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Which Batman film is your favorite? — Page 2

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TV's Frink said:

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but...

Is it possible that Ledger's performance is overrated due to the timing of this death?  I say yes.

It would be absurd to claim that it didn't hype it up to a mythical status - not just the timing itself, but the fact that this was an actor taking a surprisingly different, untypical role for the first time (as far as I'm aware), preparing for a month in an isolated hotel room, and giving so few interviews about the role (certainly none after the release, or on the DVD, as there usually are most of them), AND how convincing and powerful it ended up being.

The artist who, you could say, puts up a completely unexpected feat of brilliance and then suddenly vanishes - of course that boosts the hype, and the bias towards his performance.

But I'd say the praise it gets is deserved.

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Twooffour, don't you mean atypical, not untypical?

Augh!  I had to say it!  Don't shoot!

 

As for your comment, it rings true to me.

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I just looked up, untypical is a word :PD

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twooffour said:

I just looked up, untypical is a word :PD

Well..............atypical requires fewer keystrokes.  BOOYAH!

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I agree about TAS. For films:

Mask of the Phantasm used to be my #1.The reason it fell slightly was because it just doesn't have that full arc of a narrative film. At time it does feel like the direct to video movie it was originally meant to be. That said, it is still brilliant and I usually flip flop between my top two choices.

Virtual tie: 1. Returns 1. Mask of the Phantasm

3. Forever-has it's problems, but I like some of the elements that remained from the original Burton influenced version. And I think Kilmer is possibly the best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne.

4. Batman-still too much of a corporate product and lacking in the depth of Returns.

5. Batman '66-"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!" Completely ridiculous satirical look at comics, but I watched this 500 billion times as a kid since the series got pulled into rights hell.

6. Batman Begins-I didn't want another origin story, but I was surprised at how well this one worked. I enjoyed it while it lasted as another version of the character and looked forward to see what would be next.

Actively dislike:

7. The Dark Knight-took all of the elements from the first film I didn't like and did away with any of the one I did. I kept waiting for this film to go somewhere, but it didn't. And this lack of nearly anything somehow gives it the pretense of "importance"? Batman always has well thought out storylines so that even in their most convoluted state they don't seem like random snake pits and double crosses with a random line run through at the end to tie it together. Bad story construction, some editing and sound mixing mistakes, and they didn't know how or where to end the darn thing. IMO a mess. If they had really wanted to make a tortured realistic hero story, just show how Batman never can stop and how Bruce doesn't really exist and that in the end it doesn't really matter if there is such a vigilante. Okay, it's not bad-but it certainly does not in any circumstance deserve its reputation.

8. Batman & Robin-I was tempted to put this at #7. I don't loathe it oddly enough. I saw it theatrically and even as a 7 year old wondered what the heck had happened to the franchise. It's got production values. And some people talking. And some colors. And neon. And ICE! The thing that nagged at me was just how much was simply recycled from Forever: the sets, lighting, costumes, styles, neon, music, setpieces and so on. It is by no means the worst film ever made, but it is just a complete waste of time. An absolute waste, and you will feel disgusted with yourself by the time you finish because you realize you'll never get those two hours back again.

Then there are the other animated "movies". They usually feel just like extended episodes of the animated series. This usually hurts them because they really don't have enough story to pad that 60 minute or so runtime.

1. Return of the Joker uncut. Here's a movie. Not one for kids, but an actual storyline with depth and darkness and is not one you've seen before as a Batman fan. Really well done. And go for the Uncut edition. (now on Blu! Hah!) It has killings, deaths, and stuff deemed too intense for the kiddies. The Joker was not pleased.

2. The Batman versus Dracula. I tried this one on a longshot. What can I say? I'm a sucker for decent animated superheroes. The anime influenced designs work for creating a different Gotham, but what surprised me is storyline didn't suck. For example, there is a scene where BATMAN MUST FIGHT THE JOKER (WHO HAS BECOME A VAMPIRE) IN A DARKENED BLOODBANK WHERE HE CONSTANTLY FEEDS ON ALL OF THE BLOOD SUPPLY TO MAKE HIMSELF STRONGER! If that doesn't whet your appetite... Yeah, the story can be pretty cheesy at times but it is for kids after all. And there is a bit stolen from Son of Dracula. A nice find in a dollar bin.

