logo Sign In

Revenge Of The Cut - Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith (* unfinished project *) — Page 19

Author
Time

The Cutter said:

rpvee said:

2. The theme will no longer come out of nowhere during the final duel.

3. We'd be so used to hearing it so friendly and "good", that hearing it so apocalyptic with a choir while these brothers duel to the death would be extra heart-breaking.

 it's a good idea, but for now, I am not sure if I will let Battle of the heroes in my cut...as I already said, I like it, brillant work, but not enough Star Wars IMO

It's not as Star Wars as a piece from Superman?  Seriously?  I'm trying to like your edit and I really am interested in the new music, but things like using Superman music in Star Wars, and introducing an important theme for the first time ever with a variation just are not wise choices.

If Battle is not "Star Wars-y" enough, then you could make it Star Wars enough.  But putting Superman in Star Wars is just, as someone else said, lazy.

Author
Time

I cant call it lazy, in fact it needs some serious job to compose a piece that fits perfectly to a certain runtime of a shot and express all the feelings and emotions of the characters and the mood just like OT does.

I find the PT score very bland and ambient and it cant even capture the feel of the true symphonic style of the OT. Taking reference of the good williams scores and have Thecutter make new ones from inspiration of them is the perfect balance of tone up star wars by adding touches of JW top works.

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

Author
Time
 (Edited)

You cant listen the score of PT (apart TMP maybe but is not the same) as a stand alone piece. I still have ANH and ESB scores as the best so far because they hardly repeat them selfs in the contex.

In PT the orchestration changes the style changes the melody is nowhere etc etc...

Now im not saying/thought that the PT score if it was orchestrated with the 70s way might sound better or worse but in my experience the scores are pretty much dead with the way they use to be. TheKcutter knows that better from us.

Thats because the best parts were not used/are unreleased!

like the Emporer Motif in I Am The Senate, and Across the Stars right after the death of Mace.

Sorry i cant see them as good music.

Its other making music for a shot/film and other for filling the gaps with an ambient background music.

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

Author
Time

Angel said:

I cant call it lazy, in fact it needs some serious job to compose a piece that fits perfectly to a certain runtime of a shot and express all the feelings and emotions of the characters and the mood just like OT does.

I find the PT score very bland and ambient and it cant even capture the feel of the true symphonic style of the OT. Taking reference of the good williams scores and have Thecutter make new ones from inspiration of them is the perfect balance of tone up star wars by adding touches of JW top works.

 

-Angel

Yeah I agree, calling it lazy is rather tough, since Cutter has been composing. Even if the score is very similar to Superman's, you have to write each line of music the same; it's not a copy/paste job but something more like the process of copying the medieval priests did in the abbeys; reading the music and writing it again. And all of this, considering it's an exact copy, which clearly isn't.

However, you can always agree or disagree with his musical view; in fact, I disagree at this point, I'd look for another orchestration (more winds instead of so many strings), or I'd even look for another melody, trying to change the mood of Anakin's Dark Deeds (the melody you hear in that theme from the 0:44) into something friendly and otish, and use it.

Author
Time

Angel said:

You cant listen the score of PT (apart TMP maybe but is not the same) as a stand alone piece. I still have ANH and ESB scores as the best so far because they hardly repeat them selfs in the contex.

In PT the orchestration changes the style changes the melody is nowhere etc etc...

Now im not saying/thought that the PT score if it was orchestrated with the 70s way might sound better or worse but in my experience the scores are pretty much dead with the way they use to be. TheKcutter knows that better from us.

Thats because the best parts were not used/are unreleased!

like the Emporer Motif in I Am The Senate, and Across the Stars right after the death of Mace.

Sorry i cant see them as good music.

Its other making music for a shot/film and other for filling the gaps with an ambient background music.

 

-Angel

The Prequel scores are Cut and Paste jobs anyways, half of the music in AOTC and ROTS is from TPM.

and not even the best tracks from TPM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WyVs_L8z8E

but it does not matter, its Cutter's edit, not mine.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Those two are no comparison.

that is too "inappropriate and cloying to be used as some kind of Anakin & Obi Wan friendship theme" you might as well use this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

that piece I posted above could prove malleable enough to be a motif for A&O.

and JW has still got it, The Jungle Chase, and the War Horse trailer proves it.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Those two are no comparison.

that is too inappropriate and cloying to be used as some kind of Anakin & Obi Wan friendship theme.

Never said that it was for the friendship theme or style

I thought we were talking about the PT and OT music :P

The piece you posted IMO is too soft to express anything. too flat whatever.

So good that JW still got it so The Kcutter can take inspiration from the war horse then

Anyways i will still stay to my point that PT needs more Yoko kanno style music unless TheKcutter impress us all (he will) with the new music he will create.


