Now with 100% more Inception spoilers (was: xhonzi's Guide to Not Being Ignored by xhonzi (or to get your groove back)) — Page 7

doubleofive said:

You can watch the enhanced special features without watching the movie. But that's not the point.

I wondered if that was the option I saw.  Thanks for the clarification.

I can tell you that the Bootleg Director is not me, that much I know.

That does narrow it down.

As for act breaks, I'd break it down like this:

Act 1: Extraction and Building the Dream Team
Act 2: The first two levels of the Dream
Act 3: The snow level / Limbo

I might even be convinced that Limbo might be the entire third act. It definately ties up all of the plot points.

What do you see as the central problem?  I think this question is a tad problematic since, depending on your interpretation of the film, it could be very different.

The central problem of Inception is definitely "inception", but really whose?  Fischer's, as the straight interp of the movie would have you believe?  Or Cobb's?

If you say that Fischer's inception is the main problem of the film, then the movie is structured around the heist just like you'd think it would be.  Everything after Fischer's realization is just epilogue/wrapup.  Cobb's character issues are wrapped up, but that is not the "main problem."  BUT! If you follow the other theory- that all of the events are controlled to correct Cobb's problems... then the epilogue/wrapup is actually still the resolution of the problem and therefore still part of Act 3.

Are both interpretations valid?  Is it possible to say that the movie does indeed contain 2 parallel 3-Act structures- one for Fischer's problem/AKA the heist and the other for Cobb's problem, but only if you track with the nonconventional theory of the ending?

Interpretation 1:

The problem: Cobb and co are hired to "do a job" on Fischer.

Act 1- Introductions: The rules of dreams are introduced, some action is played out, most of the main characters are introduced, and Cobb accepts the job.  Cobb's "can't return home problem" is introduced.

I'm not sure if Ariadne's joining the team is Act 1 or 2.  Probably 1, but I don't think that's a necessary interpretation.  Usually there is some small resolution that marks the end of Act 1- maybe it's Ariadne coming back or the idea that everything is in place for the heist.

Act 2- The Problem Gets Worse: Certainly, within minutes of entering Fischer's dream, the problem gets worse.  Fischer is armed, Saito gets shot, Mal is more malificent, and we and the characters learn there is a deeper risk of death/insanity than we were previously lead to believe.  The Mr. X scenario wasn't in the plan and that might not go well.  And perhaps the coup de gracé- They miss the kick.

This makes for a relatively short Act 2.  With so much to introduce in Act 1, perhaps Act 2 was shorter to compensate.  Also, I'm not actually looking at scene start times, so maybe it's not as short as I think...

Act 3- The Problem gets resolved: Arthur figures out how to create a gravity free kick, Eames kills everybody, but Mal shoots Fischer.  (This could be where Act 2 ends- the actual lowest spot.  And then, 005, you'd be right about Limbo being pretty much Act 3, but then Act 3 is actually very short. ) Ariadne and Cobb go to limbo to rescue Fischer, Cobb explains his issues with Mal, and then conquers them, Fischer is rescued and solves his issue with his father, which ends the heist.

Epilogue- The Mopup: Cobb saved Saito, Cobb and Saito remain sane, Cobb returns to the US, and Cobb is reuinited with his kids.

OR IS HE?

I'll type up next.

That's it.  I'm leaving.

Mostly for C3PX.

Ziggy Stardust said:

I don't get it. I saw Inception, I played Fallout, and I'm still being ignored.

Seriously though, I think the reason I'm still being ignored is ridiculous.

Alright, I think I've waited long enough to discuss spoilers for this film.

;)

I rewatched it today, so here are some thoughts new and old:

I'm in the "everything was a dream" camp. The reason for this is because of the glaring plot hole regarding Limbo: There is no way to escape from it except to wait it out, yet Mal and Cobb seem to be able to wake up from it by simply killing themselves with a train. This is illogical, and throws everything else into question. For example, what kind of information regarding the rules of the dream should be trusted? I think that Cobb's account of how he and his wife got into Limbo is accurate to a point. They tried going deeper and deeper into the dream world, level by level until they reached bottom. But since a person cannot exit Limbo by dying, they simply must wait it out for however long they have been put under, which could expand into decades.

So it is clear that Mal and Cobb could not have actually woken up after the train incident. Everything after that is also a dream, but is Mal really present during the events of the movie? If they are both sharing a dream, why couldn't she attempt to contact him in the "real" world while he was trying to get back to his kids? The only way people sharing a dream can be entirely separated is if they are on different levels, and since a person can go no deeper than Limbo, the only explanation is that Mal was never in Limbo with Cobb, but instead is on a higher level of the original layered dream.

How were they separated? If they were to explore dreamspace together, and did so for a long time, there would be a real danger of one of them dying while under heavy sedation and dropping into Limbo without the other, leaving the other to return to wakefulness much quicker, at least from their point of view. This is how I interpret the events of the movie. Mal and Cobb were exploring dreamspace, Cobb was killed while they were sedated to go three levels down, and Mal was too afraid to go down after him, knowing that she may lose her mind down there. Cobb incorporated her into his Limbo however, and he built an entire world of (very similar) buildings. He lost his view of reality when he started building his memories (his memories, not hers) and the rest of the movie is him dealing with his emotional baggage of not spending time with his kids and trying to get back to some form of reality, as well as recognizing that the projection of his wife isn't real.

Incidentally, the totems are no use in determining whether you are or are not in a dream, for their behavior conforms to what you expect them to do. All they protect against is being fooled in another person's dream. Thus the movie is all Cobb's dream.

How's that for a necrobump?

Did anyone listen to my wife and I do a commentary on this movie with some friends?

http://maxhegel.podbean.com/2013/04/07/inception-commentary/

Because that's a thing that happened.

I would think if this was Mal actively going back into the dream world, she'd actually tell him as much, and not just try to kill him. She'd also show up in the top level instead of only when he goes deeper.

^And, telling her he incepted her wouldn't end her presence the way it does in the finale.

I stick by the wedding ring totem theory.

I still haven't seen Inception.

Someone wants to make an Inception board game.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/455211959/inceptor-the-game-of-your-dreams

We need to make sure this happens.

My theory: The entire movie was fictional.

doubleofive said:
We need to make sure this happens.

 Oh, so now "we" are working together on this one, are we?