3. Subzero. TAS Mr. Freeze is a brilliant creation, but this story really stays on ice. Gets tepid after a short time.

4. Mystery of the Batwoman. Can anybody say a random series episode that got extended for no apparent reason?

 

And the 40's serials! Okay, I haven't seen them. They're supposed to be pretty bad.

 

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captainsolo said:

 And this lack of nearly anything somehow gives it the pretense of "importance"? 

I think its "importance" is supposed to stem from the dilemmas, "social experiments" and the characters acting out different viewpoints on the end justifying means, holding to principles, or issues of human morality.

But in my opinion, it failed for doing this in a way too convenient, contrived matter.


A boat with citizens and convicts (and we're talking about Gotham here).
The citizens are represented by a loud-mouthed unpleasant guy who has a justified pragmatic point - but then pulls out due to "conscience" at the last moment.
The most decisive and intimidating among the bad motherfuckers in orange suits, turns out to be an awesome guy with moral principles.

So... contrary to what the Joker said, "humanity" doesn't get at each other's throats when the chips are down!!
But... it could've very easily.


So then apparently all the patients are safely evacuated from the hospital, that's nice.

The dialogue betwen Two-Face and Oldman at the end seems way too contrived and artificial - Dent basically just wants to kill people, has gone completely unreasonable, and avoids arguments in a defensive manner.
Oldman: "Just leave my son in peace!"
Dent: "Oh, I will. If the coin turns out right."

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*


I think that's it really, it did nicely by taking several philosophical (or maybe political) issues and compounding them in one plot line, but most of the time, it either beat your over the head with the obvious simplicity of its dialogue, or failed to hit the head by taking a way too convenient approach.
Sometimes it's good when an issue is just raised, and played out in a scenario - it gives certain arguments or imagined scenarios a shape, it becomes easy to reference it and immediately explain what you mean by something, and that's cool.
But that has less to do with the actual movie quality.

WHY DIDN'T THE JOKER'S GOONS HAVE FIREARMS???! WHERE DID BATMAN COME FROM?!

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captainsolo said:


And I think Kilmer is possibly the best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne.


Agree 100%. The only problem I had with Kilmer was that his hair wasn't dark enough.

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*cut & paste*

RE: The Keaton - I think he is the best movie Batman but the worst Bruce Wayne. He is just too damn short! The curly hair doesn't help matters either. Batman Begins is my favourite of the movies despite Bale's woeful Clint Eastwood impersonation. TAS Bats is the real Batman for me.

This "Which Batman film is your favorite?" thread is my favourite "Which Batman film is your favorite?" thread.

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doubleKO said:

This "Which Batman film is your favorite?" thread is my favourite "Which Batman film is your favorite?" thread.

I highly disagree. The other "Which Batman film is your favorite?" thread is by far the better of all "Which Batman film is your favorite?" threads.

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The other... there are three of them! Maybe this should be a category in the OT.com awards. "Best 'Which Batman film is your favorite?' thread".

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doubleKO said:

The other... there are three of them! Maybe this should be a category in the OT.com awards. "Best 'Which Batman film is your favorite?' thread".

It's the other one!!!

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This thread is okay, and the other one isn't bad, but the other other one is the one that I keep refreshing hoping it will continue.

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I suppose Batman Begins is my favorite.  However, it has a couple of areas that keep it back from being my definitive Batman.  Suit - I'm not crazy about it.  For me, it's a little too crisp.  The armor looks too much like armor.  I prefer the Keaton suit.  Bale - Not deep enough.  He just comes across as a wealthy guy with a chip on his shoulder, not someone who is emotionally scarred.

As much as I dislike Burton (which is a lot), I think he got two things correct in 1989 - the the two things I mentioned above. The suit looks more like Batman to me and I think Keaton is much better in the role.

Batman & Batman Begins are the only two I own and I watch both with some regularity, depending on my mood.

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You know how Bale could have improved his performance?  Batman has to be a little crazy, right?  If Bale had played him as Patrick Bateman I think I would have enjoyed it more.

