able to get away with this 'expanded-saga' idea because alec guiness gave the impression he was not being entirely truthful when telling Luke about anakin's death.  Maybe so, but the way he handled Padme's death in ROTS given what was said in ROTJ just shows me he flat out does not give a shit about storytelling, period.

If 456123 does not work, I guess frink and 005 has the next best idea.  but instead of 451236, i would take it a step further and say 45 6(up to luke meeting vader on endor) 123 (minus padme's death) and then back to 6 ;P

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

ray_afraid said:

Back on topic, ruining the surprises of later episodes is like reading a book that begins by telling you how things will end and then proceeds to tell the story as if nothing was said.

In all fairness, it is possible to do this, but it requires extreme cleverness. The TV series "Columbo" worked this way... you saw the murder take place and knew who the murderer was, then you watched Columbo solve it.  But there were always surprises, and there was always the mystery of how he was going to solve the case.

yeah, it's possible and not even uncommon really. That's why I said "...and then proceeds to tell the rest of the story as if nothing was said". To pull off this storytelling style, you gotta keep in mind that the audience already knows what is usually the big mystery of the story and then make the story of how it all ended up that way unexpected and thrilling. When watching Star Wars from 1-6, there are no surprises. It's obvious early on by his words and actions that Annikin will fall to the darkside, which I guess was supposed to be the big unexpected turn of events in the PT. By the time we get to the OT and meet Luke, we already know more about him than he does and all the secrets of his parentage are already gone. So the big unexpected turn in Empire isn't unexpected at all.

ray_afraid said:

Back on topic, ruining the surprises of later episodes is like reading a book that begins by telling you how things will end and then proceeds to tell the story as if nothing was said.

Sort of like this then...

Bill Shake-y wrote:

"Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
Do with their death bury their parents' strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,
And the continuance of their parents' rage,
Which, but their children's end, nought could remove,
Is now the two hours' traffic of our stage;
The which if you with patient ears attend,

What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend."

Wait...

did I just use Shakespeare to semi-defend the prequels?

Fuck!

Quick, Quick. Come up with something to bring them down...

Erm...

Bill Shake-y wrote:

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, And signifying nothing."

The prequels remain undefended once again

:D