SW Episode III - Reign of the Dark Side (* unfinished project *) — Page 48

The main difference I have always noticed between ROTS and AOTC, which may also explain the odd look to Palpatine, is the colour differences in each film. AOTC is very saturated and colourful, whereas ROTS is a mixture of muted, colourful and sort of neutral looking colours. I think a colour correction with that scene with Palpatine in AOTC to ROTS level might make a difference as well to his appearance.

You're completely right rockin. I agree with ROTS being a mixture, while AOTC is so saturated. A good color correction might make Palpatine look better.

I had this idea in mind, which I think that could tie a little bit some things. Of course, it wouldn't preserve the WTF moment of ESB. But still, I find it (and hope you too) very interesting. Of corse I don't pretend that just by putting in excercise this only idea all the problems of the PT would be solved, but let's see.

"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" - "Annie was a good friend"

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the theatrical release, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT. Something ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Till here's the general EPI-EPII editing.
Let's sink into ROTS. By this point ObiWan should know about Anakin and Padme, so sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. On the other hand they are like the best generals from the Order, perhaps except Yoda. So Skywalker-Kenobi are kinda the star boys who have a very particular pov of the Jedi rules.
By the time we reach order sixty six,we just get rid of Yoda, I mean, we see he chop's the clone commander head's off and that's it (so that we make room for this brand new WTF moment in ESB replacing the other one. This could make a good cliffhanger.. "what? Yoda? still alive?") And have Obi leave Utapau in hurry. Bob managed to get rid of Bail's hologram. having just the radio signal gives us the chance to replace the message and leave it into another place:

C:"this is bail organa's ship" (bail is a senator, he doesn't have time to be communicating with lost Jedi through the galaxy, so have obiwan speak with his captain instead feels more logical to me)..."it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion. The jedi are being hunted"
OBI WAN: ANAKIN!! (worried). so he goes straight to Coruscant and Padme's, worried by his friend being in danger. By the time he reaches Mustafar and sees what Anakin does to his pregnant wife, we have enough critical mass so as to have them fight.

Pretty doable, I think, compared with other stuff Bob already achieved. The main disadvantage I find on doing it this way is that we just don't have the Obiwan-Yoda chat about Qui gonn.

On another field... ROTS not being oversaturated? Have you taken a look at Felucia, Utapau, Mustafar even? I agree that this episode has more studio-scenes, which is excelent, for we're getting closer to what ANH is (it gets even claustrophobic at time). The more I re-watch it, the more I realize that TPM is, at some points of the movie, the more balanced point of PT technology and OT influence. It feels starwarsy, like some kind of an enhanced, almost 21st century OT.

The yoda stuff was more a compensation I had in mind for spoiling the great ESB reveal. I already enjoy the saga as it is now, don't mind the surprise being lost, I find it more a deep saga now; however since some people don't think the same there was this well, you know who Vader is, but here we invent another hole in the saga kinda to replace the old one.

Considering we're speaking hipothetically, Bail could rather be a stand-alone character; actually having Bail return to Coruscant could work only as a way to show the tantive (I'm saying, why would you have him leave and then come back, just make it appear arriving, he's never left since this is the first time he arrives).

 Even if you want to keep showing the history of Yoda, you could keep the Tantive's cockpit scenes and in any way, still you could make room for the idea of Obi Wan going to Mustafar because he's worried about Anakin... the only thing you'd loose would be Yoda and Obi going back to the Jedi place, and watching Anakin's massacre, makin Obi wan go straight to Padme's and erasing some references to the "secret to obi" relationship between them throughout the movie.

Infact I had the idea of havin a suited Vader do the slaughter, that's why getting rid of the scene of Yoda and Obi finding out it has been Anakin who killed the younglingst wasn't a problem in my mind and I didn't even consider it since for me it had to be cut, though I see now you're not aiming at that goal (havin the actual Darth Vader go kill the Jedi near the end of the movie). There's a guy who made a great mock up, I think that if you want to, you could polish it with a better roto and make it work, though considering I don't master AE, perhaps I'm not being grounded about the amount of work rotoscoping means; In that case, I offer you an apology.

 Anyway bob, you've got my full support with this edit, I know you're doing great things there and I fully respect your calls since you're making your best to get a better movie out of ROTS

Just throwing a nugget in the works.

