The ANH:SE Redux Ideas thread (Radical Ideas Welcome). — Page 50

Sounds like the perfect place to put it in...hopefully it would be of good enough quality on the BD set.

J

Harmy said:

... it gives you a much needed idea about why the Empire is so bad and it has a great pay-off in the Yavin battle, when Biggs dies.

"The empire already starting natiolalizing commerce in the central systems"... The Empire's bad because it's socialist?? Really?

Mithrandir said:

Harmy said:

... it gives you a much needed idea about why the Empire is so bad and it has a great pay-off in the Yavin battle, when Biggs dies.

 

"The empire already starting natiolalizing commerce in the central systems"... The Empire's bad because it's socialist?? Really?

The Nazis did their fair share of nationalizing too (not all nationalizing governments are cheery jolly places with good healthcare and a decent education system).

Loving Ray's edit idea too.

Exactly, which is why I'm saying, Empire's bad because of authoritarism, not because of nationalizing. Anyway, in spite of how in favour or against common property we may be, I think the more you establish about the Empire, the more you PTize the original trilogy plot.

OT is a fairytale because the plot is simple. The Empire is evil because it's evil.

Remember the feeling of ObiWan screaming "my allegiance is to the republic, to democracy"?? Well, I think it'd be a rough call to bring that same feeling to the OT.

I think it makes Star Wars stronger.

Nationalisation on such a microscopic scale in a Galactic Empire isn't in itself a sign of the evil of the regime but rather an indicator of it's reach.

You can be running a tiny farm on a dust ball on the outskirts of nowhere and still be under the thumb of the autocracy.

It's why Tarkin is much more sinister than Palpatine (in either trilogy) he is so much more palpable.

ray_afraid that is an awesome idea.

I've also been thinking about where to put that scene (cuz it's the best of the deleted Biggs stuff) but all I could think of was after the dinner as well just as a separate scene.

But to blend the scene and perhaps change up the background...now that is genius and innovative.

I'd love to see a rough cut of that idea if any of you guys could manage it. Unfortunately I can't even keep photoshop open anymore w/o crashing my computer.

ray_afraid said:

And dontcha wish Tarkin could have appeared in all three films? He's my favorite Star Wars baddie by a mile.

 If only... ;-)

Mithrandir said:

Harmy said:

... it gives you a much needed idea about why the Empire is so bad and it has a great pay-off in the Yavin battle, when Biggs dies.

 

"The empire already starting natiolalizing commerce in the central systems"... The Empire's bad because it's socialist?? Really?

Without making this discussion overly political, I for one am largely against socialism.  I understand that government control over some aspects of the industry is important, but socialism is inherently autocratic and defeats democracy, as the government determines the market rather than the populace.  But regardless of your political/economic preferences, nationalizing commerce means taking over private businesses.  This clearly infringes on the rights of business owners.  How would you like it if you sold lemonade on the corner, with your legitimate business license of course, and the government comes along, confiscates your license, and says that the lemonade market is now under its control?  Seems wrong to me.

Angel said:

The millennium falcon enters way to boring into the hangar. a well placed angle is more interesting.

While I was looking at this, why are the Falcon's engines still fired up when it is being pulled into the Death Star, Han does say "I'm on full power kid, I'm gonna have to shut down"

Maybe during the top shot I could power her down.

J

darth_ender said:

Mithrandir said:

Harmy said:

... it gives you a much needed idea about why the Empire is so bad and it has a great pay-off in the Yavin battle, when Biggs dies.

 

"The empire already starting natiolalizing commerce in the central systems"... The Empire's bad because it's socialist?? Really?

Without making this discussion overly political........

With all due respect, there is a Politics thread in the Off Topic section if you want to talk about politics in the real world (well American Politics on the whole but you could always start another thread if that one doesn't tick your boxes).

We have no idea if the Empire strictly followed any political model known on Earth.

We know it is an Autocracy and shared some aspects with the Roman Empire, The British Empire and the Third Reich but that's about it.

If you are proposing that the dialogue be changed so that the Imperials inject pro-Socialist sentiment in between their normal lines and the Rebels make anti-Socialist comments inbetween  shooting stormtroopers etc. Then that would be different.

That would be a Redux idea and radical ideas are welcome. 

__________

As for powering the engines down I'm all for it.

It currently looks like Solo is going to ram the hanger bay (which is what would have happened if Bill Shatner was flying the Falcon).

Bingowings said:

darth_ender said:

Mithrandir said:

Harmy said:

... it gives you a much needed idea about why the Empire is so bad and it has a great pay-off in the Yavin battle, when Biggs dies.

 

"The empire already starting natiolalizing commerce in the central systems"... The Empire's bad because it's socialist?? Really?

Without making this discussion overly political........

With all due respect, there is a Politics thread in the Off Topic section if you want to talk about politics in the real world (well American Politics on the whole but you could always start another thread if that one doesn't tick your boxes).

We have no idea if the Empire strictly followed any political model known on Earth.

We know it is an Autocracy and shared some aspects with the Roman Empire, The British Empire and the Third Reich but that's about it.

