Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 61

Well, you can... not read certain threads... I guess?

DJ, it's true that your project is more in line with a strict interpretation of "preservations", while Harmy's is more of a recreation.

But I don't think Harmy's work qualifies as a fan edit, since that implies his final version is edited according to his own tastes. We all know Harmy's goal is to recreate the theatrical version. I'd call that a "virtual preservation".

Comparisons between Harmy's work and your own are natural. Some people will prefer one, some the other. The goals are the same, although the means are different. People just want to sit down and enjoy Star Wars without all the SE crap. 

As long as you explain in your thread that you feel the comparison to a native-HD source is not applicable, I think you're good. You pretty much already do that, as I've seen you say your project is "not for everyone".

I suppose we all have our own definitions.  Here are mine:

A fan-edit is when someone re-edits a film in an effort to improve on it by making changes, or combining films in various ways to make new films that didn't previously exist.  Adywan's SW Revisited and the Phantom Edit are examples of fan edits.

A preservation is when someone takes an existing film and digitizes it so that it can be made available for future generations, sometimes accompanied by cleaning or other fixes to counteract the deficiencies of the previous media. DJ's trilogy and the Puggo Grande are examples of preservations.

A restoration is when someone rebuilds something that once existed but no longer exists or is no longer available, out of whatever can be found that is similar, or by rebuliding missing components. Harmy's is an example of a restoration, because the theatrical version doesn't exist in HD and he has tried to rebuild it out of other parts.

My definitions of "preservation" and "restoration" come from how those terms would be used in the antique business. Sometimes restoring a piece of furniture requires replacing pieces of it with new wood. Thus, I don't consider Harmy's to be a fan-edit.  His "partly despecialized editions" that preceded his current work were fan edits, but his DEs are restorations, in my opinion.

It is hard to categorize Lucas' special editions.  They are sorta like fan-edits, but not made by fans.  They aren't even directors' cuts because he wasn't the director.  Maybe "executive producer's cuts" ??

There is no way in hell I would look at Harmy's Star Wars as Fan edits.  I think he way surpass that. I think of it was a restoration. Thats clear in the R2 canyon shot.  The Falcon blasting off.  The shot of the Sandcrawler..  ect.

Sure there are spots and gout scenes in there.

I have not seen DJ's Blu.  I am sure its amazing. And no one should not compare the two but both are preservations.

Except he didn't executive-produce Empire or Jedi. 

The '97 Editions will always have a special place in my heart - I can trace my entire interest in Star Wars to the trailer for the SEs - which is why I'm so grateful for Ady's AVCHD and the rest of the '97 preservations/restorations here (Lee Thorogood, GKar/Flunk/TB/Reivax &c)

While Harmy clearly makes subjective calls here - e.g. I don't like that the blue flare when the Star Destroyer passes by in the opening shot of SW is toned down - and uses techniques more commonly associated with fan edits, I think Puggo's 'restoration' is a good compromise term to describes works like Harmy's. 

I, like everyone else, am looking forward to project blu with great interest and high hopes

Jaskoen said:

 

Erikstormtrooper said:

People just want to sit down and enjoy Star Wars without all the SE crap.

This. We're all on the same side here, which is why we're here and not over at theforce.net or whatever.

 

Fixed

bilditup1 said:

Except he didn't executive-produce Empire or Jedi. 

 

That was exactly what he did.

I think of this project as a preservation, because I'm trying to preserve the experience of seeing SW in the cinemas when it came out.

I didn't say anything every time someone said the like DJ's work better, because I don't feel like I'm competing with DJ, our projects have similar goals but each appeals to different people.

bilditup1 said:

Except he didn't executive-produce Empire or Jedi. 

Have you looked at the credits?

Not to derail the thread any more (sorry Harmy), but I just wanted to chime in and add that DJ's right insofar as these two projects shouldn't really be compared.  Harmy's editions, although presented in near pristine video quality, don't succeed 100% in faithfully recreating the trilogy I grew up with.  In ANH, for example, the colours (e.g., scenes in Luke's garage, the binary sunset) and FX (e.g., the blockade runner's lasers) don't always capture the look of the original film.  My hat's off to Harmy for an amazing job on these films, but even he's admitted they are not perfect reconstructions.