What if the duel was AFTER yoda, bail and obiwan have the meeting where they decide to go into hiding? Yoda knows through the force that they are the last of the jedi, and all is agreed, but obiwan must find out what happened to anakin. Yoda warns him not to go, and that 'the boy he trained is gone'. Obi wan goes anyway and everything carries on as usual.

Major issue would be the birth of the twins. If there was anyway of having them born before, or possibly born without yoda being there. Potentially lots of back-an-forth.

Obi's clothes are pretty messed up after the duel.

That would cause continuity problemos.

hmmm, if only there were an obsessive collective of people who spend their spare time correcting these problemos....

there is a stack of potential issues, but as i said its just an idea. i just like the idea that obiwan goes out with the best of intentions to save anakin, but ends up practically killing him enstead.

ben_danger said:

hmmm, if only there were an obsessive collective of people who spend their spare time correcting these problemos....

there is a stack of potential issues, but as i said its just an idea. i just like the idea that obiwan goes out with the best of intentions to save anakin, but ends up practically killing him enstead.

 I thought the idea of having them arrange the twins-thing before the duel too, though the clothes are a problem. Anyway, it still makes sense, since if you put it the way we're suggesting, Anakin's "death" (in case you try to keep Vader's identity unknown) would be something that wasn't foreseen, so they'd have to decide everything quickly, which is actually the way it seems to be in the movie.  Still, You could have ObiWan go to "rescue" Anakin from the order 66 as a whole separated thing of "keeping Yoda's destiny" a secret...you wouldn't loose Qui Gonn's scene.

Obi runs from Utapau. Message from the Tantive. Gets to the ship. They arrive to Coruscant. Obi goes to Padme's. Padme goes to Mustafar. Duel. Birth scene. Twin arrangement.

That way you'd make Anakin and ObiWan more worried about each other, and you don't loose Yoda's micro-storyline. The only scene that should be gone is that of ObiWan and Yoda in Coruscant sending the emergency code(that way you're giving the history a soft twist). And if you want to make it even deeper, as I said, make it seem as Anakin and Padme had told ObiWan about them being a couple. So Kenobi is this friend that could be silent and support his best friend against the Jedi's rules. Making one best friend keep the other's secret would help you a lot (really, a lot) in order to make the story fit Obiwan's lines in ANH.

Besides, if you try this,  plus the other stuff of having Anakin go straight to Padme's right after Palps reveal, it'd be just excelent how Padme's character would grow even reaching the level of importance of Leia in ESB (more or less) and not leaving her be just some stand-aside, plain character in the movie.

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The main challenge to make it all work would be to insert at some point of the sequence, some dialogue that proves ObiWan's preoccupation about Anakin. Considering Bob's abbilities in editing, I don't think that'd be a major challenge.

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On another aspect, don't know what you plan to do on Padme's death Bob, but it might be better if the only one who suspects that "there's still good" in Vader was Luke. Padme's hard broken and dissapointed.

I try to keep making some plot-suggestions, though at times I feel too invasive with my comments, it's just that I have so much confidence in this edit as the ultimate ROTS fan edit. BTW, long time no see the visuals guy, Vaderios where're you?

A couple of points I want to bring up. So much so that I actually signed in for once:

As far as the "retro-izing" the prequels, I would like to present my point of view, that I'm always arguing with my idiot brother(not to call anyone here an idiot), who doesn't like how the prequels look more modern than the original trilogy - I always tell him that that disparity shows the effect of the Empire on a previously peaceful, prosperous republic.  During the peaceful good times, technology and materialism could flourish.  People could afford nice things, and technology could advance without being war-related.  With the imposition of the Empire, people galaxy-wide had to do with less, technology stagnated, and society went backwards in many ways.  This can be seen in many societies throughout history on Earth, and even today.  So I want the prequels to look more modern and technologically adanced than the originals.  They have to.

And for the people who keep wanting to see suited Vader in the temple - by the time Vader is in the suit, why would anyone, let alone younglings, still be at the temple?  The jedi have been all but exterminated, but the kids are left unprotected a couple of blocks from the Emperor's place?  How could you possibly twist the story to have this make sense?  Never mind the fact that it's so important that the temple slaughter be Vader's first act after turning, it just doesn't make sense on so many levels to push the slaughter to later.