If you are proposing that the dialogue be changed so that the Imperials inject pro-Socialist sentiment in between their normal lines and the Rebels make anti-Socialist comments inbetween  shooting stormtroopers etc. Then that would be different.

That would be a Redux idea and radical ideas are welcome. 

__________

As for powering the engines down I'm all for it.

It currently looks like Solo is going to ram the hanger bay (which is what would have happened if Bill Shatner was flying the Falcon).

 I understand, appreciate the respect you always show, tuck my tail between my legs, and provide a sheepish explanation that I simply was trying to show why Biggs felt the nationalization of commerce indicated the Empire was evil.  *Hangs head in shame*

You have a tail?

Cool.

Ender, socialism claims itself as the "true" form of democracy. It's just another interpretation of the word "democracy", you can share it or not. It's aplication in the real world, has commonly derived in autocratic governments, ergo the socialist system has flaws, as well as capitalism has its own flaws (poverty, exclusion, etc.).

But you can always remain with the theory, and its allegiance to democracy (a very particular sense of democracy).  The nazis, on the other hand, defined theirselves as an anti-democratic movement... Which is why they are more easily accepted as the bad guys anywhere in the world you can be.

So summing up, OT feels universal because the bad guys are universally evil. Not politically evil. The Empire is against life itself, not against free market, and that's why you, and a cuban could feel the same way towards SW.

I just find it hard to express these kind of things in a foreign language, and just wanna point out that the aim of this post wasn't to keep on with the off-topic but to (intend to) make a point about the universality of a story, and the risk of destroying it.

PS: I just found out you could (considering my english isn't pretty good) read this better in JRR Tolkien's "On fairy tales" and "Letters". (when he speaks of allegories).

The Empire is clearly a political entity.

It disbands senates and places power into the slippery fingers of regional Governors.

It only becomes a dark wizard's domain almost two thirds into the second movie.

What I said, the general notion we got of the empire as a political entity is that it's against democracy.

You can't state it's an ultra leftist autocratic state like the USSR, or a right-wing dictatorship like the nazis with the material we currently have.

But, whatever, it's a radical idea so far so I guess why not? (Although I still think it wouldn't work).

-----------------------------------------------------

About Jaitea's comment on the engines I agree with Bingo, the Falcon isn't willingly going to the Death Star, and that should be reflected on the footage.

Mithrandir said:

Ender, socialism claims itself as the "true" form of democracy. It's just another interpretation of the word "democracy", you can share it or not. It's aplication in the real world, has commonly derived in autocratic governments, ergo the socialist system has flaws, as well as capitalism has its own flaws (poverty, exclusion, etc.).

But you can always remain with the theory, and its allegiance to democracy (a very particular sense of democracy).  The nazis, on the other hand, defined theirselves as an anti-democratic movement... Which is why they are more easily accepted as the bad guys anywhere in the world you can be.

So summing up, OT feels universal because the bad guys are universally evil. Not politically evil. The Empire is against life itself, not against free market, and that's why you, and a cuban could feel the same way towards SW.

I just find it hard to express these kind of things in a foreign language, and just wanna point out that the aim of this post wasn't to keep on with the off-topic but to (intend to) make a point about the universality of a story, and the risk of destroying it.

 

PS: I just found out you could (considering my english isn't pretty good) read this better in JRR Tolkien's "On fairy tales" and "Letters". (when he speaks of allegories).

 You explained yourself quite clearly and make an excellent point.  I'm reading The Secret History of Star Wars right now, and only now realize that Lucas's inspiration is much related to the North Vientnamese vs. the U.S.  I disagree with George on probably 97.3 % of his politics, yet he tells a universal story that I can greatly appreciate.  Again, excellent point.

Yes, I have a tail, and scales too.

The clip where Ben says "Mos Eisley spaceport....." you can see that Artoo is an empty can cause he's blowing about in the wind,especially by the end of the shot.....Artoo looks terrified.....Harmy's clip is the best quality for you to see....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSt_xEpK7mo

J

One possibly easier fix for that is to go with the footage.

Artoo is nervous about being captured and the plans being destroyed so give him his nervous noise and see how that works with the scene.

The other obvious fix is to stabilse him.

Yeah, I was thinking of keeping it as though he was nervous, but the more I see the clip, the more it cheapens the scene....it gives it away that he was just set there, with no Kenny to weigh him down.

I've been reading through this thread and I noticed all Darth Venal's mock-up images have gone, I remember they were very good, does anyone have them saved?....especially Ben's hut.....I've been noting a lot of the suggestions.

J

It's a pain that he got himself banned and his images vanished.

Lot's of your own images Angel have dropped off the boards but I appreciate that it would be difficult to go through every post and re-instate every one of them.

I particularly miss SSWR1's videos which were a treasure chest of ideas, if I had the means back then and knew what was going to happen I would have copied them (though obviously I wouldn't have put them back up without his permission).

I hope he is doing OK and hope he returns here some day.

And I hope postees like Bob Garcia continue to post here and don't just migrate to other locations.