OT Blu Rays: Buying it Used

I don’t really have time to do this subject justice… but I think there’s a blatant oversimplification of market forces if you say:

Buying the Star Wars BDs on eBay won’t put money in George’s Pocket or contrubute to the sales of the BD set.

or worse:

I’m going to buy it on eBay when it comes out so that GL doesn’t get my money!

Actually, if you buy it from Amazon or Target or BestBuy or ebayGuy1111… no matter which one, George Lucas won’t get your money.  Amazon, Target, Best Buy or ebayGuy1111 will get your money.  They are resellers.  They bought something at some price, and resold it at another price.  They do this because they know they can make money as a reseller.  They wouldn’t do this if they knew they could not make money as a reseller.  At any rate- George Lucas has their money, they have your money, and you have some BDs that you shouldn’t have.

Obviously retailers know they will make money reselling the BDs, so they bought a bunch of them.  eBayers are also confident they will make some money, so they bought a bunch of them too.  Why?  Because there is a market for them to sell.

ESPECIALLY when you plan on buying something from ebay, and you announce it to the world, this gives eBayers that much more confidence in the existance of a market.

And, to rush to the summary, there are people that have the set (LFL) and people that want the set (people buying new or used) and countless middle men between.  Whether you buy it new or used, there are always middle men.  When you have a copy in your home, it comes from middle men.  But it originally came from LFL.

Bonus: If you are the high bidder on eBay, then the 2nd highest bidder will more than likely still buy a copy.  Either a used one, or a new one.  The fact is that you took one of the unique copies and gave it a home, increasing demand for the remaining unique copies.

That is all.

Please discuss.

*shakes fist*

DARN YOU XHONZI!

You and your logic and business skills!

Bingowings said:

Waiting until an overstocked Amazon reduces it's prices however reduces their resell profits and maybe encourages them to stock less Lucas sets in the future, reducing the amount that Lucas takes.

True.  Not as much as "just not buying it" though.

Thrift or charity shops are the best option for me because that route has no direct connection to Lucas and you are giving you money to a good cause.

Master Sifo-Dyas said:

Alas, buying 2nd hand (from your neighbour, who doesn't want them anymore, for example), is a different thing.

Lucasfilm still keeps the money he gave them, but they don't get your's - your neighbour get's it. So they sold one copy less.

This is also true.  Assuming your friend doesn't replace his/her copy.  But you are still taking a unique copy out of the martketplace.  Maybe your friend wouldn't actually sell it to anyone else, so it's either they keep it or you do.  Doesn't seem to really matter in this case.  Unless you encouraged the purchase in the first place.

The charity shop doesn't solicit specific goods- so that doesn't actually create a market pull to get more copies- but again it still takes a copy out of the market, increasing demand.

I meant to say this earlier, but there seems to be a bit of a double standardTM here:

1. Buy the O-OT used and then you've "given LFL your money" to be able to download preservations or fan-edits.

2. Buy the BDs used and you haven't given LFL your money.  Screw 'em!

Xhonzi's logic is sound, at least as far as resellers actively attempting to get a "piece of the action" is concerned.  You're just adding one more middleman and effectively spreading your money to more sources.  However, if you're genuinely buying it used, as in buying it from someone who originally bought it and then decided to no longer have it, then that's a different story.  You're not creating any more demand the product.  You're not creating a new middleman.  You're simply creating a situation wherein one unique copy is being effectively shared between two or more people, when it would previously have only been meant for one.

So for those people who feel compelled to hold out and buy it used, it would be more beneficial to wait, like Bingowings suggested, until the reseller market begins to dry up, prices drop, and chances improve that you're actually getting a "legitimate" used copy.

Doesn't effect me either way, since I have no intention of ever buying it, new or used, but it's good food for thought, xhonzi, especially since I have somewhat begrudgingly advocated that method without really thinking through all of its implications.

Gaffer Tape said:

Xhonzi's logic is sound...

Thanks!