-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Which style of williams are we talking about anyway?

60's comedy williams?

70's disaster and adventure film williams?

80's Action and Adventure Williams?

90's Creature and Political Figure biography films williams?

or 2000's Drama williams?


and about your mention of ET, most of the score is "Ambient background music" like you said, with only "Escape - Chase - Goodbye" (and the end credits) being the only real memorable music.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

Author
Time

Ok, chiming in a bit late. Love the new Anakin/Obi-Wan theme. I hear the superman music by inspiration only, not the exact theme. I think it really is great. However, I would love to see how it fits into an actual scene. But musically, I have no issues with it. Great work!

Author
Time

rpvee said:

It's not as Star Wars as a piece from Superman?

 No, because Superman soundtrack is much closer to OT style than all PT soundtracks combined. And it's not a matter of taste, or point of view, it's a technical fact : PT has a different writing style than all 70s/80s Willams work which is much more inspired by this kind of music :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaNuYvj-jcc

the 70s/80s are a kind of "blessed time" : best soundtracks ever, best movies ever...great inspiration

I'm sure that if Williams had to compose a friendship theme in the 80s, it would have been close to "Leaving home" or close to this one :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTUgPLoOOak

When a composer create music for different movies in the same period, we can feel it, we can feel the same kind of inspiration, writing style -and this is the case with Star wars and Superman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9INHPNnEEWo

Even if it contain masterpieces, 80 % of the PT soundtrack has nothing to do with Star Wars, and we can't blame Williams : he created music for movies that have nothing to do with Star Wars.

I have chosen "Leaving home" as main inspiration because, for me, it's the perfect tone to illustrate the friendship...each time I listen to this track, I am thinking about Obi-wan and Anakin's friendship...so I decided to create something close, and as I already said, it's not the same theme : because the orchestration and progression are the same (and I have explained why), it give the feeling of a copy/paste...In AOTC and ROTS, this theme will be orchestrated in many different ways.

Author
Time

I agree completely on every single point. I still would like to hear that new theme with footage. If you can. Just curious how it all blends. Thanks again for all your incredible work.

Author
Time

I think it sounds good and works really well when put to footage - I got a greater sense of feeling from the Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship with that score attached

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Yes I understand perfectly why you don't like it, and I never said  it was not obvious that this music is really close to Superman soundtrack (youtube description : "Mainly and heavily inspired by Superman soundtrack).

but Star wars is full of romantic themes : Leia, Luke, Luke and Leia, Han solo and the Princess, Yoda, Brother and sister, Anakin, Accros the Stars, Anakin's betrayal

I can't imagine another way (a romantic theme) to illustrate a friendship.

You can't agree with all of my choices, no one can I think.

I agree with you concerning my birth sequence, it's a liitle too much, and I will work on it again.
But concerning this one, I don't care if a music is close to another (and in this case, it's from the same composer) now, when I watch this sequence, I feel something.

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I&t=1m20s

" Hey John !!, you are not serious !! you will not put Holts music in star wars, it's too obvious !!"

^_^

Author
Time

Why should a friendship theme between two brothers and war heroes be remotely romantic?  I still stress you at least try the Battle of the Heroes option, but it seems when you have an idea, you're stuck with it.

I did not have a problem with the birthing sequence.  I was referring to Leia's theme earlier, with that scene on Alderaan.  The version you made with the traditional theme was much better.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

rpvee said:

I did not have a problem with the birthing sequence.  

 "Heyyy cutter. My previous critiques on your ROTS edit aside, this is well done! I don't think it fits the tone of the scene, but focusing on the piece itself, I think it's brilliant"

 

this is your words, right ?

I agree with you here, it doesn't fit perfectly the tone of the scene. I have to work on it again.

It's strange that you think I am stuck on my vision.

I take the time to read, respond, sometimes I agree with critics and  I made some corrections, sometime I suggest different visions.

Not long ago, I wrote this :

"the new soundtrack I am working on is still work in progress, things may change, I need time to think and make the necessary improvements. This is not an easy challenge to try to "get into" Williams head and created a music that is not offensive to him."


I mean here that things need to mature... I do not think this is the behavior of someone frozen.

Having a personnal vision of things does not mean be stuck.

Concerning the frienship theme, for me it need to be romantic. It doesn't need to be epic, because we are talking here about feeling, about heart, about love and respect between two brothers and between a master and an apprentice.

There is other places in the movie for epic stuff.

Revenge of the sith lacks so much of emotions, frienship emotions...we have stupid jokes, stupid disagreements, but never a true feeling of frienship...frienship is about love, and I don't know another way to illustrate love than with a romantic music.