Vader didn't get sent to kill younglings because he's just some killing machine on a rampage, and he didn't kill them because they're some huge threat necessitating the chosen one's attention when order 66 has just been given.  The whole point is to force Anakin/Vader to do something from which there is absolutely no turning back whatsoever.  The killing of Windu could be covered up, but the slaughter of younglings could not be.  By sending Vader to do this, Palps knows he has Vader by the short hairs forever.  It HAS TO be this way.  Just think of how many times throughout the series that people have sensed some good still in Vader.  Well Palpatine's more powerful than any of them, so he can sense it more than anyone.  So he had to give Vader a point of no return - the killing of the younglings.

^ I entirely agree. If there are younglings present, they must be slaughtered. It is to account for the fate of these characters, as well as to seal the new underling's loyalty in blood with the slaughter of innocents ( Tyrants and organized criminals have been using that heinous tactic throughout history.)

    Various fan-editors are side-stepping such difficulties through outrageous acts of revisionism (I continue to wonder at the tolerance of LFL and The MPAA.)

   I would keep the sequence of the boy on the landing platform. Perhaps the Jedi order begin their apprenticeships at the age of 11 or 12?

   I've read some histories of WWII. I recall reports by SS officers after the war stating that Himmler broke down in hysterics when he witnessed with his own eyes the mass killing of civilians. My rule of thumb is that if it's too much for Himmler, it's too much for a fallen hero in a SW movie.

Well, attacking your pregnant wife, almost killing her, and getting severed by your best friend, plus being under constant pressure makes a point of no return. More personal and character-centered (Obi, Padme and Anakin).

Most of us state here that prequels suck specially because of the treatment some parts of the plot have received. If you wanna change it at some point (to make it better, of course), you'd still have to change a lot of things in the movie.

I don't think Bob's going to have a suited Vader do the slaughter, so you can sleep quiet, though it isn't a bad idea at all.

The way it is, it's Anakin's point of no return.

The way it'd be after that change, it's Vader's furthest point in bitchiness, and his "great" entrance to the saga as the new ultimate vilain.

bobgarcia74 said:

First attempt, and this will not be in the final cut. Maybe as a bonus clip tho just for fun

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUqIh6Qoc68

Why? Why not?! This is awesome!

A quality mind-fudge!

Nice job. Not sure if I would keep it in..... But impressive. I always thought that the prequel vader could have been closer to McQuarrie work... Just to give the suit variations over the years.

mrbenja0618 said:

Not sure if I would keep it in.....

Bob said above that it won't be in the final cut.

Oh yeah...well that's odd.

Love the Vader statues in Palpatine's office Bob! I suggested this in another thread too. Maybe you could keep the statues idea in your edit, only use more stylized Vader shapes over the more obvious ones you used. It might make the appearance of Vader's suit less random, and give it some context in Sith legacy.

Don't know if this is against the forum rules. But considering I'm trying to develop an idea by parts (not that everything came to my mind in the same moment); with every improvement or new idea I have that's related to previous ones, I'm gonna post the whole chain of them, just to let anyone who steps in the thread get the idea and not to make him/her go backwards to look for the previous-chained idea.

General Idea: GOING TO A MORE OTISH PLOT in ROTS. (Character centred). I assume that one of the main differences between PT and OT is how cosmopolitan feels the new trilogy when opposed to the OT. So even if some character and situations are necessary, my goal here is to find a way to make the story of ROTS be driven by the main characters. So as far as in the OT we had this "trilogy" or characters Luke-Han-Leia, I think that the most close we have to that in the PT is Anakin-ObiWan-Padmé.

I had this idea in mind, which I think that could tie a little bit some things. Of course, it wouldn't preserve the WTF moment of ESB. But still, I find it (and hope you too) very interesting. Of corse I don't pretend that just by putting in excercise this only idea all the problems of the PT would be solved, but let's see.

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"He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" - "Annie was a good friend"

Well, immaginin' an all-PT-episodes fanedit saga, make it as if Obi Wan was not that impollute Jedi we see in the theatrical release, but someone more in line with the great guy, but yet tricky person we see in the OT, ala Qui Gonn. Someone who we know has great intentions however's a little rogue; a Master who could tolerate Anakin being married. Infact sharing the secret is an implicit way of showing how bonded they are as best friends. This is a process of "Han-izing" ObiWan a little, which I don't have any idea about how could it be pulled out.

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Anakin and his wife:

As I said many times before, making Anakin go right to Padmé's after Palpatine confessing he's the Sith Lord would be a hon-ron. By this, you add depth to the marriage relationship, and uncertainty, and perhaps even manipulative intelligence to Anakin's character.

