Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 285

The Golden Idol said:

I'm skeptical about this idea. I don't think the audience should know that Vader turns good at this point, I feel like switching their sabers would spoil the surprise of his redemption.

I think SW has reached a point with the inclussion of the PT to the saga( and I must say I'm thankful for this since it has humanly improved the story ) where a new feeling of vastness and humanity has been included. With the inclussion of the PT the saga has been re-dimensioned as the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, instead of some very well done adventures-matinée saga.

It is my point of view that it is pointless to keep some surprises just because we were astonished when we first saw them. And I say this, because, as a tragedy the aim of the saga should be to generate empaty, not astonishment.

This is where I mainly disagree with some fans that support editing PT to keep the surprise of Vader being Anakin till EPV.  Yes, of course we'd be freezed if after five movies it turns out that Anakin is Vader. But the price of this would be loosing all the process where the average viewer can put him/herself (or not) in Anakin's place, it'd be changing from drama to adventure. In a movie called the RETURN of the Jedi, where minutes before his return Vader says to his son (at Endor) "there's no time for me, son", where Luke tries and tries to convince hime saying there's still good in him... Is it actually a surprise that Vader's coming back to be Anakin?

That'd happen for someone who knows the chronological order. If you don'know anything about Star Wars, and don't have a buddy to tell you how to do, the most logical thing is to watch them in the order the movies seem to have, and actually, have

I think Lucas screwed up there really you should be able to watch the films in the order they were made and in chronological order and still keep the surprises.

I 100% agree with you, Bingowings.

The question is if it's fair to switch the Vader's redemption surprise for a more convincing uncertainty about what is Luke gonna do

And I'm worried about flashing in public places....

I know Ady said he is not going to do this for his edit, but someone else could for theirs.

Since I saw ROTS I thought it would be cool for Luke to have a similar vision as Anakin did.

Here is my first mock up of that.

ChainsawAsh said:

I 100% agree with you, Bingowings.

 (8E  38)   ;)

^ In the spirit of tossing everything out for passing consideration, I thought I'd make good on my promise.

   First, there was something left hanging.  I hope we all agree that the Luke-Leia lip-action we have now in ESB is... shall we say..."Adequate?";-\  I wrote "embrace" for a hug to emphasize the emotion in the moment.

   I wanted Lucas and Co. to SINGLE-MINDEDLY carry forward the character relationships in ANH. At EVERY opportunity and at the expense of EVERY non-vital element. I know that sort of thing bankrupted LUCASFILM in '77- but there it is.

   Actually, my thoughts were not originally intended for fan-editing. In the summer of '83, my teen-aged brain formulated: 1.7 billion box office- 65 million production cost= Inevitable trilogy remake. This filled me with a determination to identify and find corrections for every flaw in the trilogy that was not of a more technical (Fx, jump cuts, etc...) nature. Also, I tried to think of anything that might be an improvement (I wound up developing a very different treatment for ROTJ.) In 20 or 30 years, I would make certain the remake screen-writers received my notes. I lost my notes many moons ago.

   Now, I'm trying to pull those thoughts that might have application to fan-editing out of my rusty memory banks.

   Anyway, my last thought for a more conventional edit of ESB is also my first thought for ROTJ.

   It's forever and a day before we see any real action in ROTJ. What if, after the crawl, we see a fleeing Bothan spy ship being attacked by a SD? We could see a transmission dish turn and hear some SW transmission noises before the Bothans are destroyed. There could be Endor and the DS far in the background. Vader's SD might be there, also. (Cut to Luke building the sabre?) The crawl could be altered to note the Bothan struggle.

   For ESB, the crawl could state that the imperial fleet is hunting ships as well as launching probes. We could see a ship under attack by a SD. It is destroyed or jumps away. in the far background might be the SD that launches the probes. The sequence would be tied musically to the crawl and settle us down for the probe launch so it won't interfere with the second act/movement mood. It wouldn't be forever before the esb in ESB.

   Also, for TPM, the consular ship might come under mistaken attack by a droid ship (From AOTC or ROTS?) and cuts from approach and destruction might be altered to show response to the attack. This could create a sense of everything being obscure and uncertain. 

   For AOTC, The crawl could state that the separatists are trying to intercept senators. We could see the senator's ship drop out of hyperspace with a separatist ship dropping out immediately behind it. A ship loyal to the Republic might force the enemy ship to break-off the attack on the senator. The platform "Everything seems alright." lines could be cut. This would create a sense of siege and forshadow the ROTS opening.

   In this way, a star battle could become as much a part of the beginning of a SW episode as the logo and crawl.

   Waddya think? Have at it (All are welcome for a better edit ;) 

Just putting this link out their for those interested.