However, if you're genuinely buying it used, as in buying it from someone who originally bought it and then decided to no longer have it, then that's a different story.  You're not creating any more demand the product.   You're simply creating a situation wherein one unique copy is being effectively shared between two or more people, when it would previously have only been meant for one.

Except you ARE still lowering supply.  If you buy it, someone else can't.  It doesn't have the same effect that buying it new would, but it will still have some effect.  You're increasing the "final destinations" for the BD by 1.

You're not creating a new middleman. 

And I'm not sure what you mean by saying that there isn't a new middleman.  In my post, I meant that the eBay seller is yet another middle man.  Maybe a new one, maybe not.  I don't think it matters.

Also, consider this: The fewer people buying on eBay (and the same number of Discs available) would generally mean lower bids.  The lower the price eBay copies are going for, the more competition there will be for the B&M or Online sellers, the lower the "new" prices will drop, the lower returns that retailers will earn, the less happy they'll be with stocking the item in the first place.

I only really wanted the bonus discs, so where does that leave me? ;)

xhonzi said:

Gaffer Tape said:

Xhonzi's logic is sound...

Thanks!

Welcome!

However, if you're genuinely buying it used, as in buying it from someone who originally bought it and then decided to no longer have it, then that's a different story.  You're not creating any more demand the product.   You're simply creating a situation wherein one unique copy is being effectively shared between two or more people, when it would previously have only been meant for one.

Except you ARE still lowering supply.  If you buy it, someone else can't.  It doesn't have the same effect that buying it new would, but it will still have some effect.  You're increasing the "final destinations" for the BD by 1.

But wouldn't that even out?  The person you're buying it from lowered the supply by one.  You repurchasing the same set gives it an added value of one.  Two people "benefitted" (and I use that term loosely here) from one set.  The only way in the instance I posited that that would generate more demand is if the demand for used copies of the sets exceeded the number of established owners willing to sell the set, leading to someone buying it new or from a reseller instead.  It's certainly possible, but I have a hard time believing that a niche demand (people insisting on buying it legitimately used) outpaces those who are interested in selling it, especially since the latter number is going to continue to grow over the next couple of months/years.

You're not creating a new middleman. 

And I'm not sure what you mean by saying that there isn't a new middleman.  In my post, I meant that the eBay seller is yet another middle man.  Maybe a new one, maybe not.  I don't think it matters.

Yes, I know what you meant.  I was referring to a situation where you actually are buying a "legtimately used" copy as opposed to just going to a reseller.  Technically, I guess that's still a new middleman.  Ostensibly, though, if you were buying a real used copy, it would cost substantially less than buying it for retail.  I suppose I was referring to the price markup of having an added middleman since that was the impression I thought you were making with that statement.

I recently bought the bonus disc from the 2004 DVD set (the one with "Empire of Dreams" on) from eBay. It cost me 99p plus postage.

I think the Royal Mail made more money out of me than George Lucas.

Maybe I'll buy The Phantom Menace BD in 2018.

Gaffer Tape said:

However, if you're genuinely buying it used, as in buying it from someone who originally bought it and then decided to no longer have it, then that's a different story.  You're not creating any more demand the product.   You're simply creating a situation wherein one unique copy is being effectively shared between two or more people, when it would previously have only been meant for one.

Except you ARE still lowering supply.  If you buy it, someone else can't.  It doesn't have the same effect that buying it new would, but it will still have some effect.  You're increasing the "final destinations" for the BD by 1.

But wouldn't that even out?  The person you're buying it from lowered the supply by one. 

It depends on whether they'd sell it to anyone but you.  If you are the only potential buyer, then it doesn't really make a difference.  But if they might have sold it to someone else- now they can't and that person will look elsewhere to also give it a permanent home.

On the other hand... if this person is only selling to you... and they know you'll pay them for it when they've "used it", then that might have encouraged them to make a purchase they wouldn't have otherwise made- knowing that they'll eventually resell it to you.  So, yes, two people used it instead of one, but the purchase was ultimately still made with your money.