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captainsolo said:

The Dark Knight-took all of the elements from the first film I didn't like and did away with any of the one I did. I kept waiting for this film to go somewhere, but it didn't. And this lack of nearly anything somehow gives it the pretense of "importance"? ....Bad story construction, some editing and sound mixing mistakes, and they didn't know how or where to end the darn thing. IMO a mess.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on The Dark Knight also.  Man, by the time they got to that way too long & pointless ferry sequence, I was literally looking at the clock. With God as my witness, I nearly didn't finish watching it.  I'd lost interest.

I'll also go on record as the lone dissenter where Ledger is concerned.  Too much - of everything. Know when to pull back and give the character room to breath. Some of it was scene chewing and I wore out on it.  The juggernaut of pre-release "this is the greatest performance in the history of film" hype certainly didn't help.  Fans were ordaining it masterpiece and classic before they'd even seen the fucking thing.

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TV's Frink said:

This thread is okay, and the other one isn't bad, but the other other one is the one that I keep refreshing hoping it will continue.

This is the original "Which Batman film is your favorite?" thread. The others are inferior genetic copies and an abomination before God.

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Anchorhead said:

I'll also go on record as the lone dissenter where Ledger is concerned.  Too much - of everything. Know when to pull back and give the character room to breath. Some of it was scene chewing and I wore out on it.  The juggernaut of pre-release "this is the greatest performance in the history of film" hype certainly didn't help.  Fans were ordaining it masterpiece and classic before they'd even seen the fucking thing.

When you say "lone dissenter," you of course mean "lone dissenter other than TV's Frink, who expressed his dissent earlier in the thread."

;-)

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TV's Frink said:

When you say "lone dissenter," you of course mean "lone dissenter other than TV's Frink, who expressed his dissent earlier in the thread."

;-)

;-)  Sorry.  I gotta get out more. 

And I agree with you.  His death seemed to somehow elevate a lot of  pre-viewing opinions, which I find particularly weird.  Truthfully, the whole pre-release hype of viral sites, cos-play gatherings, etc seemed to have almost brain washed people into thinking the film was a masterpiece before they ever actually saw it.

There is a huge Batman-Nolanverse nerd here at work and the months leading up to Dark Knight release were very weird to witness first hand.  My co-worker, other forums, blogs et al - it had a weird Emperor's New Clothes feel to it.

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Oh, sure, Ledger was chewing the scenery, every single second. It's the way he did it, and (imo) made it believable (the character is a freak who enjoys quirky theatralics just for the sake of it, even when no one's watching), that people love.

Having that said, I did find all the "best villain evah" exclamations pretty fucking ridiculous, because there are also villains in more serious films that don't chew scenery by virtue of being based on flashy, hammy comicbook characters, and being one who constantly wears a mask and hides behind his quirky mannerisms, is one inherent disadvantage that simply can't be overlooked.

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twooffour said:

I am a freak who enjoys quirky theatralics just for the sake of it

 

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It's a rather cute spectacle when someone who's apparently around his 50s or 60s (certainly a grown man) behaves like an immature kid from the schoolyard not for the lulz, but because he can't do any better (and doesn't even realize it).


Just on the other thread, you were complaining about me "derailing" that thread, even though RedFive and you started derailing it in the occasion.

Now, minutes later, here you are, derailing THIS thread with your childish personal bullshit - like you did so many times before, and I maybe once or twice (if at all).
"Oh, he said something, I should tease him".

Should I blame your alledged "disorders" for this bullshit, or are you just being incredibly thick?

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ray_afraid said:

Batman Forever is my favorite Batman film. And I hate it.

But, it has the song Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me by U2 on the soundtrack and I really like that song. And that's one more thing than I like about any of the other Batmans.

I have to admit I've never heard this reasoning before.

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twooffour said:

Just on the other thread, you were complaining about me "derailing" that thread, even though RedFive and you started derailing it in the occasion.

...


Should I blame your self-claimed "disorders" for this bullshit, or are you just being incredibly thick?

You are such a fucking hypocritical idiot.  Learn to read.

1) Read the other thread again.  Where did I complain about you derailing the thread?  Quote me.

2) Where did I claim I have disorders that are the cause of my behavior?  Again, quote me.