Dark_jedi's editions, on the other hand, although perhaps not as finely-detailed (although I have yet to see the blu's), succeed in capturing the trilogy as it really was (colours, wipes, FX, etc.).  From the few hi-def samples d_j shared, it looks like he's successfully preserved SW as I remember it.

I see the value in both projects, and each has its appeal for me, but it really is comparing apples to oranges.  Ultimately, I see d_j's editions as Star Wars "untouched," and Harmy's as Star Wars "fine-tuned."

For what it's worth I always agreed with DJ that this is more a fan edit than a preservation, but it's probably been sorted here because people wouldn't think to look for an OUT recreation in the fanedit section (compared to the other kinds of projects there at least.)

Anyone who does a SW effort of any kind, and lets it get out into the public sphere, should realize that they are subjecting themselves to all manner of feedback -- praise, criticism, analysis, favorable and unfavorable criticism, comments from the peanut gallery, weird emails, flowers, rotten tomatoes, etc. etc. etc.  I've gotten very kind praise for my telecine efforts, but have also seen several instances (mostly on other forums) of people laughing and mocking and making fun of my work.  I've also gotten some funky emails.  But heck, as long as I find myself comparing, say, Harmy's vs. George's editions, then I should expect someone else to compare mine vs. others, and just accept that. As a species, that's one of the things we do... we like to compare things and share our opinions.  I find that being able to laugh at myself helps survive the critiques, and remembering that in the end it's all just personal taste.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I suppose we all have our own definitions.  Here are mine:

A fan-edit is when someone re-edits a film in an effort to improve on it by making changes, or combining films in various ways to make new films that didn't previously exist.  Adywan's SW Revisited and the Phantom Edit are examples of fan edits.

A preservation is when someone takes an existing film and digitizes it so that it can be made available for future generations, sometimes accompanied by cleaning or other fixes to counteract the deficiencies of the previous media. DJ's trilogy and the Puggo Grande are examples of preservations.

A restoration is when someone rebuilds something that once existed but no longer exists or is no longer available, out of whatever can be found that is similar, or by rebuliding missing components. Harmy's is an example of a restoration, because the theatrical version doesn't exist in HD and he has tried to rebuild it out of other parts.

...

Pretty much the same definitions as used in our fan project list.

Doesn't that list need a bit of update? ;-)

And I don't mind this discussion at all, guys. This thread doesn't get much activity now anyways and it's pretty much on topic anyway :-)

For what it's worth, DarkJedi's and Harmy's projects both grace my shelf at home.  Most people are probably happy with one or the other, but there's an even narrower niche that likes having both.  There's a Venn diagram somewhere in there.

I call DarkJedi's a "preservation" and Harmy's a "reconstruction", but that's just me.

dark_jedi said:

Hey, I do not care who likes what, or who dislikes what, my whole issue was the stupid ass comparing of a 4:3 LB DVD project to a HD sourced project, that to me was a dumb as hell comparison, if you guys here think that it is fair, good for you, but I certainly do not, I am happy that people here like Harmys work, I actually like some of it, but to me it is still not OT, sorry, that is how I feel(and Harmy knows this, we have talked a lot in PM's) and yes I do feel it is a fan edit, again sorry, that is my opinion, and if people here feel that this is a preservation\restoration, good, that is your opinion, we can all differ on that right? so in short, it just boils down to the comparisons, to me these are just fucking ridiculous is all, DVD to HD, what a fucking joke LMAO!

sorry Harmy, I will try and stay out for good this time.

 

Whoa whoa whoa, stop the clock.

You're getting awfully defensive about this.

Calling it a fan edit is kind of silly. It's a matter of semantics, so on some level one could consider this technically a fan edit since it's not working from a single dedicated source, but the fact is when someone refers to a "fan edit" it carries a definite connotation. It sort of implies that someone has taken something and purposefully altered it so it doesn't resemble the original presentation but rather reflects their own specific vision. Harmy is doing the opposite here, trying to recreate the theatrical presentation as faithfully as he can manage. Semantics aside, a project with that singular purpose isn't the kind that springs to mind when talking about fan edits... for me at least.

Then again, the exact descriptor attached to the project doesn't really matter to me in my book. It's the project itself, and its goal - that's what matters.