These movies are perhaps different in a key way when compared to most other disposable entertainment.  People putting $80+ down on the set are not as likely to watch it once and then try to offload it on the next victim (as most, say, video games).  People are generally buying these to put on their shelves for all time.  Because, Hey!  It's Star Wars.  On Blu Ray. 

TV's Frink said:

The thread title has me confused.  Are we talking about prostitution?

You're looking for the "Paying for It" thread.

TheBoost said:

Yeah, I own the Spice Girls's entire discography, but I bought them used, so I'm still cool. :)

This isn't the "List The Music You Own" thread, Boosty.

I'm genuinely confused. Is the OP saying secondhand purchases do or don't create profit for Lucas? I guess the other posts suggest that xhonzi advocates not buying the BR at all if one does not agree with its quality/content.

Not buying from amazon or similar retailers means they might order fewer copies in the future to match lowered demand. Buying from ebay might work differently, though. I'm not sure what the "end result" is but each item ultimately was purchased from LFL and 20th Century Fox.

Well, I certainly advocate not buying it at all...

Anyway, to refer to xhonzi again, if there was another person looking to buy from the same seller of used goods, and person A got it, then person B would just find someone else to get it from.  Like I said, the ratio of people who will ONLY buy it used versus the number of people willing to sell it can't be that disproportionate, and the number will only grow in the buyer's favor as time goes on... up until a certain point, when those numbers will eventually reverse, but by that point, it will most likely be very small numbers on both ends.

The problem would lie in how dedicated a potential buyer would be in getting it used.  You'd be right if a person wants it used, someone else gets the product, and the person goes, "Well, fuck it.  I'll just go to the store."

georgec said:

I'm genuinely confused. Is the OP saying secondhand purchases do or don't create profit for Lucas? I guess the other posts suggest that xhonzi advocates not buying the BR at all if one does not agree with its quality/content.

Not buying from amazon or similar retailers means they might order fewer copies in the future to match lowered demand. Buying from ebay might work differently, though. I'm not sure what the "end result" is but each item ultimately was purchased from LFL and 20th Century Fox.

My point was that buying it used still participates in the market forces for the item.  So buying it used isn't some magic bullet that keeps the sale from making LFL some money.  (I think I used the magic bullet analogy incorrectly)

Even clearer: Buying it used will still give LFL some money.

Sure, buying it used will probably result in  less effect... so if you have to buy them... I guess buy them used.  But time and purchase cost are probably more critical factors than new/used.  i.e. it's probably better to buy them new on sale later than buying them used at full price now.

xhonzi said:

georgec said:

I'm genuinely confused. Is the OP saying secondhand purchases do or don't create profit for Lucas? I guess the other posts suggest that xhonzi advocates not buying the BR at all if one does not agree with its quality/content.

Not buying from amazon or similar retailers means they might order fewer copies in the future to match lowered demand. Buying from ebay might work differently, though. I'm not sure what the "end result" is but each item ultimately was purchased from LFL and 20th Century Fox.

My point was that buying it used still participates in the market forces for the item.  So buying it used isn't some magic bullet that keeps the sale from making LFL some money.  (I think I used the magic bullet analogy incorrectly)

Even clearer: Buying it used will still give LFL some money.

Sure, buying it used will probably result in  less effect... so if you have to buy them... I guess buy them used.  But time and purchase cost are probably more critical factors than new/used.  i.e. it's probably better to buy them new on sale later than buying them used at full price now.

Yea, that's what I thought you meant, and I agree 100%.

Someone, somewhere, had to buy a new copy and that profits LFL. Buying it used isn't "sticking it to the man."

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

TV's Frink said:

The thread title has me confused.  Are we talking about prostitution?

You're looking for the "Paying for It" thread.

So, just to make sure I understand, if I frequent a prostitute, Lucas gets some of my cash?

Only if she (...or he?) loves Star Wars.

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

TV's Frink said:

The thread title has me confused.  Are we talking about prostitution?

You're looking for the "Paying for It" thread.

So, just to make sure I understand, if I frequent a prostitute, Lucas gets some of my cash?

Only if it is Rick McCallum.