To do this and yet not affect the development of the plot, we've to state how would the Jedi realize about Palpatine's identity. I've suggested that as "the dark side clouds everything" it could even be clouding the Jedi's minds so that they don't act specifically as they should. They'd rather be a little jerks here and convey in a council season (the one that there's Windu and almost the rest are holograms, which is not at the council chamber) that the Chancellor will be removed when Grievous is dead. This scene may need a little edition/tweakering to get moving though I suppose it's not a big deal.

POSSIBLE EXPANSION OF THE IDEA:

Once more, the dark side clouds everything, so considering there's a deleted scene that shows almost the same content that "the hologram council scene"; that deleted scene could make it to an edit since it shows only ObiWan, Yoda and Windu, and it'd lead us to think "hey, these are three Jedi that are making decissions as if they were even upper than the council". (This would make some of Anakins suspicions and angers be reasonable, after all he's not that wrong about the Jedi being a little jerks).

PRO:

Showing this "high command" of the Jedi order, even above the rest of the council
Giving more reasons to Anakin (and through him, till this point of the movie, to the spectator) to be unsure about the Jedi.

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So ObiWan's sent to Utapau Fights grievous, and in the meanwhile Anakin turns.

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Obi Wan's scape and afterwards.

The way I've immagined this, the message that Kenobi gets from bail's ship should be replaced. SINCE HE AND ANAKIN ARE VERY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER the dialogue could be something like this.

Captain:"Captain Antilles here (fan service xd). This is Senator Organa's ship"
ObiWan: "Captain my clonetrooper fired at me...."
Captain:"...it seems that there's been a Jedi rebellion sir. The jedi are being hunted. We'll send you our cordenades"

(Comunication off)

OBI WAN (face gesture of "dammit"):  ANAKIN!! (worried about him being murdered as the rest of the Jedi). (THIS IS THE TRICKY PART)

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Cut to ANYWHERE

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ObiWan reaches the Tantive

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Cut to Anywhere again

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Tantive's Cockpit:
The message again should be replaced by something like:

"His majesty (HERE is when you insert a quick shot of Obi and Yoda putting their best oh-shit faces) has requested you for a special season of the senate. We'll open the perimeter for you".

(The WTF faces ar mainly due to "his majesty"... Palpatine hasn't even declared the Empire yet. This is just a way to "inform" Yoda and ObiWan what's really happening, without giving it in the mouth, so once again, you make the characters more clever.

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HERE YOU CHOP OFF THE SCENE OF YODA AND OBIWAN COMING BACK TO ESTABLISH AN EMERGENCY CODE

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Padme's home:

The way I have this scene in my mind, I must say is very very cutted, reduced to a few lines. However I immagined it with lines that already are in ROTS, so depending on the editor's skill to include extra-movie dialogue, its lenght could be different.

ObiWan:"it appears that the chancellor's behing everything, including the war. Palpatine's the Sith lord we've been looking for. Padme, I need your help, he's in grat danger"
Padme:"from the sith??"
ObiWan: (Silence).
Padme: Not Anakin (tense silence)
ObiWan: Padme, I must find him.

Perhaps increase the lenght by adding establishing shots of Padme's building.

 
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Straight to Mustafar.

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EXPANSION/VARIATION II TO THE IDEA.

Even if the "best friends" plot line is a radical change, it came to my mind the idea of another possibility that could enhance or replace what I formerly suggested. Well besides being worried for his best friend... perhaps ObiWan thinks that Anakin's time has come...

I mean, APART from the friendship preocupation, ObiWan wants to find Anakin because he is considered "the chosen one", "the only one who could destroy the sith".... so they need to find him the same way you need to find a baseball bat when someone's punching you (bad methaphore). They need him as a weapon. And when ObiWan goes to mustafar and sees what happen... well, everything crumbles down.

How to do this??

Right after the Tantive's cockpit scene, cut to the Tantive's corridor scene, and alter the dialogue till it looks like this (once again with dialogue from the original footage)

ObiWan: Have we received any message from the "temple" (here change "temple" and put ANAKIN)? There's too much at stake master. He must know.
Yoda: (Silence)
ObiWan: With all of your respect master, isn't he the chosen one? We need him
Y: a prophecy that coulda been misunderstood
O: He is my best friend, I know he won't fail me (or something)

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Pretty radical ideas though most of the footage to do it is already out there. I'm looking to feedback to polish this up even more, so I'd be glad if you comment on this.

Bob man, that made me laugh so hard.  Genius! haha