This site had tons and tons of pictures from everything star wars related. Very nicely done.

http://www.starwarsarchives.com/

Just re-watched ROTJ and I have to say that there are bunch stuff that I don't really like. I know we have discussed this before, but - Ewoks vs. Empire need some blood. Those little creatures are pwning StormTroopers left and right and it's just way too friendly.

(Just a mock-up. It doesn't need to be this over-the-top XD)

Also, the whole space action scene at the end -  I enjoyed it, but I don't get it. If The Empire is raping the whole damn GALAXY, then how come there's only dozens of rebellion fighters?

You would think that there would be hundreds of volunteers, throughout the galaxy, excited to kick some Empire ass, don't you think?

It needs to be more crowded. Maybe not like ROTS, but it would be great to have at least couple of more ships.

Oh and it's kind of funny how C3PO in ANH says he's not much a story teller, but in this movie... well,  it looks like ewoks are having an awesome time listening to him...

haha. that gif is awesome!

one thing this thread has taught me is that there were only two decent star wars films.

rotj feels so small. two locations, that's all we get, and now with the prequels behind it too it seems even more claustrophobic.

Has anyone ever commented on the Tauntaun's head in Jabba's Palace?

J

Well, three locations if you count the Death Star.  But that means that there's only one new location.

Star Wars - Tatooine, Death Star, Yavin IV - all never-before-seen (obviously)

Empire - Hoth, Dagobah, Bespin - all never-before-seen

Jedi - Tatooine, Death Star, Endor's moon - only one never-before-seen

Phantom - Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant - two never-before-seen

Clones - Coruscant, Naboo, Tatooine, Kamino, Geonosis - two never-before-seen

Sith - Coruscant, Tatooine, Utapau, Mustafar, Kashyyyk - three never-before-seen (not counting the few we catch glimpses of in the Order 66 sequence)

Jedi feels very small, indeed.

The Tauntaun heads have already been brought up.

Cheap re-use of old props which has the effect of shrinking the Star Wars universe in my view (talking about scale could you reduce the size of that picture please as it's giving the page a nasty wiggle at that size).

Harmy said:

 

I love how angry he looks! XD Reminds me of Honey Badger -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c81bcjyfn6U

teharri said:

Just putting this link out their for those interested.

 

This site had tons and tons of pictures from everything star wars related. Very nicely done.

 

http://www.starwarsarchives.com/

  

   Thanks for the link :)

   After looking it over, I was reminded that there are three for ESB. destruction, jump away, and fate unknown. We might see the rebel ship and SD pass off-screen, leaving the viewers uncertain and haunted. Then the probe launch. I'm impressed by the quiet, ominous tone those shots create. I'd like to see two such sequences in ESB to foreshadow the "Fate Unknown" conclusion. A similar foreshadowing in AOTC might lead to the same sense in ROTS. If the sabre construction shot is in good condition, it might be used to create a sense of foreboding. The ROTJ star battle is for some action and for creating a sense of real peril.

    To me, these star battles are bound up with their respective crawls. Each scroll seems like it is the same sort of thing in passing. Read them carefully, and they each have a unique character. 4:A ship captured  5:A ship's fate unknown  6:A ship destroyed  1:A ship given passage  2:A ship rescued  3:An immense battle. The idea is to make each seem unique. Now I wonder if each battle should correspond to it's position in it's trilogy. 

   I have enjoyed these star battles. I wanted to give a definitive account of my ideas for them. I'm sure that my 1am, clipped presentation style doesn't convey that very well. :)

thejediknighthusezni, I like your idea of the Bothan ship fleeing the Empire as an action beat to open Jedi. Jedi in its present form does seem to take forever before anything life-and-death happens.

I don't know if you're familiar with ROTJ Fan-o-matic (if not, check it out on youtube) but one of the many excellent ideas was to have Boba Fett given the job of telling the Rebellion about the DS2, including the lie about it not being operational, rather than these Bothans, of whom the audience knows nothing and are never heard about again. Makes sense - aside from giving the Fett something to do, it also means Fett isn't at Jabba's palace and spares us the hideousness of his death scene.

was pondering today at work with endor on the brain.

what if:

• the rebels land on endor at night, with the moonlight shining off the deathstar's face.
• endor is full of dinosaurs and monsters, so the odd shot of a pterodactyle flying and monster moans in the background.
• the ewoks have glowing eyes, and should be regarded more as the 'spirits of the forest' who seem slightly magical.
• the ewoks ambush and kill the scouts enstead of han and chewie, they are united by this event.
• when luke presents himslef to vader the sun is rising, and everything is eerily quiet whilst bathed in orange ("the deep breath before the plunge")
• the bunker battle could have these endorian 'monsters' incorporated. sort of like nature itself is turning against the empire.